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Wibbles said: What should be done about the situation?
WelshBlue said: A pay rise is all well and good - no problems with that. It's the extra demands that cause the issue for me with all railway workers.No compulsory redundancies, free travel for family members, improved pensions etc.Why should the public pay through the nose for their tickets, sometimes not really being able to afford them, when others are going free just because a family member works on the railways ?But it's all opinions thankfully we're still allowed them
EffinMuppet said: I'm going to take the middle ground here - I think train drivers (not sure about ALL rail workers!) do a very difficult job; I think they're job may be like air traffic control workers in that they're only allowed to work so many hours a week because it's deemed so stressful and they have to be fresh to concentrate (I may be wrong!), and they have to deal with suicides on the track, the grumpy public and we'd go mad if they made a mistake at work and killed people. I think their wages are fair and they earn what they get. That said, in changing times ALL areas of work have to reform, some jobs (sadly) just DO become obsolete - you can't expect people to run a company in an archaic, unproductive, cost inducing and inefficient way because you don't want to change any of it. I grew up with the miners' strike - who would have known then that we'd now be trying to ban fossil fuels altogether?! I really feel for anyone who's job might be on the line but most of these organisations should be able to try to find their workers alternative roles within the system. We all sometimes have to re invent ourselves and go with the flow - AND I'M AN AUTISTIC PERSON!!! Even I realise it's just not realistic to expect everything to stay the same or how you want it forever. It'd be nice, but it's never going to happen. Progress can be cruel and no one's business is a charity. (But I don't have sympathy with the operators either because the train services are rubbish!). And no one wants less or different hours, but if they can manage on it then maybe just don't be too greedy - everyone's struggling. And if they CAN'T manage on it then that's where the Unions need to step in and make sure workers whose jobs change don't lose out or they get compensated. I agree that there are alot of rich people getting away with murder but I don't think that's going to change if the rich people getting away with murder are making the rules because turkeys don't vote for Christmas. And I say that about ALL politicians of every creed, but also other rich folk and system-dodgers. But as we cannot change it I think the general population just has to be less demanding (if it can) of what there is when the resources aren't being given out. I agree with nurses getting more pay but I don't agree with sick people dying and car parks full of ambulances to make the point. Whenever these spats occur only the public lose out - politicians couldn't care less if there's no train because they can pay for something else on expenses and they don't have to queue in a hospital corridor if they've got private medical insurance. I think the strikes are pointless. Yes, you can stir up public feeling and have us all rioting on the streets but nobody cares what we think anyway, they'll just shut the door of number ten, put policemen outside and say 'Very snug!'. As the general population it seems we can only rely on each other, not those in charge, so I think it's up to every one of us to only take what we need although any 'spare' is likely to go in the pockets of those who don't need it so I think we've become reliant on charities, funded by philanthropic kind people in the public space, to sort everything now. Food banks, neighbours, hoping your bank understands, pro bono lawyers, a local business - it's kind of ended up a 'sort it out yourself' society, so we all need to be kinder, less greedy, more generous, more flexible, more understanding, more HUMANE. And that sometimes means not having everything you want so that someone worse off can get what they need. Which might be as simple as a train to get to their minimum wage job.
woodbine said: The disputes are not all about pay far more than that, however with inflation at 30 years high then people want more money simple as that really and I hope they continue to strike until they get it, and I include NHS staff in that as well.Since the railways were privatised they have just gotten worse, four of them so bad that the govt. has had to re-nationalise them again.We are all now paying the price for Tory austerity hopefully we will now have learnt the lesson and vote anything but Tory in 2024.
