ESA / UC / IB

System

This discussion was created from comments split from: State Pensioners will be paying tax..

Adrian_Scope

WhatThe said:

Hi, no I haven't received the correct benefits for a long time 

I thought a DHP was only for the short term though

Where are you at with having your benefits corrected @WhatThe? Is there anything you need advice on or that we could help with?
DHP are intended for short term use but many people do get them renewed or repeated. It's always worth applying even if it only helps you in the short term.

WhatThe

Thanks Adrian,

Not sure who can help as I've won every PCA appeal and a WCA appeal but they won't pay up! 
I know I should never have met the UC gateway..

I don't want to approach my local authority for a DHP as they lied about my HB being stopped to force me to apply for UC - which did then stop HB of course!

There were underpayments from the date I moved home, rent references changed, HB suspensions and underlying entitlement removed - in other words, sustained persecution by a DWP 'delivery partner'. 

  

WhatThe

I've since learned that I also didn't meet the ESA health gateway test (should not have been referred for the WCA) and that I was not a properly 'notified person'.

Apologies as my post isn't about pensions and income tax only I butted in to say that my national insurance credits have not been awarded correctly since my IB credits were stopped.

2oldcodgers

WhatThe said:

I've since learned that I also didn't meet the ESA health gateway test (should not have been referred for the WCA) and that I was not a properly 'notified person'.

Apologies as my post isn't about pensions and income tax only I butted in to say that my national insurance credits have not been awarded correctly since my IB credits were stopped.

Sounds normal to me and par for the course where both the DWP and HMRC are involved.

chiarieds

Hi @WhatThe - I'll tag @Adrian_Scope to see if he can help, thank you Adrian. Your previous post may also be relevant: https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/720186#Comment_720186

When you mention 'gateways,' @WhatThe are you perhaps thinking back to the 'threshold' of incapacity that's mentioned with IB, as I can't find mention of 'gateways/a gateway test'? Perhaps if you could give a timeline about the benefits you've received, & where & why you think your National Insurance credits are wrong, that may be helpful.

WhatThe

Hi and thank you,

I can't find the relevant info about the gateway health tests atm either, sorry.

Class 1 credits ended in 2007/8 although I have a letter stating I was entitled to them until 2011 when my claim was converted to ESA 

Have I misunderstood something?

poppy123456

WhatThe said:

Hi and thank you,

I can't find the relevant info about the gateway health tests atm either, sorry.

Class 1 credits ended in 2007 although I have a letter stating I was entitled to them until 2011 when my claim was converted to ESA 

Have I misunderstood something?

If you were migrated to ESA from IB then you should have also been receiving class 1 NI credits for your ESA claim. Part of your ESA claim should have at least been contributions based (when you first claimed).

When you transferred to UC then the IB claim that ended in 2011 will have had no relevance to the UC claim. 

Whether you were entitled to either LCW or LCWRA when you claimed UC will depend on the reasons why you claimed UC and was your ESA claim active when you claimed UC.

WhatThe

It was only IR ESA but Class 1 Credits stopped being awarded long before that. My claim was not correctly migrated and as mentioned elsewhere, a 'conversion decision' was made 3 times in my case!

I wasn't transferred to UC but forced to claim when ESA was stopped again. Made that UC claim within a month but it remains unpaid despite DWP telling us a first claim is never unsuccessful. 

Thanks

poppy123456

WhatThe said:

I wasn't transferred to UC but forced to claim when ESA was stopped again. Made that UC claim within a month but it remains unpaid despite DWP telling us a first claim is never unsuccessful. 

Thanks

No one is automatically transferred. Why did your ESA stop? It's not about your ESA ending within a month, it's whether you were still entitled to it, even if it was just a NI credits only claim.

WhatThe

IB/IS and ESA claims repeatedly "closed in error" before and after every appeal. Class 1 Credits paid until 2007/8 then Class 3 between 2008 and 2016 and nothing until 2021/2022

(continuously entitled to disability benefits, yes!)

As far as my local authority is concerned, I began to receive UC(JSA) on 1 April 2013 as notified by DWP 

poppy123456

It's impossible to offer any kind of advice unless you give more information. "closed in error" isn't helping. Why did your ESA claim close in error? what reason did DWP give for this?

I don't need to know about IB/IS, it's the ESA i'm asking about because this is what counts for your UC claim.

JSA is not part of UC, they are 2 completely different benefits. If you claimed UC in 2013 then you must have been one of the first to claim when it was known as "live service."

