ADP Appeal

McKeownOwn

Hello,

New here to the land of Scope...found you when looking for an answer to a question and so glad I did!

Has anyone been through the appeals process of Adult Disability Payment yet?

I know it's still in it's early stages so there might not be many that have reached this point yet.

The back story is this: I applied for ADP October 2022. Received initial decision June 2023. Asked for Re-determination within appropriate time frame. Was unsuccessful again. Both times evidence I have submitted doesn't appear to have been considered. 

Both results have came back with 1 point short in both daily and mobility. 

Advocacy service that is helping me feel strongly about applying for an appeal and I am just not sure what to do. If I had some kind of idea how long the appeals process takes, that might help me make a decision. I've never applied for anything like this before. Health deterioration and diagnoses all began last year. I'm finding the putting my life under a microscope and wait times etc a little stressful.

Any help at all will be much appreciated!

chiarieds

Hello @McKeownOwn - & welcome to the community. As far as I'm aware, you're the first of our members appealing ADP, so I couldn't say how long the appeal process would take, but similar to PIP, I'd think it may be a good idea to continue with your appeal, where the tribunal would consist of a judge, & also one person with medical, & the other with disability experience.

There's some info here: https://www.socialsecurity.gov.scot/asset-storage/production/downloads/Appeals-to-the-First-tier-Tribunal-for-Adult-Disability-Payment_2022-10-19-074441.pdf    & here: https://www.socialsecuritychamber.scot/home/your-appeal/a-process-appeal   with apologies if the latter is also in your redetermination letter.

I'd also stress that if you haven't said/been advised to say whether you can't do any of the activities 'reliably' then that may help: https://www.socialsecurity.gov.scot/asset-storage/production/downloads/33.-Reliability-criteria-for-Adult-Disability-Payment.pdf   together with giving a couple of of recent, detailed examples as to the difficulty you face for each applicable descriptor, i.e. when did it happen, where, what happened, did anyone see this, & were there any consequences to attempting/doing an activity? This, in a similar fashion to PIP, may help explain your individual difficulties in relation to applicable activities.

McKeownOwn

Hello @chiarieds many thanks for your information. Will start reading just now. Meeting with my Advocacy team later today to make decision on whether to proceed or not. I'm thinking I will, so I will keep you posted on the process if you want? If nothing else, my experience might help others.

chiarieds

Hello @McKeownOwn - Your experience with your ADP tribunal, should you proceed, will definitely be helpful, thank you. Wishing you well.

Jimm_Scope

Hi @McKeownOwn, do keep us updated please. Most of the experiences we here from are about PIP so hearing how an ADP appeal went would be very beneficial to the community I think!

McKeownOwn

Hi @chiarieds and @Jimm_Scope I decided to go ahead with the appeal. Sent off my letter with my many, many attachments on Friday 1st Sept. I shall keep you updated on how it goes. Can't believe it has almost been a full year since I completed Part 1 of the application on 30th Sept 2022!

Best advice I can give to anyone at the stage of thinking about applying...get as much evidence as possible in place and ready to go before you complete Part 2 of the application.

chiarieds

Wishing every success with your appeal.

Jimm_Scope

Good luck, let us know how it goes please. Fingers crossed for you!

McKeownOwn

A quick update...Appeal has been accepted by First Tier Tribunal. They advised SSS had until 16th October to send in their files on my case, which I can see on my portal that they have now done that.

Really like the portal system. On it I can see how the first case worker made the decision they did and the reasons they gave as to why (lots of contradictions to what my GP and Consultants said) and I can also see that no evidence/ notes etc have been given from the second case worker that was assigned to the re-determination. Which may confirm my suspicions that it was a rushed decision due to it being decided a day away from the caseworkers deadline.

So it's a waiting game from here I guess.

Will let you know how it goes.

chiarieds

Again, thank you for keeping us all updated @McKeownOwn

Albus_Scope

@McKeownOwn thanks for the update!  We're keeping everything crossed for you.  