woodbine said: Wibbles said: EffinMuppet said: I'm going to take the middle ground here - I think train drivers (not sure about ALL rail workers!) do a very difficult job; I think they're job may be like air traffic control workers in that they're only allowed to work so many hours a week because it's deemed so stressful and they have to be fresh to concentrate (I may be wrong!), and they have to deal with suicides on the track, the grumpy public and we'd go mad if they made a mistake at work and killed people. I think their wages are fair and they earn what they get. That said, in changing times ALL areas of work have to reform, some jobs (sadly) just DO become obsolete - you can't expect people to run a company in an archaic, unproductive, cost inducing and inefficient way because you don't want to change any of it. I grew up with the miners' strike - who would have known then that we'd now be trying to ban fossil fuels altogether?! I really feel for anyone who's job might be on the line but most of these organisations should be able to try to find their workers alternative roles within the system. We all sometimes have to re invent ourselves and go with the flow - AND I'M AN AUTISTIC PERSON!!! Even I realise it's just not realistic to expect everything to stay the same or how you want it forever. It'd be nice, but it's never going to happen. Progress can be cruel and no one's business is a charity. (But I don't have sympathy with the operators either because the train services are rubbish!). And no one wants less or different hours, but if they can manage on it then maybe just don't be too greedy - everyone's struggling. And if they CAN'T manage on it then that's where the Unions need to step in and make sure workers whose jobs change don't lose out or they get compensated. I agree that there are alot of rich people getting away with murder but I don't think that's going to change if the rich people getting away with murder are making the rules because turkeys don't vote for Christmas. And I say that about ALL politicians of every creed, but also other rich folk and system-dodgers. But as we cannot change it I think the general population just has to be less demanding (if it can) of what there is when the resources aren't being given out. I agree with nurses getting more pay but I don't agree with sick people dying and car parks full of ambulances to make the point. Whenever these spats occur only the public lose out - politicians couldn't care less if there's no train because they can pay for something else on expenses and they don't have to queue in a hospital corridor if they've got private medical insurance. I think the strikes are pointless. Yes, you can stir up public feeling and have us all rioting on the streets but nobody cares what we think anyway, they'll just shut the door of number ten, put policemen outside and say 'Very snug!'. As the general population it seems we can only rely on each other, not those in charge, so I think it's up to every one of us to only take what we need although any 'spare' is likely to go in the pockets of those who don't need it so I think we've become reliant on charities, funded by philanthropic kind people in the public space, to sort everything now. Food banks, neighbours, hoping your bank understands, pro bono lawyers, a local business - it's kind of ended up a 'sort it out yourself' society, so we all need to be kinder, less greedy, more generous, more flexible, more understanding, more HUMANE. And that sometimes means not having everything you want so that someone worse off can get what they need. Which might be as simple as a train to get to their minimum wage job. The train drivers job is not hard - it is a very responsible job but then many jobs are.It is the union demands that really get my goat woodbine said: The disputes are not all about pay far more than that, however with inflation at 30 years high then people want more money simple as that really and I hope they continue to strike until they get it, and I include NHS staff in that as well.Since the railways were privatised they have just gotten worse, four of them so bad that the govt. has had to re-nationalise them again.We are all now paying the price for Tory austerity hopefully we will now have learnt the lesson and vote anything but Tory in 2024. So - anyone demanding more pay and holding the country to ransom because they claim that there jobs are indespensible are entitled to more pay ?What about Police, Fire, Ambulance, Doctors, Nurses, Army, Navy, RAF etc etc - it just goes on and on - there is only a limited amount of money available and when all of these vital services, receive what they demand - inflation increases which leaves the rest of us worse off - so the whole things starts again... the next year more groups decide that they are vital (taxi drivers etc) - at some point, it has to stop or the country will be broke with hyper inflation - like Germany pre-WW2.... The point about next year is that inflation is expected to be around 3-4%, as for the current year when the govt. decided to protect jobs via the furlough scheme they found hundreds of millions to do it and it has to be said that public sector pay DOES NOT increase inflation how could it? As for Germany inflation there in the early 30's was triple digit a lilt like Argentina now where inflation is 100%.One final point the rail strikes have in a year cost the economy £5 billion far far more than settling the dispute would have cost.
