New State Pension and Housing Benefit and Council Tax Rebate Entitlement

Natureico

Hello

I would like to raise a pertinent issue please regarding the New State Pension of £203.85 per week  and those with disabilities and over Pension Credit age, and how it now financially adversely affects their ongoing entitlement to Full Housing Benefit and Council Tax Rebate.

The Crux of the Matter is the New State Pension, because

a retired couple both now receiving the New State Pension,

are automatically pushed over the Applicable Amount Limit

for Full Housing Benefit and Council Tax Rebate, with no

Opt Out mechanism or Leave of Appeal available to them.

Any extra income increase derived from the New State Pension

is also automatically clawed back by the Housing Benefit,

with the equal loss of Housing Benefit and Council Tax Rebate,

notwithstanding the additional loss of Pension Credit and all its associated

entitlements, like Free Dental Care etc.

So in essence, retired couples previously in receipt of Full Housing Benefit and Council Tax Rebate under Pension Credit, now both in receipt of the New State

Pension are undoubtedly financially worse off, with the additional

headache, strain and anxiety of having to make up the Shortfall

in Housing Benefit and Council Tax for the rest of their natural lives.

Not something that should be inflicted on Old Age Pensioners, especially with disabilities, I believe in the Twilight of their lives.

woodbine

The new SRP is the best thing that has happened in years, I've got 18 months to wait for mine but currently it will be in excess of £250 almost double my ESA 

calcotti

The new SP was set to reduce the numbers claiming Pension Credit.

Be aware however that if pensioners have disabilities and get a disability benefit they may qualify for Severe Disability Premium or their partner might qualify for Carer Allowance. The extra premiums could result in Pension Credit in which case full HB and CTR would apply.

corvid3853 said:.

So in essence, retired couples previously in receipt of Full Housing Benefit and Council Tax Rebate under Pension Credit, now both in receipt of the New State

Pension are undoubtedly financially worse off,

I don’t think that is true and you are making a assumption. According to my calculation a couple with two pensions at £203.85, despite a reduction on the HB and CTR, will still have more money than two pensioners each with pensions of £156.20.

Natureico

calcotti said:

The new SP was set to reduce the numbers claiming Pension Credit.

Be aware however
If pensioners have disabilities and get a disability benefit they may qualify for Severe Disability Premium or their partner might qualify for Carer Allowance. The extra premiums could result in Pension Credit in which case full HB and CTR would apply.

That is true. But pensioners over Pension Credit age can not claim for the Disability Premium. For to be eligible for the Severe Disability Premium, You must get the disability premium or income-related ESA, and one of the following qualifying benefits:

• PIP daily living component
• AFIP
• DLA care component at the middle or highest rate
• Adult Disability Payment - daily living component at the standard or enhanced rate
• Attendance Allowance (or Constant Attendance Allowance paid with Industrial Injuries Disablement Benefit or War Pension)

It's a bit of an oxymoron itself.

calcotti

corvid3853 said:

That is true. But pensioners over Pension Credit age can not claim for the Disability Premium. For to be eligible for the Severe Disability Premium, You must get the disability premium or income-related ESA, and one of the following qualifying benefits:

• PIP daily living component
• AFIP
• DLA care component at the middle or highest rate
• Adult Disability Payment - daily living component at the standard or enhanced rate
• Attendance Allowance (or Constant Attendance Allowance paid with Industrial Injuries Disablement Benefit or War Pension)

It's a bit of an oxymoron itself.

I never mentioned the Disability Premium and it is has nothing to do with SDP for PC.

The SDP can be included in Pension Credit if the qualifying conditions are met. These are receiving a qualifying disability benefit, any other adult they with must also get a qualifying benefit and nobody is reviving a carer benefit for looking after them.

You also mentioned ESA which is also irrelevant. A pensioner cannot be getting ESA.

Saying the disability premium or income based ESA is needed in order to get SDP is incorrect for PC. The website you have quoted does not deal with PC (and only think it didn’t quck correct for HB requirements).

poppy123456

corvid3853 said:

calcotti said:

The new SP was set to reduce the numbers claiming Pension Credit.

Be aware however
If pensioners have disabilities and get a disability benefit they may qualify for Severe Disability Premium or their partner might qualify for Carer Allowance. The extra premiums could result in Pension Credit in which case full HB and CTR would apply.

