Hi, my name is Toby2007! Has anyone received PIP for being deaf in both ears?

Toby2007 · May 2023

Hi does anyone one know if they have received pip for been profoundly deaf in both ears

Hannah_Alumni · May 2023

Hello @Toby2007

Welcome to the community!

The GOV website says:

Personal Independence Payment (PIP) can help with extra living costs if you have both:
a long-term physical or mental health condition or disability
difficulty doing certain everyday tasks or getting around because of your condition
You can get PIP even if you’re working, have savings or are getting most other benefits.

Are you looking to apply for PIP for yourself or help on behalf of someone else?

Toby2007 · May 2023

I have already applied for it hoping I get it as my hearing is bad even with hearing aids my partner as do help me alot

yorkiegirl · May 2023

Hi I applied for pip in January.I have severe hearing loss in left ear and mild hearing loss in my left ear.I wear hearing aids but do struggle at times especially with background noise when trying to follow a conversation.I have just had my letter back.I was awarded 2 points my claim was turned down.I was hoping to get some advice from other people who have had the same experience with their claim.

faraway_21 · May 2023

Hi, I’ve also applied for PIP for my hearing loss. I wear hearing aids in both ears and it’s severe according to my audiology report. It impacts my life quite significantly and require some support to navigate day to day tasks. What evidence did you provide? What did they award the 2 points for? Also how long did they take to come back to you?

Toby2007 · May 2023

I only sent my form of 2 weeks ago
I struggle every day I can't use a phone I can't follow a conversation I can't hear alarms I can't mix with people as I can't follow what they say I won't go anywhere am very limited my partner has to help me all the time I won't go to new places as I get panicky as I can't hear whats going on or if I have to ask for directions
Did you have to have a consultation? I have been told I should get pip by my auidoligy

poppy123456 · May 2023

Most people have assessments, which are mostly by telephone, though i do understand that would be very difficult for you. You can ask for a face to face assessment at an assessment centre near you, if they send a telephone appointment.

faraway_21 · May 2023

Same, i’m just worried if I’ve given enough information to satisfy the descriptors. I applied 5 weeks ago, hopefully should be contacted for an assessment soon. Did you send a copy of your audiology report?

yanni · June 2023

I have severe- profound hearing loss and wear two hearing aids. The first time I applied for PIP I got 2 points for needing a hearing aid. I went to tribunal and ended up with a standard award for both mobility and daily living. After applying again in 2021 I now get an enhanced award for both mobility and daily living.

The best advice I had was to provide real life examples of the difficulties I have communicating and doing the other activities even when wearing my hearing aids.

Explain what you thought was said if you could understand any of it and then what happened?

Did you have to ask for it to be repeated? How many times?

Could you eventually understand what was said or did you give up?

Did someone else have to step in and help you?

Did you ask for the speaker to write it down?

Was there background noise?

Could you lipread the speaker? Were they looking at you / Could you see their face? What was the impact of not being able to understand them e.g. I left without buying what I came in for because I couldn’t understand the shop assistant, I ended up paying more than I thought they said because I misheard them, I didn’t hear the bus approaching and so I missed it etc.

You can send in extra information at any point in the PIP process - before the decision is made, at the mandatory reconsideration MR stage if you do not agree with the original decision and at tribunal if you don’t agree with the MR decision.

Give a couple of examples of the difficulties you have faced for each activity (except the washing and bathing activity)

Daily living - Activity 7: Communicating verbally

Think about:

When you have ignored someone because you don’t realise they are talking to you ( e.g. your partner tells you they’ve been calling you or someone you don’t know is talking to you and someone else has to point out this out to you)

Or when you think someone is talking to you but they are talking to someone else (or are speaking to someone on their mobile phone).

When you think you heard something correctly but later realise or someone tells you that you misheard / misunderstood.

When you can’t catch part of what is being said despite the speaker repeating it.

When you are not sure quite what was said (e.g. did they say ‘ family memories’ or ‘funny memories’?)

When what you hear is total nonsense and despite the speaker repeating it you give up and just nod, smile, say OK etc and hope that is the appropriate response.