Wibbles said: EffinMuppet said: I'm going to take the middle ground here - I think train drivers (not sure about ALL rail workers!) do a very difficult job; I think they're job may be like air traffic control workers in that they're only allowed to work so many hours a week because it's deemed so stressful and they have to be fresh to concentrate (I may be wrong!), and they have to deal with suicides on the track, the grumpy public and we'd go mad if they made a mistake at work and killed people. I think their wages are fair and they earn what they get. That said, in changing times ALL areas of work have to reform, some jobs (sadly) just DO become obsolete - you can't expect people to run a company in an archaic, unproductive, cost inducing and inefficient way because you don't want to change any of it. I grew up with the miners' strike - who would have known then that we'd now be trying to ban fossil fuels altogether?! I really feel for anyone who's job might be on the line but most of these organisations should be able to try to find their workers alternative roles within the system. We all sometimes have to re invent ourselves and go with the flow - AND I'M AN AUTISTIC PERSON!!! Even I realise it's just not realistic to expect everything to stay the same or how you want it forever. It'd be nice, but it's never going to happen. Progress can be cruel and no one's business is a charity. (But I don't have sympathy with the operators either because the train services are rubbish!). And no one wants less or different hours, but if they can manage on it then maybe just don't be too greedy - everyone's struggling. And if they CAN'T manage on it then that's where the Unions need to step in and make sure workers whose jobs change don't lose out or they get compensated. I agree that there are alot of rich people getting away with murder but I don't think that's going to change if the rich people getting away with murder are making the rules because turkeys don't vote for Christmas. And I say that about ALL politicians of every creed, but also other rich folk and system-dodgers. But as we cannot change it I think the general population just has to be less demanding (if it can) of what there is when the resources aren't being given out. I agree with nurses getting more pay but I don't agree with sick people dying and car parks full of ambulances to make the point. Whenever these spats occur only the public lose out - politicians couldn't care less if there's no train because they can pay for something else on expenses and they don't have to queue in a hospital corridor if they've got private medical insurance. I think the strikes are pointless. Yes, you can stir up public feeling and have us all rioting on the streets but nobody cares what we think anyway, they'll just shut the door of number ten, put policemen outside and say 'Very snug!'. As the general population it seems we can only rely on each other, not those in charge, so I think it's up to every one of us to only take what we need although any 'spare' is likely to go in the pockets of those who don't need it so I think we've become reliant on charities, funded by philanthropic kind people in the public space, to sort everything now. Food banks, neighbours, hoping your bank understands, pro bono lawyers, a local business - it's kind of ended up a 'sort it out yourself' society, so we all need to be kinder, less greedy, more generous, more flexible, more understanding, more HUMANE. And that sometimes means not having everything you want so that someone worse off can get what they need. Which might be as simple as a train to get to their minimum wage job. The train drivers job is not hard - it is a very responsible job but then many jobs are.It is the union demands that really get my goat woodbine said: The disputes are not all about pay far more than that, however with inflation at 30 years high then people want more money simple as that really and I hope they continue to strike until they get it, and I include NHS staff in that as well.Since the railways were privatised they have just gotten worse, four of them so bad that the govt. has had to re-nationalise them again.We are all now paying the price for Tory austerity hopefully we will now have learnt the lesson and vote anything but Tory in 2024. So - anyone demanding more pay and holding the country to ransom because they claim that there jobs are indespensible are entitled to more pay ?What about Police, Fire, Ambulance, Doctors, Nurses, Army, Navy, RAF etc etc - it just goes on and on - there is only a limited amount of money available and when all of these vital services, receive what they demand - inflation increases which leaves the rest of us worse off - so the whole things starts again... the next year more groups decide that they are vital (taxi drivers etc) - at some point, it has to stop or the country will be broke with hyper inflation - like Germany pre-WW2....
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