That is true. But pensioners over Pension Credit age can not claim for the Disability Premium. For to be eligible for the Severe Disability Premium, You must get the disability premium or income-related ESA, and one of the following qualifying benefits:

• PIP daily living component
• AFIP
• DLA care component at the middle or highest rate
• Adult Disability Payment - daily living component at the standard or enhanced rate
• Attendance Allowance (or Constant Attendance Allowance paid with Industrial Injuries Disablement Benefit or War Pension)

It's a bit of an oxymoron itself.

It really does help to have some understanding of SDP before making assumptions. https://www.entitledto.co.uk/help/severe-disability-premium

Natureico

[deleted]

Natureico

calcotti said:

corvid3853 said:

That is true. But pensioners over Pension Credit age can not claim for the Disability Premium. For to be eligible for the Severe Disability Premium, You must get the disability premium or income-related ESA, and one of the following qualifying benefits:

• PIP daily living component
• AFIP
• DLA care component at the middle or highest rate
• Adult Disability Payment - daily living component at the standard or enhanced rate
• Attendance Allowance (or Constant Attendance Allowance paid with Industrial Injuries Disablement Benefit or War Pension)

It's a bit of an oxymoron itself.

I never mentioned the Disability Premium and it is has nothing to do with SDP for PC.

The SDP can be included in Pension Credit if the qualifying conditions are met. These are receiving a qualifying disability benefit, any other adult they with must also get a qualifying benefit and nobody is reviving a carer benefit for looking after them.

You also mentioned ESA which is also irrelevant. A pensioner cannot be getting ESA.

Saying the disability premium or income based ESA is needed in order to get SDP is incorrect for PC. The website you have quoted does not deal with PC (and only think it didn’t quck correct for HB requirements).

calcotti said:

corvid3853 said:

That is true. But pensioners over Pension Credit age can not claim for the Disability Premium. For to be eligible for the Severe Disability Premium, You must get the disability premium or income-related ESA, and one of the following qualifying benefits:

• PIP daily living component
• AFIP
• DLA care component at the middle or highest rate
• Adult Disability Payment - daily living component at the standard or enhanced rate
• Attendance Allowance (or Constant Attendance Allowance paid with Industrial Injuries Disablement Benefit or War Pension)

It's a bit of an oxymoron itself.

I never mentioned the Disability Premium and it is has nothing to do with SDP for PC.

The SDP can be included in Pension Credit if the qualifying conditions are met. These are receiving a qualifying disability benefit, any other adult they with must also get a qualifying benefit and nobody is reviving a carer benefit for looking after them.

You also mentioned ESA which is also irrelevant. A pensioner cannot be getting ESA.

Saying the disability premium or income based ESA is needed in order to get SDP is incorrect for PC. The website you have quoted does not deal with PC (and only think it didn’t quck correct for HB requirements).

We may be at cross purposes here  I am actually referring to Housing Benefit Entitlement not Pension Credit. I only mentioned that you can't claim Disability Premium for Housing Benefit if you are over Pension Credit age.

calcotti

corvid3853 said:

We may be at cross purposes here  I am actually referring to Housing Benefit Entitlement not Pension Credit. I only mentioned that you can't claim Disability Premium for Housing Benefit if you are over Pension Credit age.

As said in my earlier post, a pensioner couple without disability benefits each getting £203.85 pension plus HB and CTR will have a higher income than a couple with pensions of £156.20 plus HB and CTR so it is incorrect to say that they are undoubtedly less worse. 

I still do not to see the relevance of Disability Premium. The DP increases the personal allowance for a qualifying working age claimant. A pensioner already has a higher personal allowance for HB which is significantly higher.

Natureico

calcotti said:

The new SP was set to reduce the numbers claiming Pension Credit.

Be aware however that if pensioners have disabilities and get a disability benefit they may qualify for Severe Disability Premium or their partner might qualify for Carer Allowance. The extra premiums could result in Pension Credit in which case full HB and CTR would apply.

corvid3853 said:.

So in essence, retired couples previously in receipt of Full Housing Benefit and Council Tax Rebate under Pension Credit, now both in receipt of the New State

Pension are undoubtedly financially worse off,

I don’t think that is true and you are making a assumption. According to my calculation a couple with two pensions at £203.85, despite a reduction on the HB and CTR, will still have more money than two pensioners each with pensions of £156.20.

I am not talking about two pensioners receiving the old state pensions of £156.20 ( Pre 2016 ) or indeed making assumptions.

Specifically, I am talking about pensioner couples, where one was claiming the New State Pension previously set at £175.20 per week before the Triple Lock Rise in April 2023, and also claiming Pension Credit for their younger partner.

calcotti

corvid3853 said:.

