PIP review or new claim?

enda356

Hi everyone. My names Enda and I'm new here.

I have a question regarding PIP and would very much appreciate any advice please. I've been fretting over this for months, looking through all the previous posts et al but cannot find someone in the same position, so finally plucked up the courage to ask! 

I was awarded PIP by tribunal in October 2021, having made my original claim in October 2019. The tribunal awarded me both daily living and mobility standard rates from 3rd October 2019 to 2nd October 2023.

On my award letter it states that: "If your award of PIP has an end date, you will be sent a letter around 26 weeks before your award ends. This letter will explain how to claim again if you want to." (I don't know if this implies that I will have to make a new claim?)

However, having received no such letter, I approached my local Citizens Advice on 2nd May (they helped me all through my original claim/MR/tribunal) but unfortunately they have lost funding for the specialist that used to help me. They referred me to a gentleman at CAB to whom I explained everything that I am explaining here.

I asked whether or not I had to start a new claim, whether or not my PIP payments would stop, and if I could use a C/O (care of) address as my landlord is anti-benefits.

He told me that as my award was for 4 years, I would be given a review, that everyone was being given an extension of upto 12 months, that my payments wouldn't stop until I had a review so I shouldn't worry about it - even tough my PIP was awarded by tribunal - but contact PIP early September if I hadn't heard from them.

I wasn't confident in this advice and started googling, including the Citizens Advice website - where I found the following:
"The DWP won't usually review your award and will let it end if either:
- you were awarded PIP for 2 years or less
- you challenged the DWP's decision and a tribunal awarded you PIP or increased how much you get".

If someone could confirm whether the above info is correct please, I'd be much obliged? 

So I tried to get another appointment to see CAB but couldn't get one until 20th June. I explained what I had found (above) on their website, but they said that they couldn't find it. Then the manager said that they would get a colleague to call PIP if I would come back the next day (which isn't easy for me as I need a lot of assistance to leave the house) so that they had the time to make the call.

We went back the next day, 21st June, and were seen by the gentleman whom had advised me in May. Contrary to what the manager had said, he was very reluctant to call PIP. He finally agreed to do so, but "wouldn't spend any longer waiting for his call to be answered than 10 minutes." He didn't get through and we went away none the wiser. I was in a terrible state over this in the car park - so my helper went and had a word with the manager who said he'd see what he could do.

I got a call from the other manager (a lovely lady) on the 6th July to say that I was right to query what the other gentleman had told me and that she had contacted PIP on my behalf - but that there was nothing on my file to indicate what I needed to do. The PIP call handler didn't know what to do either. So they took the decision together to send me out a "How your disability affects you - AR1 UI" form. I asked if she had found out about whether they would stop my payments or not - she hadn't. I also asked if she had asked if I could use a c/o address so not to jeopardise my tenancy (I'm an excluded occupier - my landlord wouldn't have to give me a reason to evict me) - and she said she hadn't, but that it wasn't something I should worry about because my landlord wouldn't know what was in the letter. She told me to call them for an appointment when I received the letter and kindly offered to help me fill it in.

On the 20th July I received the letter. The letter hadn't been properly inserted into the envelope, however, so you couldn't see any name on it, only the address and 'Personal Independence Payment' below it. It was purely by good fortune that my landlord wasn't in that day. So I received it exactly two weeks since they sent it on the 6th July. It states that I have to return it by the 6th August or my PIP may stop. 

Now I have seen the form, it doesn't seem to be the correct one, as it states on page 5: "You have told us that your needs have changed." My needs haven't changed, they've stayed exactly the same - so it would seem immoral and fraudulent to say otherwise.

I have an appointment with the CAB tomorrow morning - but I simply don't know what to do or where I stand - and fear, in the absence of a specialist, that the CAB won't know what to do either.

Is this the correct form, or do I need a different one, or do I have to start a new claim? If I have to start a new claim, would the DWP be obliged to keep paying me PIP beyond my end date in light of the fact that they never sent me the letter 26 weeks before my claim is due to end, so there will be as gap in payments that isn't necessarily my fault?
Can I use a c/o address?

Does anyone have any advice on how best to proceed with the CAB tomorrow morning (apologies that I've left this post too late)?

My apologies again for the length of this post.

Any advice anyone can give me on these matters would be greatly appreciated, thank you.

Kind regards,
Enda

chiarieds

Hi @enda356 - & welcome to the community. As your award was made by a Tribunal, & not the DWP, then you're correct in thinking it should be a new claim, which I believe is normally sent about 14 weeks before your award is due to end. This should be a PIP2 form rather than the 'Change of Circumstances' one you've received.

Try ringing 0800 917 2222 which is the new claims number to ask for the PIP2.

Unfortunately the call handlers you get when you think you're ringing the DWP often give the wrong advice, but hopefully the above number will help as that's just for new claims.

enda356

Hi chiarieds - thank you for your reply.

Is this information available through the DWP or an official channel?

I've found this article which states:

"CAN AN AWARD MADE BY THE TRIBUNAL BE AUTOMATICALLY EXTENDED?

Yes, in principle. A PIP award made by the tribunal can be superseded for a change of circumstances in the same way as other awards.9 If this is the legal ground the DWP is using to make automatic extensions – and it appears to be – then it follows that an award made by the tribunal will be automatically extended, so long as it is ‘awaiting review’.

