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Universal Income Trial

rebel11
Community member Posts: 1,612 Pioneering
Comments
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About time is my initial thought, and £1600 a month is more than expected, however only 30 people ?? not impressed. They had a plan a few years back to trial it in the whole of Sheffield but lost their bottle at the last minute.
Having said all that UBI is an excellent idea that has had some success in other countries.Seasons greetings to one and all 🎄🎅🏻🌲 -
Yes, just a Trial, but it will take away the daily anxiety and stress levels people feel.
No doubt people's well-being will improve. -
Is the UBI designed to replace all income or is it in addition to any private pensions etc ?
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Wibbles said:Is the UBI designed to replace all income or is it in addition to any private pensions etc ?
It won't replace private pensions. -
Whilst I can agree with you all as regards the social reasoning I doubt that it will give those who can work but won't/don't who are healthy and well.
If I was claiming to be unemployed on UC and someone offered me nearly £400 a week with no strings attached I would jump at the chance. I cannot see those being handed a golden opportunity to find meaningful work.
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stormy said:2oldcodgers said:Whilst I can agree with you all as regards the social reasoning I doubt that it will give those who can work but won't/don't who are healthy and well.
If I was claiming to be unemployed on UC and someone offered me nearly £400 a week with no strings attached I would jump at the chance. I cannot see those being handed a golden opportunity to find meaningful work.
Frankly I think it would be doing everyone a favour if only those who wanted to work did- Im so sick of people blagging instead of doing their jobs! Maybe the blaggers would just stay out of work given the choice- and people who want to do a good job would replace them.
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2oldcodgers said:Whilst I can agree with you all as regards the social reasoning I doubt that it will give those who can work but won't/don't who are healthy and well.
If I was claiming to be unemployed on UC and someone offered me nearly £400 a week with no strings attached I would jump at the chance. I cannot see those being handed a golden opportunity to find meaningful work. -
rebel11 said:2oldcodgers said:Whilst I can agree with you all as regards the social reasoning I doubt that it will give those who can work but won't/don't who are healthy and well.
If I was claiming to be unemployed on UC and someone offered me nearly £400 a week with no strings attached I would jump at the chance. I cannot see those being handed a golden opportunity to find meaningful work. -
michael57 said:rebel11 said:2oldcodgers said:Whilst I can agree with you all as regards the social reasoning I doubt that it will give those who can work but won't/don't who are healthy and well.
If I was claiming to be unemployed on UC and someone offered me nearly £400 a week with no strings attached I would jump at the chance. I cannot see those being handed a golden opportunity to find meaningful work. -
rebel11 said:2oldcodgers said:Whilst I can agree with you all as regards the social reasoning I doubt that it will give those who can work but won't/don't who are healthy and well.
If I was claiming to be unemployed on UC and someone offered me nearly £400 a week with no strings attached I would jump at the chance. I cannot see those being handed a golden opportunity to find meaningful work. -
rebel11 said:2oldcodgers said:Whilst I can agree with you all as regards the social reasoning I doubt that it will give those who can work but won't/don't who are healthy and well.
If I was claiming to be unemployed on UC and someone offered me nearly £400 a week with no strings attached I would jump at the chance. I cannot see those being handed a golden opportunity to find meaningful work. -
I'm not sure why you've posted the same post three times.
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My understanding of the trial in Wales is that income tax will be paid on the £19,200 Basic Income for 500 Care leavers ... the article doesn't say if tax will be paid on the English trial
Taking tax, rent, c. tax, utilities into account ... £400 is a lot on one hand, but not a lot on the other -
WelshBlue said:My understanding of the trial in Wales is that income tax will be paid on the £19,200 Basic Income for 500 Care leavers ... the article doesn't say if tax will be paid on the English trial
Taking tax, rent, c. tax, utilities into account ... £400 is a lot on one hand, but not a lot on the other -
rebel11 said:I'm not sure why you've posted the same post three times.