Think about what happens if the speaker isn’t there to repeat what was said, such as a tannoy announcement or someone unexpectedly said something but they have moved on by the time you realise or think that they were speaking to you and that you don’t know what they said.

Think about what happens when there is background noise ( other people speaking, traffic, music, radio, TV, crockery, equipment).

Think about what happens when the speaker is too far away from you for you to understand them (but at a distance that someone with normal hearing would be able to understand the speaker at).

Think about what happens when you are standing up and the speaker is sitting down or vice versa.

Do you have particular difficulty with male voices, female voices, elderly voices, children’s voices?

Lipreading is not considered a reliable way to understand verbal communication. So if you struggle to understand people on the phone and / or if they are not looking at you this suggests you may rely on lipreading to understand speech.

Think about what happens when the speaker has their back to you, is behind you or to your side or is on the phone or over a tannoy.

Do you have problems understanding people with an unfamiliar accent?

What happens if there is a physical obstruction between you and the speaker / the speaker’s mouth / lips (a face mask, a computer screen, a security screen, a cup, a hand etc )?

This one is really important as PIP requires that you can do an activity reliably and if you need to lipread to understand what is said then you can’t do it reliably and so should be awarded points for needing communication support.

Daily living - Activity 4: Washing and bathing

You can get 2 points for washing and bathing if your hearing loss is such that you wouldn’t hear a smoke alarm if you need to remove your hearing aids when washing and bathing as this means you can’t bathe safety without either an aid or appliance such as a flashing smoke alarm or supervision so that person can alert you if the smoke alarm goes off.

For this activity you need to explain what your hearing loss is like without your hearing aids in. A smoke alarm sounds at about 85 decibels. I subtracted my hearing loss ( for example 60 decibels) and looked up online what the remaining 25 decibels would sound like (sound of breathing 1 metre away) to demonstrate how quiet a smoke alarm is to me when I am not wearing my hearing aids.

Obviously if you have had an experience of not hearing a smoke alarm you can use this but you don’t need to have experienced it to be awarded 2 points because it is a safety risk with a potential for serious harm.

This link explains the Upper Tribunal decisions about not being able to hear a smoke alarm because you have to remove your hearing aids to wash and bathe:

https://pipinfo.net/activities/washing-and-bathing

Daily living - Activity 9: Engaging with other people face to face

If your hearing loss makes it difficult to engage with other people you can get points for Activity 9: You can’t get points here for not being able to hear what people are saying as this is covered under the verbal communication activity. You can get points if your hearing loss makes you anxious about engaging with people because you worry about mishearing what is said and responding inappropriately or that you will repeat what someone else has already said or any of the other pitfalls that come with trying to engage with people when you have hearing loss.

Mobility - Activity 1: Planning and following journeys

You can get 10 or 12 points here if you need someone with you on a familiar or unfamiliar route because if your hearing loss is such that, even with your hearing aids in, you can’t rely on your hearing to hear approaching traffic which is out of your line of sight (e.g. round a corner, over a hill, behind you in a car park or on a road with no pavement or concealed by other parked or moving vehicles or fences, buildings etc) .

Or if you can’t understand tannoy announcements, bus drivers and/ or people you don’t know etc, you can be awarded 10 or 12 points because you would have difficulty sorting yourself out and working out how to get to your intended destination. Bear in mind that public transport is usually noisy so background noise may affect how well you can understand people at train stations, on buses etc.

Give examples of near misses with traffic because you haven’t heard or seen it coming.

It is unlikely to make any difference whether the route is familiar or unfamiliar as you can’t hear the traffic approaching whether it is on the way to the corner shop or somewhere you have never been before so the safety risk is the same for both.

Give examples of problems sorting yourself out if your planned journey changes unexpectedly (e.g. not hearing an announcement about a change of platform and missing your train or not hearing that the bus is on diversion / terminating early) and ending up somewhere unexpected, or buying the wrong ticket and not being able to communicate well enough to sort out how to get to your intended destination.

