Less than a week till PIP tribunal…

Elliebellikins

I’m an appointee for my sister who has a mental health condition (bipolar) and cannot manage her own affairs through no fault of her own. She had worked for 22 years at a very mental health supportive company, it was low paid, very gentle and not remotely taxing work. She wasn’t great at it, but they were very tolerant and gave her lots of reassurance, just as we all did at home to encourage her to go. Living at home with our parents, it was her life. The company changed hands just before Covid and she was out the door on the grounds of capability shortly after. She is still reeling from it now. 

I was able to sort her ESA allowance last year, for which she gets the higher support group rate and I applied for PIP for her at the same time (2021). During the PIP assessment phone call my sister was really stressed and anxious and gave some really delusional answers to the questions, that me and my mum were on hand to gently explain how things actually were. It was very difficult as my sister gets very hung up on what people may think of her, as well as having psychosis which is impossible to know when this is happening unless she says or does something really out of sync with what is actually happening. She also cannot cope with any kind of criticism and for her, the entire PIP process has felt like a massive investigation into all her faults, many of the things that she struggles with, she isn’t even aware of most of the time. The phone assessment was 4 hours long. She got angry, she cried, if she could have glared me and mum to death I think she would have. We were really gentle too as we knew the fall out after the phone call was going to be bad. There many extra relevant things we didn’t even mention, as we felt it would cause her too much harm/distress to hear. The assessor got very mixed up with all our comments, often taking my sisters first answers which mum and I disproved / disagreed with and disregarded most of what we had said. In her notes, the assessor considered awarding my sister full awards in both living and mobility sections, but changed her mind on all areas due to the same 10 reasons, which were all assumptions or just plain incorrect. She was awarded zero points across the board. 

My sister was devastated. She felt like they had decided that she didn’t have a mental health condition and that the last 27 years of her life had been a massive struggle for her because, well according to them, for no reason at all. 

I went through the MR route and the DWP just rejected it each time. I used the assessment report, to submit another report stating where she should have been awarded marks, how each of their 10 main reasons to reject her from meeting the criteria were incorrect (things like they said she isn’t on any tranquillisers - when she is on very strong tranquillisers, they were listed all through her initial reports and in her repeat prescription list evidence) and a supporting Doctors letter (which all the gov website advice at that point had specifically said not to get, as the doctors will charge you - the website guides were updated a couple of months later), which clearly supported her claim, him having been my sisters GP and mental health consultant for 27 years. But again zero points. 

I applied for the appeal back in October I think, signing up for text alerts as I didn’t want to miss anything after putting all this work into it and I 100% think my sister deserves to get the PIP. My parents, my husband and I are financially supporting her for what the ESA doesn’t cover, but it’s been such a strain. Citizens Advice allocated someone to support me and give me advice, but they phone just before Christmas to say they don’t do that anymore, but I could still text them if I had any questions. This whole process has been overwhelming, how on earth someone with mental health issues is supposed to do this themselves is beyond me.

I was away from home with work for 3 weeks, which I informed the courts about, but came home Tuesday to find the tribunal hearing is next Wednesday. It will be great to get it over with, but I haven’t told my sister to save her the stress and anxiety about it. It just doesn’t leave me much time to prepare a statement and I think I’ve already missed the minimum 7 day window to get it in before the hearing.

I very much hope the hearing will go in her favour, so long as I don’t mess it up somehow, then I can just tell her about it once the decision is made.

Thank you for letting me vent.

Elliebellikins

Sorry, it should say ‘mental health supportive company’ at the beginning. The company was great at the start, they worked closely with a mental health charity that helped people getting over mental health episodes (or nervous breakdowns as they were referred to back then) get back into the workplace. Her wages were initially paid for by a government scheme until she was taken on full time. But she would never have been able to manage the job if it wasn’t for our mum, going in with her every day to start with, then just dropping her off and picking her up, speaking to her every couple of hours to reassure her or us going to collect her if she was having a bad day. 

Alex_Alumni

Thanks for sharing @Elliebellikins and fingers crossed the tribunal gets your sister the outcome you're hoping for! And you're welcome to vent, do let us know how things go  

If we can help support you in the meantime, just let us know.

poppy123456

Is the hearing in person or by telephone/video? Either way you need to make sure your sister is with you for this.

I always find letters from a GP not the best evidence to send because they don't spend any time with you to see how you manage to the 12 activities for the descriptors. You are correct that it maybe a little too late to send any extra evidence now, that should be have done well in advance of the hearing.