I swear the waiting is the toughest part with these claims. 

annas

Thanks for your update. I changed my circumstances in June 2023 and I forgot to mentioned everything as I done it online . I have got my letter this Saturday but I am out one point for my daily living what I really need more . Should appeal as I need one point as I scored 11 . GP told me to change my circumstances but I forgotten to mention something and I don’t know if I can deal with this stress and waiting time . What I should do ? Thanks for you help .

poppy123456

annas said:

Thanks for your update. I changed my circumstances in June 2023 and I forgot to mentioned everything as I done it online . I have got my letter this Saturday but I am out one point for my daily living what I really need more . Should appeal as I need one point as I scored 11 . GP told me to change my circumstances but I forgotten to mention something and I don’t know if I can deal with this stress and waiting time . What I should do ? Thanks for you help .

I'm assuming this is ADP as that is the thread you posted on. You can challenge the decision by first requesting a Re-determination. https://www.mygov.scot/disagree-decision/how-to-challenge-a-decision

However please do be aware that they will not take into consideration any changes since the decision was made. For this reason it will depend on exactly what it is that you "forgot" to mention. 

McKeownOwn

Apologies it has been a while since I last updated but there was really nothing to say until this point. I had my appeal hearing on Friday 2nd Feb 2024 (that was one very long wait since September 2023!)

It was completed over telephone conference call. And despite assurances that it would be informal and straightforward, it didn't actually feel that way. 

I can only be honest about this from my experience point of view as I think people considering going down this route should have as much information as possible. That's not to say it will be like this for everyone that chooses to appeal.

The call was almost two hours long (extremely draining for me and something that those in charge should look at given the people making the appeal/ in this position).

In attendance was a Chair Person, a Doctor, and a Disability Equalities person. Also present was myself, my Advocacy Support worker, a representative from Social Security Scotland and a clerk. The call was recorded.

The Doctor asked the most questions. They varied in regard to topic but most were about my job - he even went on my work website and questioned my bio and commented on my photograph (that made me feel quite uncomfortable). He went back and forth over all my evidence (all 212 pages) and asked for more information regarding what had been said by both me in my applications and by what had been submitted by my doctors etc.
He asked what my husband did and commented that was rather exotic (it really isn't!).
I was asked about holidays I had been on last year and any that I have planned for this year. For reference, I have nothing booked as of yet but I have been gifted tickets for an event in spring and my sister is getting married in summer - both in England. And I was quizzed on "why I would do that to myself".
He only briefly asked about my symptoms and how they affected me.

The Disability Equalities and Chair persons both asked a couple of questions more specific to my day-to-day. The SSS rep did not ask anything and barely spoke at all during the process.

I did ask at the start of the call for them to clarify if my answers were to be based on my position when I first applied or now, given that nearly 18 months have passed in that time. The Chair person stated I should give both.

After all their questions I was given the opportunity to talk briefly. By this point though my energy levels were low and brain fog was foggy due to exhaustion. My advocacy worker was not given the opportunity to speak (although they did interject at one point with the doctor).

I was asked twice during the process if I wanted to take a short break as I got quite emotional. I chose not to and powered through, as honestly I really felt like I wouldn't have went back on the call if I had taken a break.

They finished the call by advising the panel would go discuss everything and I would find out by letter or email (depending on what format I had chosen originally) within a few days.

I should state that I have several conditions, one being genetic, one as a result of the genetic one, one the result of being female and two because of all of them haha. I am probably going to be dealing with them all for the rest of my life. Some will level out, some will definitely get worse. Hopeful one will get better as I get to grips with the rest. So I am quite a complex case. I imagine though that most that have to go down the appeal route will have similar situations. 

So now I wait for the decision. I will post again with the outcome.

My best advice is to gather as much evidence as possible and keep good notes on the whole process. If you have access to Advocacy Support, definitely get that. If you don't have that, definitely have someone with you during your appeal hearing. Just knowing I had my Advocacy Support on the call with me, helped me feel more confident and calm.