Length of award

As it is unlikely that your hearing loss will improve it is important to explain this and ask for an ongoing award. An ongoing award is for 10 years. Say how long you have had hearing loss for and if it has got worse or stayed the same since then. Otherwise you will be awarded a shorter award and have to go through applying again in a few years.

If you need hearing aids but can’t wear them (for example if your hearing is too poor to benefit from a hearing aid or the hearing aid just makes things more distorted) you need to explain why you don’t wear hearing aids. Otherwise they will assume you would be able to hear if you used a hearing aid and award just 2 points.

Remember with PIP it is the help that you need to do these activities reliably that is important, not the help that you have. If you need someone to help you understand what is being said, to engage with other people, know that the smoke alarm is going off, cross a road safety or sort out unexpected changes to your planned route it doesn’t matter that you don’t actually have that help in real life.

faraway_21 · June 2023

@yianni31 thank you so much for the detailed response. This has given me reassurance and clarity around the type of evidence of real life examples I need to provide. Did you have a paper based assessment?

yanni · June 2023

@faraway_21 I did have a paper based assessment but this was during the early days of lockdown and I think the only options then were a phone assessment or paper based assessment. I don't think they were doing assessments by video at the time.
I said on the PIP form that I couldn't use the phone for long periods and asked them to use text relay as a 'reasonable adjustment under the Equality Act' but they did a paper based assessment instead. The first time I applied (pre-covid) I had a face to face at an assessment centre.

Capita, one of the assessment providers, do video assessments which might be easier for you than the phone as you can see the assessor. I am not sure about IAS / Atos but their website has a bit about video assessments. If / when you do get an assessment date you can contact the assessment provider and request a video assessment or a face to face assessment as a reasonable adjustment.

https://www.capita-pip.co.uk/en/assessment-process/videoassess#Video1

https://www.mypipassessment.co.uk/your-assessment/at-your-pip-consultation/

Dougal1970 · June 2023

I wear a Baha and got a letter from my audiologist and had a paper assessment. I scored 2 points for washing and bathing and 12 points for communication, giving me enhanced daily living. I scored 10 points for following and planning a journey giving me standard mobility. I have been claiming since last year

faraway_21 · June 2023

Dougal1970 said:

I wear a Baha and got a letter from my audiologist and had a paper assessment. I scored 2 points for washing and bathing and 12 points for communication, giving me enhanced daily living. I scored 10 points for following and planning a journey giving me standard mobility. I have been claiming since last year

This is really helpful - did they see you in person? I’ve sent my audiology report as evidence and detailed description of how my condition impacts me.. the thought of an assessment is making me very nervous

Dougal1970 · June 2023

@faraway_21
I didn’t have to see anyone for an assessment it was done on the evidence I provided. I did exactly the same as you, sent evidence from my audiologist and a detailed description of how it affects me. Fingers crossed you’ll hear from them soon

summersunflower · July 1

hi,

i've just come across this thread and am hoping you will see this.

I am currently looking into applying for PIP due to significant hearing loss and am just wondering what evidence you sent from your audiologist please? I have my hearing test results, otoscopy, tympanometry and audiometry findings and am just wondering what other evidence i will need to send from them?

@Dougal1970 and @yanni I can see you have been super helpful so any tips would be greatly appreciated :)

yanni · July 3

@summersunflower

The hearing test results etc will confirm your level of hearing loss. I also sent in a letter from the audiologist which explained the difficulties that someone with my level of hearing loss is likely to have (background noise, quiet speaker, not always possible to lipread etc, distance from speaker etc) even when wearing hearing aids and explaining that hearing aids don’t restore my hearing to normal.

If you wear hearing aids the DWP will assess the difficulties you have whilst wearing your hearing aids.

If you have tried hearing aids and they don’t help or make understanding speech more difficult then you need to explain this to the DWP. In this case it would probably be worth getting something from the audiologist to explain this.

The most important thing is to give a couple of detailed real life examples of the difficulties you have experienced for each PIP activity that is relevant to you. What were you doing? Where? Who was involved? What difficulties did you have? Why? What did you do to try to overcome these difficulties? What was the outcome? If you couldn’t resolve the difficulties what were the consequences of this?