During the hearing you'll be asked questions about her health condition and how it affects her. If you don't understand the question asked then ask them to repeat it. They are completely impartial to DWP so that's a good thing because they will be a lot more understanding. Good luck for that.

I note that she's claiming ESA, which you claimed for her last year so it must be New style ESA. Have you looked at claiming UC for her, providing she doesn't have savings/capital of more than £16,000?

Her ESA will continue as normal but be deducted in full from any UC entitlement. As she's in the Support Group then she'll be entitled to the LCWRA element from the start of her claim. UC and LCWRA pays more than ESA Support Group and it will also entitle her to the cost of living payments, as well as being entitled to free NHS treatment. There's some information here what UC is. https://www.gov.uk/universal-credit

If you do claim this for her and she's unable to manage her own claim then you can become her appointee. Your appointeeship for her PIP will not cover her for UC. Once you claim you can put a message onto her journal and ask to become her appointee. Everything will then be sorted for you and you will have full control.

Cher_Alumni

Welcome @Elliebellikins to our online community, it's fab that you found us. How are you today?

I just wanted to say what an utterly brilliantly supportive sister you sound . It's clear you're very attuned to your sister's needs and ways of thinking, and to have you on her side throughout this is a blessing. I'm just sorry it's not gone your way up to press.

If you think of any questions leading up to the tribunal that we can help with, please do ask. In the meantime, I've moved your thread to our PIP, DLA and AA category and send you all the best of luck.

Elliebellikins

Thank you for your support and advice Alex, Poppy and Cher. 

The tribunal is in person, but I intend to go alone as her appointee as we really don’t think she could cope with the stress of it all. The telephone assessor was sympathetic and patient with my sister, but she was so unwell and unbalanced from it that I wished I hadn’t started the PIP so she didn’t have to go through that. 

She is already very unsteady at the moment and she keeps asking my parents if they want her to leave home. Our parents and I agreed that we’d rather keep struggling than risk putting her in that situation again. 

If it doesn’t go in her favour, I will try the route that Poppy suggested with UC. But I’ll get the tribunal over and done with first. 

poppy123456

I'd advise you to contact HMCTS to ask if you can attend without your sister. I wouldn't want you to just attend without her and for the hearing to be adjourned if she isn't there and was supposed to be there.

Elliebellikins

Hi Poppy, thanks for all the really helpful advice. I did go without her in the end, as she was wasn’t coping well at all. I was in there less than 5 minutes and they said they’d read through all my documents and if I was in agreement they’d award my sister the enhanced living allowance and the standard mobility allowance. Embarrassingly I burst into tears and just about managed to say yes please, that would be wonderful! 

I couldn’t believe it - that’s exactly what I’d asked for! I’m so pleased for my sister, I don’t think it has sunk in yet for her, but it will make such a difference to her life and my parents who have been really struggling to support her on their pensions. 

Fingers crossed the DWP don’t challenge it, but if they do I guess we’ll just go back and talk through all the things I had planned to at the hearing. 

Even so, it is a massive weight off my shoulders.

Elliebellikins

Hi Poppy, thanks for all the really helpful advice. I did go without her in the end, as she was wasn’t coping well at all. I was in there less than 5 minutes and they said they’d read through all my documents and if I was in agreement they’d award my sister the enhanced living allowance and the standard mobility allowance. Embarrassingly I burst into tears and just about managed to say yes please, that would be wonderful! 

I couldn’t believe it - that’s exactly what I’d asked for! I’m so pleased for my sister, I don’t think it has sunk in yet for her, but it will make such a difference to her life and my parents who have been really struggling to support her on their pensions. 

Fingers crossed the DWP don’t challenge it, but if they do I guess we’ll just go back and talk through all the things I had planned to at the hearing. 

Even so, it is a massive weight off my shoulders.

Lou67

@Elliebellikins
Oh that’s great news I’m so pleased for yous. Iv been reading your thread there, your a great support to your sister it’s lovely to read. So glad she has you and your parents to help and support her.

Take care ❤️

Hannah_Alumni

That's such great news @Elliebellikins I'm so happy for your sister, it does sound like a huge weight lifted! 

poppy123456

Great news. It's rare for them to appeal a Tribunal decision. They sometimes request the statement of reasons but requesting this doesn't mean they are appealing. It can take up to 8 weeks to receive any money that's owed.

Elliebellikins

Thank you Lou, Hannah and Poppy  That’s good to know, I thought they said it would be Monday, but I was probably too stunned to take in anymore info at that point!

Alex_Alumni

Lovely news to catch up on @Elliebellikins I hope you're all enjoying the weekend