McKeownOwn

Unfortunately my appeal was not granted. Language used in the documents included 'exaggerated', 'inherently probable' and 'unreliable' all due to evidence given by the medical member on the panel.

Feel so frustrated and like I'm back to the days of GPs telling me there was nothing wrong with me. My working status was quoted frequently as reasons why I wasn't eligible. Despite the fact I only work 24hrs a week and 2/3 of those days are at home. 
I enjoy my job greatly and if I didn't work, my mental health would be in a much worse state. 

My understanding of this benefit is to enhance the quality of peoples lives, not to expect them to be in a position where they are to have no life at all.

I have no clue how to take this forward or even if I want to now. This whole process has been exhausting. Now I remember why I was so reluctant to apply in the first place!

Rosie_Scope

Hi @McKeownOwn, I'm really sorry to read this hasn't worked out how you hoped. I resonate so much with that feeling of being told there's nothing wrong, it's a horrible feeling to deal with. 

I hope things start feeling better for you whatever you decide to do next. We're here if you need to chat things through

poppy123456

@McKeownOwn I’m sorry to hear that. You can’t just appeal a Tribunal decision because you think it’s wrong. You can only appeal on error of law. 

The first step to this will be to request the Statement of Reasons and Record of Proceedings within 1 month of the date of the decision from HMCTS. Once you receive those you will need to find someone to take a look to see if they can find the error in law. If they can’t then you won’t be able to proceed any further. 

ADP is pretty much identical to PIP and not about your ability to work. However, if the work you do contradicts the reasons why you’re claiming then it can go against you. I’m not saying your work does contradict it of course because I don’t know anything about your conditions or the work that you do. 

annas

@McKeownOwn so sorry to hear that. 

I won mine due re-determination due to my GP and OT and pain clinic & neurologist. They actually phoned me as they have been stuck with my re-determination due to not enough support I spoke to them and asked them to contact my Gp and the rest as my GP won’t provide me with this information. They did and I was waiting from November until end of January. 

Please do not give up and get so much evidence and support for your application . I know is hard as is so stressful and you are worry about thing and making yourself ill. I was like that as I did not know they needed more information what I provided. 

Good luck and please do not give up. 

I was only 1point away from my enhanced and due to so much support and evidence I scored 14 points . 

If you need anything just message me and I will try to help you if I can  

annas

@McKeownOwn just read about your GP saying is nothing wrong with you ! That’s terrible she/he is not in your body how you feel.  

You have to get apt with GP and speak to them as if they do not support you with your ADP , you won’t able to score your points . Do your have any referrals. Just asking as if your GP doesn’t not support you there is any support you can get from somebody else or even change your doctor. 

So sorry to hear that it must be so stressful and frustrating as nobody listening or helping 

annas

@poppy123456 thank you for all your help. 

I won my re-determination. Glad as it was so stressful and  I was worry about it but I learned a lot know and glad they phoned me to request more info. 

McKeownOwn

Hello everyone, many, many thanks for your kind words and advice. It was greatly appreciated and helped me feel better.

Everyone that has helped me with this so far is as shocked as I am. I guess there is a lot they are still trying to figure out about ADP and it's processes and having a complicated medical situation isn't exactly straightforward either.

I have been advised to make a complaint regarding the medical member on the panel as the comments made on the call and in the appeal response letter were unprofessional. 

I have no idea if there were any errors of law during the call (if I were to guess, I would say no) but the Tribunal admin team did send me highly sensitive documents from someone else case. Which I have also been advised to raise with the ICO. 

Someone else also suggested I apply again but with more specific information from all of my doctors supplied along with application instead of waiting on SSS to contact them. I just don't even know if I can apply again. My situation has worsened since I first applied.

I just don't know if I have anymore paperwork in me tbh. It's been a long slog of 18 months.

Anyhoo, happy Monday and all that jazz.

For anyone that has read this far in my discussion and are in the process of applying/ re-determining/ appealing...I truly wish you the best of luck! In my mind, the more people that learn from us and our lives, the better!