The future for the disabled claiming UC/ESA, etc - budget march 2023

apple85

apple85

apple85

poppy123456

Isn't this thread supposed to be related to the WCA for UC and ESA? Now it seems to be related to the whole of the budget. You've lost me completely here with so many comments related to something completely different.

Becky93

3.19 seems incredibly vague how it will work in practice. So many questions, like when will this happen, what will happen to existing people on LCWRWA and PIP, how will the money work so you aren't getting significantly less money.

Also from experience work coaches will need significant training to be able to even start to try to find people appropriate work, as from experience work coaches simply have no understanding of many conditions. It's one thing saying hypothetically I could work if it was from home, tailored to my needs and understanding I wouldn't be able to work every day, but in practice where do you find a job that will fit that description. Work coaches are often just box ticking, and taking a broad approach that doesn't apply to specific conditions.

This is especially true given right now the assessments would need significant changes to be able to accurately help work coaches, and I don't really believe such changes will be achieved, as the true motives are likely very different.

Ray212

poppy123456 said:

Isn't this thread supposed to be related to the WCA for UC and ESA? Now it seems to be related to the whole of the budget. You've lost me completely here with so many comments related to something completely different.

I thought it covered everything as the title was - The future for the disabled claiming UC/ESA, etc - budget march 2023

apple85

I’m posting anything that could relate to how the budget will affect the disabled/sick going forward

the scrapping of the wca is the big thing right now but not the only thing

i think the over 50s stuff is relevant as many of that group are in the sick/disabled group

ive also included stuff on employers and what help they’d be getting to hire the long term sick as that indirectly effects us to

im very quickly skimming through the budget pdf - I imagine the rest of you will pick out the details most relevant

apple85

Cher_Alumni

@apple85 Thanks for being on the ball with this.

We've posted a link to the Health and disability white paper on this thread which digs deeper into proposed benefits changes.

Ray212

Transitional protection

156. The degree of change in our proposals will require primary legislation, which we would aim to take forward in a new Parliament when parliamentary time allows. These reforms would then be rolled out, to new claims only, on a staged, geographical basis from no earlier than 2026/27. We would expect the new claims roll-out to be completed within three years (so by 2029 at the earliest), when we would then begin to move the existing caseload on to the new system.

Jonnyc

From the Benefits and Work website:

New UC Health Element

The UC LCWRA element will be replaced with a new UC health element for claimants getting UC standard allowance and any PIP element.  Paid at same rate as LCWRA element.

"Landmark reforms to the benefits system will change the emphasis from what people can’t do, to what they can, by legislating to remove the Work Capability Assessment (WCA) so that in future there is only one health and disability assessment – the Personal Independent Payment (PIP) assessment.

"This will mean there will be no need to be found to have limited capability for work and limited capability to prepare for work to get additional income-related support for a disability or health condition – reducing the worry claimants currently experience that they will lose their benefits following a reassessment.

"We will replace the current Universal Credit Limited Capability for Work and Work Related Activity (LCWRA) financial top up with a new UC health element. This will be awarded to people who are receiving the UC standard allowance and any PIP element. The award rate of the new UC health element will be set equal to the current award to those people that have LCWRA, ensuring there is a safety net in place for the most vulnerable."

apple85

worried33 said:

Now we know there is to be a fitness to work assessment in its place.

I found no reference to a fitness to work assessment as a replacement

from what I understand so far it looks like the goal is to scrap all of the disability elements of uc (the LCWRA and LCW) and merge this with PIP as the sole way to get financial help for illness and disability 

It looks like esa won’t be effected initially as we are all transferring over to uc anyway so it looks like those currently on uc will be the Guinea peas so to speak (a theory only)

also it looks like everyone on uc or esa who are not in receipt of pip already need to apply for PIP asap to get the jump and charities will need to up help in filling these out and increasing success rates - we need to help one another

the other thing is that if the disability element will no longer exist on uc so everyone on uc will be playing the same rules that would mean everyone on uc would have to sign the claimant commitment (aka everyone has to work or look for work) unless there are exemptions yet to be revealed 

Becky93

Seems pretty important in the context of the thread. Some of the theory isn't terrible, like combining WCA and PIP into one assessment, the implementation will almost certainly be terrible though. I have no faith in work coaches being able to appropriately undertake what is listed here.

This also makes the system sound like it will be awful for those who end up at tribunal, as you will likely get work coaches pestering you for months asking you to do things you say you can't do, but their inadequate assessment says you can.

