Universal Income Trial - Page 2 — Scope | Disability forum
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Universal Income Trial

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Comments

  • rebel11
    rebel11 Community member Posts: 1,636 Pioneering
    If you're like me and can't profess to know much about the concept of a Universal Basic Income, this website by the UBI Lab is insightful. 

    Interesting convo so far, and your point about job centres being a space of discipline absolutely resounded with me @DataMat
    AI, Robots etc can potentially take over a lot of jobs, think of bus drivers, fully automated buses, will bus drivers be needed? I don't think so. That's just one example, there won't be enough jobs simply because technology will be taking over many, many jobs.
  • 2oldcodgers
    2oldcodgers Posts: 743 Connected
    DataMat said:
    The benefit system back in the 1960s, through to the 1990s was far less conditional than it would become in 2000s onwards. Conditionality I don't think makes hardly any difference, except it accentuates suffering for those who cannot work for reasons of ill health, mental or physical. Employers will more frequently shun these applicants anyway and the whole process of dealing with the DWP is enough to send one into a spinning wheel of no end. The original intention was noble with Labour's New Deal but it was horribly twisted for political purposes. 

    The best thing about UBI is its not conditional and it's always there to keep us from losing the basic ability to eat and have shelter and ability to still function in society. 

    Can anyone really give a real genuine reason why we really still need those job centres? Why are they even still there? Where are the job boards? Where are computer search machines? Yes there are computers and that but I bet time limited and the staff in them don't really seem to be that welcoming unless you are there for a specific appointment. Job centres back in the day could be used with no questions asked, it was a public place and people were welcomed to come and go as they please but now its all appointment only and you are very plainly told to go 'online', all UC is now 'online'. So why not just take the natural next step get rid of the physical community job centres and have the whole thing online?

    The only reason for job centres are they are used as an instrument of discipline. You are made to feel like a naughty girl or boy and have to have a quick 10 minute chat every week just to repeat the same things essentially. And the offices being open plan is utterly wrong. How to solve this overnight, make all appointments on a phone therefore confidentiality can be maintained. Sometimes people have to go in physically for ID and I get that but that is not going be a huge amount of people all the time.

    UBI is criticized by those mostly who have made it and did work hard in many cases. But its a basic fact that you can work as hard as you want but still not make it and be held on the rocks and in trouble. As others said, AI is going to take away the very jobs that people who struggle to get long term employment and are low skilled as a definition. Low skilled doesn't mean low-quality. Low skilled workers are some of the most hard working people you'll meet in many cases and are often from very tough backgrounds.

    People in the 60's, 70's, 80's and 90's had a different way of looking at the welfare state. It was something no one wanted to be involved with. People would sooner work harder, work longer hours etc., so as to avoid the 'dole' and incapacity benefit. We had the Remploy industry for those that could not manage a mainstream job due to disability. Being 'sick' was seen as malingering. Especially in the 60's people still had visions that the old 'National Assistance' was still with us but with a different name DHSS.
    Come the turn of the century things started to change. The fear and stigma of being known as a welfare claimant slowly became a means to an end especially when the benefit system changed and it became more acceptable. Then in the next decade (2010 +)  We were treated to a 'fly on the wall' documentary - Benefit Street - which rightly or wrongly portrayed what these welfare claimants were doing. More children = more money, go sick = more money - in fact the level of welfare income they were receiving was far greater than the net income of a worker on the minimum wage - hence why work?
    That then caused conditionality to be brought in - the benefit cap.

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