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rebel11 said:
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The benefit system back in the 1960s, through to the 1990s was far less conditional than it would become in 2000s onwards. Conditionality I don't think makes hardly any difference, except it accentuates suffering for those who cannot work for reasons of ill health, mental or physical. Employers will more frequently shun these applicants anyway and the whole process of dealing with the DWP is enough to send one into a spinning wheel of no end. The original intention was noble with Labour's New Deal but it was horribly twisted for political purposes.
The best thing about UBI is its not conditional and it's always there to keep us from losing the basic ability to eat and have shelter and ability to still function in society.
Can anyone really give a real genuine reason why we really still need those job centres? Why are they even still there? Where are the job boards? Where are computer search machines? Yes there are computers and that but I bet time limited and the staff in them don't really seem to be that welcoming unless you are there for a specific appointment. Job centres back in the day could be used with no questions asked, it was a public place and people were welcomed to come and go as they please but now its all appointment only and you are very plainly told to go 'online', all UC is now 'online'. So why not just take the natural next step get rid of the physical community job centres and have the whole thing online?
The only reason for job centres are they are used as an instrument of discipline. You are made to feel like a naughty girl or boy and have to have a quick 10 minute chat every week just to repeat the same things essentially. And the offices being open plan is utterly wrong. How to solve this overnight, make all appointments on a phone therefore confidentiality can be maintained. Sometimes people have to go in physically for ID and I get that but that is not going be a huge amount of people all the time.
UBI is criticized by those mostly who have made it and did work hard in many cases. But its a basic fact that you can work as hard as you want but still not make it and be held on the rocks and in trouble. As others said, AI is going to take away the very jobs that people who struggle to get long term employment and are low skilled as a definition. Low skilled doesn't mean low-quality. Low skilled workers are some of the most hard working people you'll meet in many cases and are often from very tough backgrounds. -
If you're like me and can't profess to know much about the concept of a Universal Basic Income, this website by the UBI Lab is insightful.
Interesting convo so far, and your point about job centres being a space of discipline absolutely resounded with me @DataMat
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2oldcodgers said:rebel11 said:
If you like, the 'polar' opposite of austerity, where people are actually looked after, not have to go through the DWP's benefits 'assault course', where you have to jump through 'hoops', if you fall there is another 'hoop' and so on.
When the country hit's the 'buffers', the governments number one thought is to attack the 'vulnerable', because they are perceived as having no benefit for society. They don't aid GDP, they don't contribute etc.
Note they don't hit the millionaires, the billionaires etc.
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DataMat said:The benefit system back in the 1960s, through to the 1990s was far less conditional than it would become in 2000s onwards. Conditionality I don't think makes hardly any difference, except it accentuates suffering for those who cannot work for reasons of ill health, mental or physical. Employers will more frequently shun these applicants anyway and the whole process of dealing with the DWP is enough to send one into a spinning wheel of no end. The original intention was noble with Labour's New Deal but it was horribly twisted for political purposes.
The best thing about UBI is its not conditional and it's always there to keep us from losing the basic ability to eat and have shelter and ability to still function in society.
Can anyone really give a real genuine reason why we really still need those job centres? Why are they even still there? Where are the job boards? Where are computer search machines? Yes there are computers and that but I bet time limited and the staff in them don't really seem to be that welcoming unless you are there for a specific appointment. Job centres back in the day could be used with no questions asked, it was a public place and people were welcomed to come and go as they please but now its all appointment only and you are very plainly told to go 'online', all UC is now 'online'. So why not just take the natural next step get rid of the physical community job centres and have the whole thing online?
The only reason for job centres are they are used as an instrument of discipline. You are made to feel like a naughty girl or boy and have to have a quick 10 minute chat every week just to repeat the same things essentially. And the offices being open plan is utterly wrong. How to solve this overnight, make all appointments on a phone therefore confidentiality can be maintained. Sometimes people have to go in physically for ID and I get that but that is not going be a huge amount of people all the time.
UBI is criticized by those mostly who have made it and did work hard in many cases. But its a basic fact that you can work as hard as you want but still not make it and be held on the rocks and in trouble. As others said, AI is going to take away the very jobs that people who struggle to get long term employment and are low skilled as a definition. Low skilled doesn't mean low-quality. Low skilled workers are some of the most hard working people you'll meet in many cases and are often from very tough backgrounds.
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