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Pip evidence

Jon7777777

Hi all I have sent my pip online form in, with evidence of my health problems and how it effects me.

Cervical spondylosis, mri scan etc

I have explained in depth each condition so it's easy to understand as additional information.

I do understand evidence, reports from doctors etc on how your health condition effects you are used, but this is highly confusing as a gp etc would never know that as they are not around you on a daily basis, so a report from a doctor as evidence would just be what you have told them to write, so I can't understand how that is evidence, when myself or any other individual has already explained how it effects you. Thank you

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Comments

poppy123456

You are quite correct here, which is why letters from a GP are never the best evidence to send. Out of interest, who advised you send this? The same for MRI scans, they wouldn't tell them how your conditions affect you.

The best evidence to send is your anecdotal evidence. A couple of real world incidents of exactly what happened the last time you attempted each descriptor that applies to you. Adding detailed information such as where you were, what exactly happened, did anyone see it and what the consequences were. You are the best person to know how your conditions affect you, which is why this will be the best you can send.

chiarieds

You've come to exactly the right conclusion, i.e. that your GP doesn't see your day to day struggles looking at the PIP descriptors; don't see you dress, cook, use the bathroom or how you may budget.

With PIP, as has been mentioned before, a diagnosis won't be disputed, so really you didn't need to explain any of your conditions other than how they may affect your functional ability to reliably do any PIP descriptor that's applicable to yourself. A recent repeat prescription list may however be useful, but the most important thing is your own evidence as you correctly see.

Jon7777777

Thank you, I just read that letters from a gp etc are evidence but I disagree, evidence that you actually have a condition I understand are not proof of daily life but I suppose if you don't present them anybody could be being un truthfull espically if u don't give permission to your medical records, just my opinion if a person does have a health issue it's quite understandable without video evidence it's just what a person says but it's common sense how they would struggle with certain tasks

poppy123456

Usually the advice given on here is that GP letters aren't the best evidence. So i'm assuming you read that some where else.

It doesn't matter if you do given permission to access your medical records, they very very rarely do that anyway. If they do contact anyone it will be by phone or they will be sent a questionaire to fill in and return. Even then, they very rarely do that.

Video evidence? I'm not sure what you mean by that. You don't need medical evidence at all for a successful PIP award. Many people are awarded it without any of this as proof.

Jon7777777

Yes I think I did, thank you I never realised I presumed u had to prove you actually had the condition, then state how it effected your daily life, as in if no video evidence it's just a person's word for example they can't walk a certain distance that video evidence would prove it

poppy123456

A diagnosis, is often not in question so no you do not need to prove anything. I'm not sure how video evidence would work either because how do they know it's actually you? Assessments are mostly by telephone, so they won't be able to see you to know if it's you.

Jon7777777

Aww thank you poppy, I was just trying to understand a person could say they have hearing loss and wear a hearing aid but they mite not actually have nothing wrong with their hearing, I can imagine alot of false claims so I don't understand why u would not have to prove a condition thank u

poppy123456

You're welcome. Very few people claim PIP fraudulently.

2oldcodgers

poppy123456 said:

You're welcome. Very few people claim PIP fraudulently.

Sorry but many actually do. Maybe not fraudulently but more so with some exaggeration.
In my case with a damaged spine I can hardly walk - up to about 10 steps max.
I have the diagnosis letter as well as my repeat prescription. But how would the DWP actually accept your word for the problem with walking?
I could be exaggerating quite a bit or indeed telling a good story about what happened when I collapsed one day (never have but heyho.
Obviously my story was not believed by the assessor or the DWP. They accepted the physical problem but not the story I built around it.
That was until I went to my GP who had the hospital records that described in detail how I had fallen off the walking machine in physio twice after only managing 5/6 steps.
The DWP accepted that as excellent evidence and awarded Enhanced Mobility.

Jon7777777

2oldcodgers said:

poppy123456 said:

You're welcome. Very few people claim PIP fraudulently.

Sorry but many actually do. Maybe not fraudulently but more so with some exaggeration.
In my case with a damaged spine I can hardly walk - up to about 10 steps max.
I have the diagnosis letter as well as my repeat prescription. But how would the DWP actually accept your word for the problem with walking?
I could be exaggerating quite a bit or indeed telling a good story about what happened when I collapsed one day (never have but heyho.
Obviously my story was not believed by the assessor or the DWP. They accepted the physical problem but not the story I built around it.
That was until I went to my GP who had the hospital records that described in detail how I had fallen off the walking machine in physio twice after only managing 5/6 steps.
The DWP accepted that as excellent evidence and awarded Enhanced Mobility.