Something like: I wanted to buy X but in the shop someone else was talking nearby and I couldn’t understand the sales assistant was asking. I told them I couldn’t hear very well and asked them to repeat what they said but I still couldn’t understand them. In the end I said thank you and left. As a result I couldn’t buy the X I came for.

summersunflower · July 4

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/707903#Comment_707903

@faraway_21 can i ask how you got on? i'm just at the beginning like you were and super nervous about it all

summersunflower · July 4

summersunflower · July 4

Thank you,

I am borderline moderate/severe hearing loss in both ears (right improving with high pitch, left decreasing with low tones) and am awaiting a referral for 2 hearing aids. - so i don't know yet how hearing aids will help, will this matter with the assessment?

It does affect my everyday life (more than i realised) i think having the hearing test just confirmed it for me that i'm not going mad and after speaking to my mum she said when i was younger i always used to be on the edge of a group conversation, never involved, she always used to explain to everyone that i can't hear well but kids don't get it. and its still the same now. i've just over time learnt how to avoid or adapt.

i avoid making phone calls unless i'm in a room on my own where i know i wont be disturbed and i know i can have it on max volume. i don't answer the phone if its someone i don't know

i rarely go out on my own, i will wait until someone is free to come with me. wind, rain, traffic all affects how much i can hear.

i drive but again with someone with me unless is a very short known journey (ie mums 5 minutes away) and always have air con/heating off as it affects my awareness (again realising these little adaptations i do)

i've lost most of my friends (realising now its because i always avoid 'group situations' going out etc so slowly but surely they've faded away)

in the shower, i need to wear ear plugs as i have 2 perforated ear drums so always make sure someone is home

Constantly mis hearing things or saying pardon, accidently making the wrong remark when someone says something as i thought i heard something else. so again unless its my family who i know and know about my problems, i avoid conversations unless someone is there for me to say 'what did they say' and they kind of chip in to make it not awkward.

i don't really know what i'm saying, i think i just need someone to say yes its worth applying or no, don't waste your time, i don't think things are bad enough to qualify.

evidence wise, i've got my hearing test result and confirmation from my audiologist that both ear drums are perforated and conductive hearing loss in both ears. is that enough along with my written information?

summersunflower · July 4

I just typed a huge long reply and it got deleted :(

I have borderline moderate/severe hearing loss in both ears. left being worse with low tones right improving slightly with high pitches.

i am awaiting a referral for hearing aids in both ears. (will this affect the assessment the fact i don't have these yet as i don't know if they will help hearing or not)?

Its affected me more than i realised and i think having the hearing test after all these years has just confirmed it for me that i'm not going mad and i've just got really good at avoiding situations or adapting.

even after speaking to my mum she said that when i was younger i was always on the edge of the group of kids, never really joined in. she explained that i couldn't hear properly, but kids don't understand do they. and its the same now, i avoid all group situations unless i absolutely have to and then i will have to have someone with me who understands and can repeat what's been said or fill in for me so its not awkward.

mis hearing things, is something i always do, i try and fill in the gaps, or if we go to a busy place, ie shop i'm often saying 'what did they say' or look to my family who is next to me and they just know i haven't heard. again to avoid that situation as much as possible, i get shopping delivered weekly (another thing i've done without realising until now thats why)

i rarely go out on my own, 95% of the time someone will come with me as wind, rain, traffic noise depends how much or little i can hear. i drive but again most of the time someone will come with me, i don't have air con or heating on as it affects my awareness and i can get panicky. i will drive to somewhere i know (ie mums 5 minutes away). i wouldn't drive anywhere new alone.

i've lost the majority of my friends and i now think this is down to me totally avoiding going out to group situations so me always saying no means i've slowly but surely been dropped.

i need to wear ear plugs in the shower as i have 2 perforated ear drums and so i always make sure someone is home.

i avoid making phone calls unless i'm in a room on my own with phone on max volume. i don't answer calls i don't know.

i don't really know what i want from typing this apart from someone saying yes its worth applying, or no it doesn't affect you enough don't waste your time?

summersunflower · July 4