Electric cars by 2030

colet

I just watch BBC Breakfast and that the government is putting in a ban of diesel and petrol cars.

I have questions 

1. How is this going to affect us?
2. Are Mobility going to install charging points in our homes?
3. Is PIP going to go up to help us to charge them at home?

These questions just jumped into my head in the space of a minute!

What are your thoughts 

poppy123456

When ever this does happen people will still be able to buy used petrol/diesel vehicles. Mobility will already pay for the cost of a charging point at your home, for those that choose electric vehicles and are able to have one installed. Not everyone can have charging points though because a lot of people don't have driveways. (like me)

No, they won't increase the mobility payment to help with the cost of charging. You have to pay for that yourself, the same as you have to pay for fuel now.

66Mustang

I don't think it will happen until someone comes up with an alternative fuel source to petrol/diesel that is suitable for everyone e.g. those who live in flats or terraced houses.

66Mustang

I have another question since the OP's have been answered.

If they did ban new combustion engined cars, I wonder if Motability would adapt and somehow allow customers to run a used car on the scheme, for those of us who are not allowed, by law, to charge an electric car at home. (e.g. because the charging cable would have to run over a public pavement.)

Tronster

66Mustang said:

I have another question since the OP's have been answered.

If they did ban new combustion engined cars, I wonder if Motability would adapt and somehow allow customers to run a used car on the scheme, for those of us who are not allowed, by law, to charge an electric car at home. (e.g. because the charging cable would have to run over a public pavement.)

I highly doubt it. Plus that 2030 year is just a target.. and judging by economic standings. Probably not achievable 

However councils are going to be getting funding soon to convert lamposts into charging points so that should help alot of people with no driveways

poppy123456

Coverting lamposts into chargers just isn't a viable option for me because it will just cost too much to charge. I would happily move to full EV if i had a drive or somewhere to install a home charger point. I did some sums before i chose my current car and it just isn't an option. Motability do give a reduction in public charging if you can't have a home charger but the cost is still through the roof.

poppy123456

woodbine said:

2030 has always been the target date and lets hope they meet it, as for charging by then lots of forecourts will have charging points, many supermarkets already do and the cost of charging will be much less than petrol.

The cost of charging at home would be less than fuel. The cost of charging at public charging points would not be less than fuel, not based on my current MPG in the car i have now. Not all public chargers are always in use either. Chargers that are free are mostly slow chargers and it really isn't a viable option.

Wibbles

The government remains committed to banning the sale of new petrol and diesel vehicles by 2030, cabinet minister Michael Gove has said.

Some senior Tories are calling on Rishi Sunak to scrap the deadline and row back on other green policies.

Mr Gove said some plans to tackle the climate crisis create a "backlash" but the 2030 ban was immoveable.

Cost of charging an EV in public

The cost of recharging an electric car  depends on just two things: the size of its battery, and the cost of the electricity you’re putting in it.

A large EV might have a 100 kiloWatt (kWh) hour battery, whereas a smaller EV might have a 50kWh battery – just as a bigger fuel tank costs more to fill.

The larger battery will cost twice as much to charge as the smaller one, assuming the same price of electricity.

For the purposes of simple calculations, we’ll assume all charging sessions fill up a battery from 0-100%, though in reality most people will either top them up little and often at home, or charge them from 20-90% to preserve battery health.

Prices for public chargers vary from provider to provider and there is no readily available national average figure, but 65 pence per kiloWatt hour from a rapid public charger is not atypical.

If you charge a 100kWh EV from empty to full, that would cost you £65. Charge a 50kWh EV at the same price and you would be looking at £32.50.

An efficient EV might cover an average of 5 miles for every kiloWatt hours, and an inefficient one 2.5 miles per kWh. If you pay 65 pence for a kiloWatt hour and get five miles out of that kiloWatt hour, that’s 65 pence divided by five, or 15 pence per mile. At the same price, an EV managing 2.5 miles per kWh will cost 30 pence per mile.

Either way, public charging is relatively expensive, and it’s almost always cheaper to charge at home. Some EV charging networks require membership in order for you to use their chargers, or offer lower prices for members who pay a monthly subscription.

Cost of charging an EV at home

Smart home energy tariffs can give you an off-peak electricity cost, and allow you to charge your car demand and prices are low – for example between midnight and 4am; you can even schedule your EV to charge only during these off-peak times.

Let’s say you have one of these tariffs, and electricity costs 7.5 pence off peak. A 100kWh battery would cost £7.50 to charge at that rate, and assuming it went 300 miles on that charge, that works out at a cost of 2.5 pence per mile for electricity alone - This is considerably cheaper than the cost of a petrol powered car (say 40mpg at £5.50 per gallon - 13.75 pence per mile for fuel alone)

If you need to charge using peak domestic electricity, for which a price of 35 pence per kWh might be reasonable, a full 100kW charge will cost you £35, which translates to 12 pence per mile.

poppy123456

woodbine said:

poppy123456 said:

woodbine said:

2030 has always been the target date and lets hope they meet it, as for charging by then lots of forecourts will have charging points, many supermarkets already do and the cost of charging will be much less than petrol.

The cost of charging at home would be less than fuel. The cost of charging at public charging points would not be less than fuel, not based on my current MPG in the car i have now. Not all public chargers are always in use either. Chargers that are free are mostly slow chargers and it really isn't a viable option.

Personally as I don't drive I couldn't care less I was purely making a point, but from what I've heard/read EV are much cheaper to run than petrol ones are, forecourts are adding chargers at the rate of 100 a week and I'm sure that the majority are/will be fast charges. If you are going into e.g Tesco and can put your EV on charge while you shop I don't see a problem.