I agree with exaggeration, in my case 1 condition did not go threw doctors NHS it was private and the person who treated me has sadly passed away so evidence to prove you actually have the condition is important although the health condition does not actually award points, I think it's just common sense how a person's heath condition effects daily activities for example in your case pleased u were sucessfull

poppy123456

2oldcodgers said:

poppy123456 said:

You're welcome. Very few people claim PIP fraudulently.

Sorry but many actually do. Maybe not fraudulently but more so with some exaggeration.

OK so very few people claim it fraudulently then. Medical evidence isn't needed for a successful PIP award and that's fact.

2oldcodgers

poppy123456 said:

2oldcodgers said:

poppy123456 said:

You're welcome. Very few people claim PIP fraudulently.

Sorry but many actually do. Maybe not fraudulently but more so with some exaggeration.
OK so very few people claim it fraudulently then. Medical evidence isn't needed for a successful PIP award and that's fact.

But that then still doesn't address the issue if exaggeration is more prevalent than fraud. How can anybody genuinely come to the conclusion of entitlement based on a story or stories about how they are affected etc etc without any evidence to back up that story?
I could say that I cannot walk more than 20mtrs reliably. I could explain what would happen if I did. But in truth I could walk between 20 and 30mtrs. Surely you should have to evidence (a) the maximum distance and (b) what has happened when you tried to walk beyond that distance. Thankfully in my case I had cast iron evidence from the hospital when I tried to walk more than a few metres.
People live in a fools paradise if they are willing to take what people say and write as the gospel truth.

poppy123456

This has been talked about to death here over the years. Your anecdotal evidence is all the proof you need and no medical evidence is necessary.

I didn’t have any medical evidence when I first applied for my daughter because she wasn’t diagnosed at the time. She was still awarded Enhanced for both parts. Lots of people are successfully awarded without medical evidence. To say that this is needed is wrong.

Jon7777777

poppy123456 said:

This has been talked about to death here over the years. Your anecdotal evidence is all the proof you need and no medical evidence is necessary.

I didn’t have any medical evidence when I first applied for my daughter because she wasn’t diagnosed at the time. She was still awarded Enhanced for both parts. Lots of people are successfully awarded without medical evidence. To say that this is needed is wrong.

Hi I completely understand and am not saying yourself is wrong but taking into consideration a doctor gp is never around a person to know about there daily problems , and no medical evidence is required like you have stated this is why I am confused to what is the purpose of being asked contact information of gps etc, as they can only confirm health issues and not provide any other evidence to prove how a person's health conditions effect there daily life, so is the reason u do not have to supply evidence of a condition is based on the fact a gp would be contacted and then that would be disclosed

poppy123456

No, that’s not the reason because they very rarely contact anyone for any evidence. The onus is on you to prove you qualify and not theirs. A lot of medical evidence doesn’t state exactly how your conditions affect you anyway.

Even for my review in 2021 the majority of my claim was anecdotal evidence and from that I had a paper based assessment. Same for my daughter.

chiarieds

I think it's important to ask why Health Care Professionals/HCPs (which consist of nurses, physios & paramedics)) carry out PIP assessments, & that it's because they will have an understanding of many disorders, tho of course not all the same as any Dr.

As we know, there's actually very little benefit fraud; as to exaggeration, then that will likely be picked up if what a claimant says isn't consistent with their disorder, what they've written in their claim form, or say during an assessment. This is why we have HCPs, as the decision maker doesn't have any medical knowledge.

I completely agree with poppy that your own detailed anecdotal evidence is the most important. Why? Imagine 20 people with the same disorder, & they will all be affected differently. It's understanding the PIP descriptors & giving your own anecdotal evidence that then shows your own individual difficulties relating to these.

More is written about this here: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria In particular the following section, where actually HP is used as an abbreviation for a Health care Professional:

'2.1.3 In choosing descriptors, the HP should use their specific knowledge of the health condition or impairment as a measure of the level of disability that would be expected from the claimant's condition.'