ESA - WCA Assessments to be scrapped in future?!

onebigvoice

calcotti said:

Encouraging a return to work has long been government policy. It would be a change if there was more focus on incentives and/or removing disincentives rather than sanctions. However the narrative still seems to be driven by an underlying belief that there are lots of people who are malingering or ‘skiving’.

I agree and have been fighting this for many years.
  A white paper produced by Dr Mike Orton on " How to fix the system" has been produced, ( and has been for more than the 6 years I have been involved with it.)  TWO of the papers were produced in April and August 2022 yet even now have not reached the system.
  They revamped the 2012, 2014, 2018 Social security Act which is still used but the "new paper" goes a step further and closes the loop holes of writing a report and being paid for when no ID or Expertise is shown.  This is only one point.  We will always need an assessment system to get people benefits access in some sort of plan.  Scrapping the old system and saying its not fit for purpose so we are going to do this is wrong.
  The way to go foreword is have accountability.  We know were the problems lie, why are these areas not being re-visited  and revamped even if each area was taken individually, an example.
  Information Gathering.  Who can supply?  What is acceptable?  Does all information from Government departments need to be on headed paper?
  The need for F2F interviews.  Do we need a F2F interview if its a renewal?  Can it be paper based?  Can the claimant have a Zoom or phone interview if they have other issues?   Can the document be sent via a link to fill out?  Can CAB or any one assist in the form filling that should be in plain English and not deal with the same thing worded differently?
  Why is there a need for a MR when the "Expert" filling out or assessing has all the medical information in front of them?   Can the assessor or decision maker override a report written by a Doctor, where the illness is say terminal and the need to check anything is on the DS1500 form?
  All these little tweaks can be resolved, yet once they are highlighted and a resolution is arrived at it is one less thing to have to keep looking at or having to not get the decision right first time for access to benefits. 
  Never scrap the old system without having a better one to put in its place, this is where we are now.
 How many thing that the interview done where the claimant supplies all the information for the benefit he wishes to claim at a Face to Face interview and is dealt with there and then, or at least in a few days where the decision maker WILL CONTACT the people that treat you to check information or REFER IT TO A SPECIALIST IN THAT FIELD, not give the file to say Capita-PIP's who already have the medical evidence on file via your N I and work History.  
  Capita will not supply a specialist except as a  Disability analyst which is not a medical title. 

calcotti

darinfan said:

...  Meanwhile, it's not encouraging someone on ESA to try work for a month or two to see how they get on (maybe that semester of teaching I mentioned), when they then have to go on Universal Credit if it doesn't work out, where they'll get considerably less money than they had before they tried work in the first place.  

For many claimants they would receive more money on UC than on ESA. Those who lose out are those who get a Severe Disability Premium in the ESA. Those without SDP are generally better off.

Because so many ESA claimants would be better off on UC the government has delayed forcing people from ESA to UC until 2028 in the expectation that this will save £2bn.

onebigvoice

As stated they will save £2bn but for those that are struggling now i.e. its 5 YEARS TO 2028, what do you do to get to 2028? 
  Survival it seems is down to the individual, in so much as people who are disabled or people who are on the "sick" are going back to work because there is no support, no treatment plan, no support from the employer or the government to stop going back to work early and compounding the situation later on where injuries have not completely healed.
  The option for anyone to sign off and go back is always down to the individual, but in work most company's have a Health and Safety person or nurse which should be monitoring your progress back into work and would allow changes in working practice to get you back slowly.
  This can be anything from reduced hours with no loss of earnings, and this could also be by training given in other aspects of the company that you would not get if you were still in full time employment, can't walk?  then a job on the till where no heavy lifting is required, or checking in delivery orders or making pickers lists up for others to do.
  Because you are sick or disabled there is always something that would stop the other side of the coin. which is I have been off so long, when I go back people will be looking at me and feel like every one is watching me.
  I have sorted this by making people who are employed by employer that anyone on long term sick will be given other opportunities to get certification for other things so that when back in employment do not have to take time off to attend these courses.
  Also that the support is their for them and it could be them that is off next time?  Employees were valued back then, and investment in their employees gives returns later, and not only monetary value although this was also part of the package.  I could be waiting to get a course put on and have 3 places by in order to run the course it might require 8 to attend.  I would ask other employees internally if they wanted to do the course, and if I could not fill it I had a net work of other employees that I would ask because they may have the same problem filling the course?  They would pay for the number of people they wanted to attend and the course would take place.
  Anything from Health and Safety, to Hydraulics' or even fork Truck Driving.  This is not being done now, all this would help employability, while having a multi skilled work force.
  The Job centre no longer run these courses, as many I have talked to don't attend anything.

calcotti

onebigvoice said:I

As stated they will save £2bn but for those that are struggling now i.e. its 5 YEARS TO 2028, what do you do to get to 2028?