I have no idea where you heard or read that but EVs are only cheaper if you have your own charging point. Otherwise they are considerably more expensive.

WelshBlue

One thing people/ government are forgetting about EV's ... not enough training is going into mechanics certified to work on them.  I know every mechanic in my town (10) and not one is interested in them or getting the certs' because working on ICE cars will see them out to their retirements 

Clean to run, dirty to produce and will be scrapped sooner than ICE cars after the batteries die ... so how long are they 'clean' for compared to manufacturing ICE cars which can last for 30 years ?

Some research shows that brake and tyre dust is more polluting than fuel emission.   i've never followed the research but think it was Imperial College London who carried it out

Living in a rural area where the nearest motorway is 55 miles away in any direction, twisty roads, plenty of hills, I know people getting only 250 miles out of a 400 range car in the Summer.  Add wipers, heaters etc and you're down to 200 on a full charge in the Winter  ... 

On the Stop Oil theme ... how many get to protests using an ICE mode of transport, is something I've wondered 

littleacorn

When has any government ever met a target?

JessieJ

Until they stop EV batteries catching fire, I can't see that anything will happen. Another car carrying ship caught fire today, one death & many injured, thought is, it was caused by one of the EVs it was carrying. Last year, there was another, plus all the cars, busses & lorries that have gone up too.

2oldcodgers

66Mustang said:

I don't think it will happen until someone comes up with an alternative fuel source to petrol/diesel that is suitable for everyone e.g. those who live in flats or terraced houses.

Why?
Not having the ability to charge the vehicle at home would not be a game changer. There will be public charging points within easy reach that you could use. Arguing that they would be more expensive than what you would pay for a home charge is nonsense. The cost at a public charger would not normally be that much different to what you are currently paying for petrol or diesel.

poppy123456

woodbine said:

  perhaps you have a link to prove your point?

Yes no problem. https://pod-point.com/guides/driver/cost-of-charging-electric-car

https://pod-point.com/guides/driver/cost-of-charging-electric-car

poppy123456

2oldcodgers said:

66Mustang said:

I don't think it will happen until someone comes up with an alternative fuel source to petrol/diesel that is suitable for everyone e.g. those who live in flats or terraced houses.

The cost at a public charger would not normally be that much different to what you are currently paying for petrol or diesel.

For me based on the car i currently have it would be a lot more, which is why i said it's not a viable option for me.

WelshBlue

Insurance premiums are going to rocket for all drivers. 
Motability will surely get stricter with their wear and tear policy.  A minor scuff will become a bigger issue to fix

You can't put a car full of battery in an oven to bake quickly...costs to repair are going to go sky high to cover the costs of double oven time, isolating the battery system before you can start work will cost on top.  Then there's the safety issue because the capacitor’s cooling system is disabled, the car is vulnerable to overheating.

going to be a nightmare if 2030 happens

poppy123456

woodbine said:

poppy123456 said:

woodbine said:

  perhaps you have a link to prove your point?

Yes no problem. https://pod-point.com/guides/driver/cost-of-charging-electric-car

https://pod-point.com/guides/driver/cost-of-charging-electric-car

which seems to prove overall that EV will be far cheaper than petrol/diesel cars, but as it in no way affects me (a non driver) doesn't interest me at all, what I am/was interested in the move to EV which can only be good news for the environment in which I live and the reduction in our reliance on imported oil/petrol/diesel.
On that basis it appears to be a win win.

I wouldn't call £22 for 30 minute charge cheaper than fuel. As i said in a comment at the start of the thread, it's not a viable option for me. 

It's only cheaper if you have a home charger or you can charge at work for free. Both options aren't possible for me but i have nothing against EVs at all. For this reason i will stick to my self charging hybrid. Anyway, i'm out now and won't comment any further.

WelshBlue

woodbine said:

@WelshBlue whilst some of that goes right over my bald head I assume much of it is conjecture ?

Not conjecture.  Words from my Insurance Broker and my cousin who has a body repair business, about how the future of the EV revolution will effect the car insurance world

EV's cost more to repair due to time needed ... 1. To prepare them for repair  2. Takes longer to finish a car due to a slower lower 'bake' in the oven

As more get on the road = more damaged EV's to repair = simple economics that insurance premiums will rise for all to cover the added costs.

Someone only has to stub their toe and personal injury policies rise ... <<< that is conjecture 
Or cynicism at how the insurance industry works

My worry for people on Motability (I'm not) is whether RSA will get stricter with drivers compared to how they are now, will more people be excluded from the scheme, will excesses price people out if it comes to repairs.  There's loads of questions that need answers for people to have peace of mind ?

As a PistonHead I'm not against EV's, they can be fun to drive ... but do think the infrastructure is not ready, nor will be ready to cope by 2030 for all the urban areas, let alone the rural ones for everyone to charge at a drop of a hat.

JessieJ

Until they sort out stability in the batteries, house insurance will rise too. Too many cars, Ebikes & Escooters going up. We'll all pay in the end, whether we have any or not.

rebel11

Thinking out of the box, Personkind is still evolving, fact, today we are in the form the evolutionary process has dictated, who knows, by 2030 personkind may develop wings.   

MaaniMike

JessieJ said:

Until they sort out stability in the batteries, house insurance will rise too. Too many cars, Ebikes & Escooters going up. We'll all pay in the end, whether we have any or not.

The numbers of incidents are well publicised which make it appear frequent but are relatively small in proportion.

In fact there are more fires due to incorrectly installed electrics and gas fires within homes in comparison so I wouldn't be too worried.

Escooters especially the cheaply made Chinese ones should simply not be charged at home. I imagine home insurers will update their terms and conditions to cancel any claim which relates to an escooter being the cause of a fire.