Specifically, I am talking about pensioner couples, where one was claiming the New State Pension previously set at £175.20 per week before the Triple Lock Rise in April 2023, and also claiming Pension Credit for their younger partner.

It appears to be looking at a particular example and then making an (incorrect).sweeping generalisation.

provide full details of your example and we would be able to look at the impact. If the younger partner has no income then the old partner is still going to be entitled to Pension Credit. Without details it’s not possible to assess the situation.

As an aside, full SP was £185.15/week last year, not £175.20. Someone was getting £175.20 last year they will not be getting £203.85 now.

Natureico

poppy123456 said:

corvid3853 said:

calcotti said:

The new SP was set to reduce the numbers claiming Pension Credit.

Be aware however
If pensioners have disabilities and get a disability benefit they may qualify for Severe Disability Premium or their partner might qualify for Carer Allowance. The extra premiums could result in Pension Credit in which case full HB and CTR would apply.

That is true. But pensioners over Pension Credit age can not claim for the Disability Premium. For to be eligible for the Severe Disability Premium, You must get the disability premium or income-related ESA, and one of the following qualifying benefits:

• PIP daily living component
• AFIP
• DLA care component at the middle or highest rate
• Adult Disability Payment - daily living component at the standard or enhanced rate
• Attendance Allowance (or Constant Attendance Allowance paid with Industrial Injuries Disablement Benefit or War Pension)

It's a bit of an oxymoron itself.

It really does help to have some understanding of SDP before making assumptions. https://www.entitledto.co.uk/help/severe-disability-premium

Again it is not an assumption, I never make assumptions, I only deal in facts and figures.
I am referring to Housing Benefit Entitlement not Pension Credit.
Too quick to make judgement here without establishing the facts.

Natureico

calcotti said:

corvid3853 said:.

Specifically, I am talking about pensioner couples, where one was claiming the New State Pension previously set at £175.20 per week before the Triple Lock Rise in April 2023, and also claiming Pension Credit for their younger partner.

It appears to be looking at a particular example and then making an (incorrect).sweeping generalisation.

provide full details of your example and we would be able to look at the impact. If the younger partner has no income then the old partner is still going to be entitled to Pension Credit. Without details it’s not possible to assess the situation.

As an aside, full SP was £185.15/week last year, not £175.20. Someone was getting £175.20 last year they will not be getting £203.85 now.

 The full rate of the new State Pension was actually £175.20 per week (in 2019/20). That is what I was citing.

The case I am referring to is the younger partner has now received the New State Pension of  £203.85, thereby ending entitlement to Pension Credit.

calcotti

corvid3853 said:

 The full rate of the new State Pension was actually £175.20 per week (in 2019/20). That is what I was citing..

Whereas you referred to the pension before the rise in April 2023 which was the 2022/23 year.

corvid3853 said:

Specifically, I am talking about pensioner couples, where one was claiming the New State Pension previously set at £175.20 per week before the Triple Lock Rise in April 2023, and also claiming Pension Credit for their younger partner.

corvid3853 said:

Again it is not an assumption, I never make assumptions, I only deal in facts and figures.

I am referring to Housing Benefit Entitlement not Pension Credit.

There is no requirement to get Disability Premium in order to get SDP in HB.seethe Housing Manual volume

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/236965/hbgm-bp3-assessment-of-needs.pdf

corvid3853 said:

The case I am referring to is the younger partner has now received the New State Pension of  £203.85, thereby ending entitlement to Pension Credit.

I can’t immediately see how they are worse off, although they may be worse off you given’t enough information to tell. I certainly cannot see any justification for your sweeping statement in your opening post that “ retired couples previously in receipt of Full Housing Benefit and Council Tax Rebate under Pension Credit, now both in receipt of the New State Pension are undoubtedly financially worse”.

Things see to keep shifting around in your posts and I’m giving up of this thread

Natureico

calcotti said:

corvid3853 said:

 The full rate of the new State Pension was actually £175.20 per week (in 2019/20). That is what I was citing..

Whereas you referred to the pension before the rise in April 2023 which was the 2022/23 year.

corvid3853 said:

Specifically, I am talking about pensioner couples, where one was claiming the New State Pension previously set at £175.20 per week before the Triple Lock Rise in April 2023, and also claiming Pension Credit for their younger partner.

corvid3853 said:

Again it is not an assumption, I never make assumptions, I only deal in facts and figures.