Ray212

Honestly I think its worse after the reforms are done. Looks like the work coaches will be able to tell you what you can and can't do so work coaches will now become medical experts? Happy to be corrected

159. This change means that in the future there will only be one health and disability functional assessment: the PIP assessment. People in receipt of PIP and UC will receive the new health element. The key change will be in UC, where instead of the WCA, people in receipt of PIP and UC will receive the new UC health element. In place of the WCA, we propose to introduce a new personalised health conditionality approach that will provide more personalised levels of conditionality and employment support, with the aim of helping people to reach their potential and live a more independent life.

160. We will use this opportunity to build greater levels of trust between DWP and the people who use our services, by reducing the assessment burden that people currently face. We want to introduce a more tailored approach, to allow work coaches to build a relationship with an individual and determine what, if any, work-related activities an individual can participate in. This also means that where work or work-related-activity is not possible or appropriate for someone, they will not be expected to participate in these activities to receive their benefit entitlement.

161. Our new approach will mean both voluntary and mandatory work-related requirements may be set for health and disability benefit claimants, where this is appropriate, with requirements added at a pace that is appropriate for the individual.

Ray212

apple85 said:

worried33 said:

Now we know there is to be a fitness to work assessment in its place.

I found no reference to a fitness to work assessment as a replacement

from what I understand so far it looks like the goal is to scrap all of the disability elements of uc (the LCWRA and LCW) and merge this with PIP as the sole way to get financial help for illness and disability 

I am not sure about the merging bit as the white paper says : 

Keeping PIP and UC separate

163. We will keep PIP and UC separate following concerns from the Green Paper consultation that the two benefits would be merged. Although only people who receive both PIP and UC will access the new UC health element, PIP will remain a benefit people receive whether they are in or out of work. PIP will not be means-tested and will stay separate from UC. This means that PIP will continue to provide support to cover some of the additional costs associated with having a health condition or disability, irrespective of a person’s income.

164. The new UC health element, which will be available to people who receive both PIP and the UC Standard Allowance, will remain an income-related benefit to provide income replacement for those on low incomes and with the most severe health conditions.

apple85

Ray212 said:

Transitional protection

156. The degree of change in our proposals will require primary legislation, which we would aim to take forward in a new Parliament when parliamentary time allows. These reforms would then be rolled out, to new claims only, on a staged, geographical basis from no earlier than 2026/27. We would expect the new claims roll-out to be completed within three years (so by 2029 at the earliest), when we would then begin to move the existing caseload on to the new system.

Well that’s good new at least - plenty of time to prepare and put things in place (and an election result potentially changing everything anyway)

Votadini

For those of us with mental health conditions who don't qualify for PIP this is absolutely shocking news. If what's contained in that white paper comes to pass tens of thousands of mentally ill people will find themselves classed as fit for work by the benefit system and treated as ordinary claimants.

Becky93

apple85 said:

worried33 said:

Now we know there is to be a fitness to work assessment in its place.

I found no reference to a fitness to work assessment as a replacement

from what I understand so far it looks like the goal is to scrap all of the disability elements of uc (the LCWRA and LCW) and merge this with PIP as the sole way to get financial help for illness and disability 

It looks like esa won’t be effected initially as we are all transferring over to uc anyway so it looks like those currently on uc will be the Guinea peas so to speak (a theory only)

also it looks like everyone on uc or esa who are not in receipt of pip already need to apply for PIP asap to get the jump and charities will need to up help in filling these out and increasing success rates - we need to help one another

the other thing is that if the disability element will no longer exist on uc so everyone on uc will be playing the same rules that would mean everyone on uc would have to sign the claimant commitment (aka everyone has to work or look for work) unless there are exemptions yet to be revealed 

Won't the guinea pigs not be those already on UC LCWRA, it sounds like they will be the new applicants for it.

barton85

I get lcwra element but not pip feel like this news will be a real problem for me 

Becky93

Votadini said:

For those of us with mental health conditions who don't qualify for PIP this is absolutely shocking news. If what's contained in that white paper comes to pass tens of thousands of mentally ill people will find themselves classed as fit for work by the benefit system and treated as ordinary claimants.

This is why the PIP system will have to change to some degree, otherwise this isn't remotely fit for purpose. As while you can get PIP for mental health conditions, the system is unbelievable favoured towards physical health conditions. Indeed the descriptor tables the assessors use don't even mention mental issues undertaking or completing any of the tasks.

The WCA already has this problem to some extent, with PIP it's even worse though.