WhatThe

I declined to have my IB claim migrated to ESA for a third time in 2016. The IBR team insisted it had not been converted

I didn't claim UC in 2013 - not eligible 

"Closed in error" were the only reasons ever given until then

poppy123456

You refused to migrate from IB to ESA? You eventually did claim ESA correct?

In a previous thread you said this..

'Unsuccessful' UC claim made within six months of an ESA(JSA) award incl component and before April 2017 - still unpaid which I understood was not allowed to happen for a first claim to UC. Quoted from this thread here.

chiarieds said:

Your previous post may also be relevant: https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/720186#Comment_720186

I don't understand that comment because it seems like part of what you were trying to say is missing. Why was your UC claim unsuccessful?

When you claimed UC were you still claiming ESA? or were you receiving NI credits based on LCW?

WhatThe

Yes, IS/IB claim was migrated to ESA in 2011

Claimed UC in 2017 - ESA was stopped and started twice in 2016 then stopped again in 2017. I had refused to cooperate with another migration exercise and my local authority pretended that HB payments had ended to make me claim UC.

First UC claim 'closed' without a journal so I've no idea. This is my third claim. Second claim was subject to MIF though never self-employed - that claim ended when I refused to pretend to be self-employed

WhatThe

I have a fairly recent DWP letter stating I was entitled to Class 1 Credits until 2011 when ESA was put into payment

My incapacity claim was due for review in 2010 and then it all went wrong 

poppy123456

-scratches head- it's not very often that benefit related issues leave me baffled but this issue has. I really don't know how it's possible for you to have needed to migrate to ESA from IB multiple times. If Welfare Rights couldn't help you then that leaves little hope for me. I don't know if Adrian will see this and be able to offer some advice, hopefully he will.

WhatThe

Baffling indeed. 

The chaos began when I changed address in 2008 before ESA was introduced.
Since then I've apparently reported many other CoC's..

I've received mandatory referrals to Pathways to Work, Work Programme (twice), London Capital and now Restart 
    
CAB helped me make a rapid reclaim and it took 14 weeks for payment to reach my landlord

chiarieds

Hi @WhatThe - in the hope that this 'may' be relevant. I haven't understood some of the terminology you've used, so have been looking on & off for the past couple of days to try & understand. So there's this, which mentions both 'conversion decisions' & 'notified' person under the 'Conversion' paragraph: https://cpag.org.uk/welfare-rights/resources/article/incapacity-esa   both terms you've used.

Then thinking back to some of the posts/comments you've made, & I think I'm beginning to understand your frustration, there's this about the abolition of the LCW element from 3 Apr 2017 (& for existing UC who have a CoC after this date, & you mention problems apparently having reported many CoCs)

https://www.entitledto.co.uk/help/universal_credit_work_capability_assessment

Also there's a problem somewhere with your NI credits. Have you checked about your NI record? Please see:https://www.gov.uk/check-national-insurance-record   could you then say which years, & what NI credits you have.

As I say, I don't know if any of this will be remotely helpful, but it would be great if you could get this sorted.

With apologies Adrian for tagging you again, but can you help @Adrian_Scope Thank you again, & again & again.

WhatThe

Hi chiarieds and thank you,

From your link -

..incapacity benefits awards will be converted to ESA, provided they satisfy the normal ESA rules, including the WCA. They will not, however, be required to make a fresh claim for ESA.
 
awards of IS will be converted to awards of income-related ESA (although, arguably, the rules are a little imprecise about this)

I didn't report any CoCs during this time - it's what DWP recorded, that's all, and moving home was not one. Looking back at my documents, I can see a series of 'new' claims (started under new rules) even before my move. 

I got the info about not being a 'notified' person from a similar article recently and I don't believe I was properly notified.

In 2011, I received an IBM01 notice then another in 2012 so there's no doubt that the migration exercise was duplicated. The IBR team in 2016 insisted my IB claim was not yet converted.

I was in receipt of the LCW element before 3 April 2017, yes. 

Class 1 Credits paid until 2007/8 then Class 3 between 2008 and 2016 and nothing until 2021/2022

HMRC has been really helpful and I'm waiting for another statement but they insist only DWP can award the credits. 

Adrian_Scope

I've split this off from the discussion about pensions so that it doesn't get lost.

I'm not certain I've completely followed what's happened with your claims so far, @WhatThe. Are you happy for me to ask some questions and work backwards through it to try and understand better and see if we can help you get them back on track?

If so, could you tell me what you're claiming at the moment (I believe it's Universal Credit) and what your current award is, whether that is Fit for Work, LCW or LCWRA. And have you been assessed (had a work capability assessment) since starting your claim for UC? 
 
(Thank you for the tags @chiarieds and @poppy123456)