I am referring to Housing Benefit Entitlement not Pension Credit.

There is no requirement to get Disability Premium in order to get SDP in HB.seethe Housing Manual volume

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/236965/hbgm-bp3-assessment-of-needs.pdf

corvid3853 said:

The case I am referring to is the younger partner has now received the New State Pension of  £203.85, thereby ending entitlement to Pension Credit.

I can’t immediately see how they are worse off, although they may be worse off you given’t enough information to tell. I certainly cannot see any justification for your sweeping statement in your opening post that “ retired couples previously in receipt of Full Housing Benefit and Council Tax Rebate under Pension Credit, now both in receipt of the New State Pension are undoubtedly financially worse”.

Things see to keep shifting around in your posts and I’m giving up of this thread

I can assure you from my calculations in that instance a couple are financially worse off. I have gave some more specifics in answer to my opening post, so I was hoping you would see some incremental justification.

And for the avoidance of doubt again, I am not referirng to SDP in HB, I am referring to the fact that a pension couple over over Pension Credit age, are not entitled to the Disability Premium for Housing Benefit.

poppy123456

corvid3853 said:

And for the avoidance of doubt again, I am not referirng to SDP in HB, I am referring to the fact that a pension couple over over Pension Credit age, are not entitled to the Disability Premium for Housing Benefit.

The disability premium only applies to working age people. Those of state pension age and above are not of working age. Anyway, i'm out now.

Natureico

poppy123456 said:

corvid3853 said:

And for the avoidance of doubt again, I am not referirng to SDP in HB, I am referring to the fact that a pension couple over over Pension Credit age, are not entitled to the Disability Premium for Housing Benefit.

The disability premium only applies to working age people. Those of state pension age and above are not of working age. Anyway, i'm out now.

So would I be right in suggesting that those already in receipt of diasbility premium, lose their entitlement for it when they reach pension age and above ? So there is no roll over or overlapping of entitlement to Disability Premium ? When you consider that there must be hundreds of thousands of pensioners still working, is there not a case for Age Discrimination under The Housing Benefit Regulations 2006 Act in your opinion ?

calcotti

corvid3853 said:

poppy123456 said:

corvid3853 said:

And for the avoidance of doubt again, I am not referirng to SDP in HB, I am referring to the fact that a pension couple over over Pension Credit age, are not entitled to the Disability Premium for Housing Benefit.

The disability premium only applies to working age people. Those of state pension age and above are not of working age. Anyway, i'm out now.

So would I be right in suggesting that those already in receipt of diasbility premium, lose their entitlement for it when they reach pension age and above ? So there is no roll over or overlapping of entitlement to Disability Premium ? When you consider that there must be hundreds of thousands of pensioners still working, is there not a case for Age Discrimination under The Housing Benefit Regulations 2006 Act in your opinion ?

As already advised in an earlier post a pensioner has a higher personal allowance for HB than a working age claimant.

calcotti said:

I still do not to see the relevance of Disability Premium. The DP increases the personal allowance for a qualifying working age claimant. A pensioner already has a higher personal allowance for HB which is significantly higher.

 The pensioner cannot get the disability premium but still has a higher allowance. You can see all the allowances
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/benefit-and-pension-rates-2023-to-2024/benefit-and-pension-rates-2023-to-2024

Natureico

You must be receiving Disability Premium in order to get Severe Disability Premium for Housing Benefit..

See link below please.

https://www.homecare.co.uk/advice/how-to-claim-disability-premiums-severe-and-enhanced

calcotti

corvid3853 said:

You must be receiving Disability Premium in order to get Severe Disability Premium for Housing Benefit..

See link below please.

https://www.homecare.co.uk/advice/how-to-claim-disability-premiums-severe-and-enhanced

That is wrong. See previous post

calcotti said:

There is no requirement to get Disability Premium in order to get SDP in HB.seethe Housing Manual volume

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/236965/hbgm-bp3-assessment-of-needs.pdf

Natureico

One link contradicts the other. Both of them can't be correct.

To be eligible for Severe Disability Premium, you must get the Disability Premium or income-related Employment and Support Allowance (ESA). You must also receive one of the following benefits:

• Daily living component of Personal Independence Payment (PIP)
• Armed Forces Independence Payment (AFIP)
• Middle or highest rate of the Disability Living Allowance care component
• Attendance Allowance or Constant Attendance Allowance funded with Industrial Injuries Disablement Benefit or War Pension