However, some advisers have reported that the DWP is not always attaching review dates to tribunal awards in the way as it does to other awards – ie, even where they are for more than two years. These awards are therefore not being automatically extended. The DWP does not have any statutory obligation to review awards, but its approach here does not appear to be in line with its own policies.10When you are advising someone who has an award made by the tribunal, do check their DWP award letter or call the PIP helpline to ask if an award review date has been set. The answer will determine the advice you give (see answer to ‘Does the automatic extensions policy apply to all PIP awards?’ above)."

The original article in totality is here:
https://askcpag.org.uk/content/208793/pip-reassessment-delays

Is there a case for what the CAB have said - which seems to correspond with the above?

Is there also a case for asking PIP for some leniency, as they didn't send me a letter as promised in my award letter?

Kind regards, 
enda356

poppy123456

When awarded by a Tribunal usually they contact about 14 weeks before, as advised by Chiarieds. They will write to you to ask you to reapply if you want to continue to claim PIP.

The form you received does it say it's a PIP2 or an AR1? The PIP2 is the longer form and would be the same one you received when you first applied. You can see the AR1 form here. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/756542/ar1-pip-award-review-how-your-disability-affects-you.pdf

PIP2 here. https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/713118/pip2-how-your-disability-affects-you-form.pdf Please note the verson you have maybe slightly different to both of those.

enda356 said:

Now I have seen the form, it doesn't seem to be the correct one, as it states on page 5: "You have told us that your needs have changed."

This here, seems to me that Citizens Advice may have reported changes to your health conditon.

Sometimes when awarded by a Tribunal DWP will extend that award if a decision hasn't been made by the time your award is due to end and sometimes they won't.

chiarieds

The above link is about where the DWP can supercede a decision made by the first tier tribunal where the claimant has put in for a 'Change of Circumstances' following a tribunal decision.

Scroll down to section 4450 to see where the DWP can supercede a Tribunal decision: 

'A4450 An FtT’s or UT's decision can be superseded where
1. the decision arose from ignorance of or mistake as to some material fact1or
2. it was made after the appeal was stayed2 or
3. there has been a relevant change of circumstances3 or
4. medical evidence has been received from an approved HCP or HP (or other person approved by  the Secretary of State)4'

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1065518/adma4.pdf

As you haven't put in for a 'Change of Circumstances' following your Tribunal decision, this isn't relevant.

As mentioned, it's normal for the DWP to send a new claim form some weeks before the end of your current award date. If they haven't, then just ring to ask for a new claim form.

Sorry took me some time to find a link (& I'd been reading a book), as it's just something I knew about from what I've learnt on this forum. However it is always best to find a link that confirms things!

chiarieds

poppy123456 said:

The form you received does it say it's a PIP2 or an AR1?

enda356 said:

So they took the decision .... to send me out a ..... AR1 UI form.

enda356

Hi poppy 123456,

Thank you for your reply.

"When awarded by a Tribunal usually they contact about 14 weeks before, as advised by Chiarieds. They will write to you to ask you to reapply if you want to continue to claim PIP."

They didn't contact me, even though my award has a 2nd October end date, so I went to CAB who rang PIP - neither of them knew what to do - so together they decided that the best course of action was to send me this form - AR1 UI. Now I have a deadline this Sunday to return that form by.

So the form is AR1 UI.

"This here, seems to me that Citizens Advice may have reported changes to your health conditon.:

No they didn't report a change in my condition. Again, this is what the CAB and PIP call handler thought was best.

"Sometimes when awarded by a Tribunal DWP will extend that award if a decision hasn't been made by the time your award is due to end and sometimes they won't."

How would I go about finding this out please? 

I see the CAB tomorrow morning, but I'm afraid they will make things worse so I'm trying to work out how best to proceed.

Thanks again for your advice.

Kind regards,
enda356

chiarieds

I think I'd be ringing the PIP enquiry line perhaps after all (0800 121 4433) as it looks like they've definitely sent you the wrong form due to what Citizens Advice have said. Explain that your Tribunal award is due to end, so you need a PIP2 form as you haven't put in for a 'Change of Circumstances.' I wouldn't return the AR UI form; getting the right form is the first thing to do to clear up this muddle. Then, as poppy says, it would be up to the DWP to possibly extend your award if a decision couldn't be made before your current award ends.

poppy123456

chiarieds said:

poppy123456 said:

The form you received does it say it's a PIP2 or an AR1?

enda356 said:

So they took the decision .... to send me out a ..... AR1 UI form.

Thank you, i missed that.

enda356

Thank you for your replies. I'm still pretty confused about all this..

Do you know whether I could use a care of address or not? As aforementioned, I believe that my current housing will be in jeopardy if PIP continue to send post to my address - my landlord is anti-benefits (and I am an excluded occupier, so he is quite entitled to evict me without giving a reason).

Thanks again.

poppy123456

Yes, you can use a "care of address." Going back to the subject of the form you received in my opinion, i don't think it matters that you've received the review form. You just need to make sure that you treat it as a new claim, regardless of the shortened form.

It has been known many times in the past for them to send review forms instead of PIP2 forms when awarded by the Tribunal.

enda356

thanks.

I read somewhere else on the forum that it was worth asking if there is a review date on a claim. any idea if that applies here?

thanks again

poppy123456

It will tell you that on the decision letter. It will say something like “we will contact you from X date “