Those that would be better off on UC can claim now and have been able to for the last 4 years. They don’t have to wait until forced. 

poppy123456

calcotti said:

onebigvoice said:I

As stated they will save £2bn but for those that are struggling now i.e. its 5 YEARS TO 2028, what do you do to get to 2028?

Those that would be better off on UC can claim now and have been able to for the last 4 years. They have to wait until forced. 

Typo i think that should be "they don't have to wait"

calcotti

poppy123456 said:

calcotti said:

onebigvoice said:I

As stated they will save £2bn but for those that are struggling now i.e. its 5 YEARS TO 2028, what do you do to get to 2028?

Those that would be better off on UC can claim now and have been able to for the last 4 years. They have to wait until forced. 

Typo i think that should be "they don't have to wait"

Thanks poppy, a rather fundamental typo which completely undermined the post! Have now corrected the original post.

apple85

calcotti said:

tomm said: And Due to this NET ZERO Green nonsense  there will be less employment available 

Green zero could produce many more jobs but the ‘green economy’ hasn’t been able to invest reliably because government policies keep changing so an investment cannot be made with confidence,

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1128689/mission-zero-independent-review.pdf
See section 3

Net zero/green is a whole different issue to this and another example of how the media can influence the minds of many.

Green is certainly not nonsense, it will be 100% vital if the human race wants to continue thriving so to speak (though the fact that we have more humans on this planet that the earth and its eco system was ever meant to sustain isn’t helping either but whole different messy topic and one I know I’m in the minority on)-  this planet will run out of gas and oil eventually even if that wasn’t the case the natural disasters and climate change should be enough of a warming

what I disagree with the govs zero energy plan is they’ve got an unrealistic date to go net zero and they are relying hugely on every household having a hydrogen boiler to do it (significantly more expensive to buy, much less efficient than the current options and I think the energy units may be more pricey than gas also and don’t quote me but more likely to blow up if there’s a fault?) - doing hydrogen well is probably decades off.

Also there are significantly better options for this particular country - tidal, solar and there’s some promising research around the world on new ideas (for example solar panels that can run on moonlight and those that work in overcast weather, and panels that convert the pressure produced by rain into energy - something that could be game changing for a country like the uk)

remember politicians and parties have lots of donors in the oil/gas industries (I don’t think there are many green energy donors - at least not for the Tory party and prehaps labour too) and these politicians have a lot of control over what the media write (and some donors own the media so there’s that) - it’s no surprise that many are scared off net zero but green along with nuclear as a backup and a more realistic timetable is the only way forward

apple85

I think many of us thought that we’d just have to last another 2 years till the next election when hopefully labour would get in and things would improve for the sick/disabled!

So the shadow work & pension minister speaking at an IDS (a man who still gives many of us nightmares) thinktank sprouting almost exactly the same ideas as the tories, taking aim at the most vulnerable (the esa support group) was one hell of a sucker punch - we expect the tories to be cruel towards us but labour doing a similar move is (for me at least) hope destroying

Now starmer could demote ashworth in the meantime (he was already demoted from shadow health secretary), put in someone with common sense and compassion (there’s got to be a few labour mps that tick these boxes) and change track - but if not the millions of citizens with a lifelong or longterm disability/illness and their loved ones need to convince them that a policy that appears to attack us (and/or triggers panic and anxiety) is not the answer to solving this current uk crisis of economics and worker shortage (I believe brexit and covid and bad political decisions is the reason why this country is the reason why this country is in this current mess - many disabled people didn’t get the covid uprate) - there is enough of us to swing an election but not whilst we are divided up and not able to shout loud enough on our own

But the uk population has the highest tolerance and patience of any country I know - any other country there would be riots and prehaps even civil war but as a country we let so much slide. 

Both the public and politicians have forgotten that they are hired by us, we are their bosses, not the other way around

it is a waste of time to try and convince the tories to gain some compassion - but labour are more and more looking like the next government in waiting and there are mp’s in their ranks who I believe would listen to our community.

There is at least 18 months till the next election (can’t see sunak calling an early one) - I feel this is a crossroads, a sink/swim moment, our best opportunity to fight for change if those in control are planning a reform anyway.

one person having a rant is nowhere near enough (we’ll strictly not true - leaders can but need followers) - communication, cooperation, drive and belief is vital!