Hi, my name is Trixiebear! HA refusing permission for a reasonable adjustment

Trixiebear

Both me and my daughter are classed as disabled, mine is type 1 diabetes so not a physical disability but as I have to use medication to stay alive and would die without it I'm classed as disabled. My daughter has scoliosis, she had surgery to ""correct'' it at age 12, she's now 25, this involved fusing metal rods to either side of her spine and although doctors would call it a successful surgery because it stopped the curve from getting worse, it has resulted in arthritis in the bottom of her spine where the metal rods have put pressure on the discs there she also has stage 4 endometriosis, all of these conditions mean she lives with chronic pain, she suffers daily and is on copious amounts of pain relief prescription medication, some days even they don't touch the pain, she's in receipt of pip. Because of what she's coping with she suffers from severe depression and is on anti depressants, she has tried coming off them in the past but found she can't manage mentally without them, believe it or not, it's debatable if her actual medical conditions would put her in the disabled category although the fact she has to take meds everyday and would not be able to lead a normal life without them should be enough, but the depression absolutely does mean she is classed as disabled so she definitely is. 2 years ago we moved into a social housing bungalow, this property has steep steps leading from curbside to the front door and steep steps at the back to get into the back door, so although it's a bungalow it's absolutely not suitable for anyone with mobility issues, the housing association were struggling to find a suitable tenant because, guess what?, its got a wet room in it, there is no way anyone with a wetroom need could live in this house they simply could not manage all the steps (I work in the social housing sector myself so I know the rules) sorry to make it long winded but here they are, if a tenant has been assessed as needing a wetroom - the first thing the housing association need to do is assess the property can it actually be done? Is there room etc etc? Usually the answer is yes, tbh any property can be converted to a wetroom, however HA's don't like to really do it if it would make the property difficult to let in the future, so they should then look for alternative housing for that person, and help them to move into a property that's more suited to their needs, if that's not possible (it usually isn't, waiting to find an alternative home with a wetroom in the area the tenant wants, to become available can take literally years) so the only option is to put the wetroom in, they have to if the tenant has been assessed by an OT as needing it, but what they can't do, when that property becomes void again, is give it to someone who needs a wetroom if it is classed as not suitable for someone with a need for a wetroom, regardless of how well the previous tenant might have managed the steps, they would be housing someone unsuitable if they put someone in here with a wetroom need. So this property was difficult to let and could not be given to someone with a wetroom need, hence why we got it, we don't need a wetroom, what we do need however is a bath, one of the pain management things my daughter has used in the past is a soak in the bath (all of which are recommended by the scoliosis, arthritis and endometriosis societies as ways to manage pain and absolutely works for her) at the viewing I made it clear to the lettings coordinator that we do need a bath and asked if we would be given permission to install one, I'm happy to pay for it and am not now, or have never expected the HA to carry out, or pay for the work, I made it clear this was vital on if we could accept the property or not, she told me with no uncertainty that yes absolutely we would be given permission as this property can't go to someone with a wetroom need, however she then said we have to wait a year until the starter tenancy was up, this threw me a bit, the HA I work for will give assured tenancies to new tenants coming in if a landlord reference shows an excellent housing history, I wasn't expecting to be told I'd be put on a starter as I have a excellent housing history with my previous HA, she even told me my reference was immaculate, but this HA's policy is all new tenants automatically get put on a starter tenancy, fair enough if that's their policy but it did mean we had to think about daughter managing without a bath for at least a year possibly longer as we had to also factor in getting the money up together to actually pay for it, the solution we came up with was to accept the property as it ticked all our other boxes, buy a tubble (inflatable bath)  and make do with that in the interim, the tubble is OK but it's not a long term sustainable solution, it has to be inflated, deflated, the drainage pipe has to be fed through the wetroom drain, and as we only have a shower head it takes ages to fill, it's a hassle. But we've managed with it and it's OK right, cause we're going to be given permission to install a bath, so we've saved and saved, hello col crusus, we're all feeling that, but finally have the funds to do, I've looked into reputable bathroom fitters near me, I don't want a shoddy cheap job as I'm very aware I'll be responsible for sorting and paying for all future maintenance so am prepared to pay for decent quality items and workmanship. I've found one, gave them a call, they had a months wait to do a quote, then a 5 month wait to do the work, but I figure that's a good thing, if they're busy then that means they're reputable. They also have 5 star reviews. I booked an appointment for a quote. In the meantime I sent the permission request into the HA, confident that it was going to be granted, after all that's what I'd been told at viewing and subsequently by other members of staff from the HA, anyway got the quote from bath company, was happy with it, all ready to book the work, I'm just waiting on permission from the HA, and waiting, and waiting.... finally decided I needed to chase them, this quote was only valid for 1 month and as the bath company have a 5 month lead time I was keen to get it booked ASAP. Rang HA asked if I could get an update on my permission request. Surveyor rang me back next day, permission denied, wait?? What?? The reason? All our bungalows with wetrooms must remain as wetrooms, hang on, I said why have I not been told this before? If I'd have been told that at viewing I never would have taken the property so have I been mislead, is this a potential case of maladministration? I clearly explained to him that this property cannot be given to someone who needs a wetroom so why in gods name would they want to keep a wetroom in here rendering it difficult to let and devaluing it? He couldn't give me a reasonable explanation just kept repeating this policy (which no one else has never mentioned and isn't stated on their aids and adaptation policy, nor their alterations policy) parrot fashion, I then told him about daughters health conditions and how a bath would benefit her, the only option he's given me to remedy this, is to get an OT report stating we need a bath, he made it clear that is all he would accept, he told me, in writing, he won't accept a doctors letter (I've emailed him and made him put this all in writing) I did ask him if he would accept an OT report from a private provider (I bulked when I saw how much they cost) but if it would mean getting it done quickly, I'd pay it, working in the sector I'm very aware that the local authority have a long waiting time for OT reports, no he won't accept anything but an OT report from the local authority. So I did call them, just to get all my ducks in a row, they told me they do have a very long wait time, but also they can't do reports for pain management issues, only mobility type stuff, however they did stress that he should accept a doctors letter, in fact he has to, as it will come from a medical professional so he's misinformed me there, however the fact us, we're not actually asking for a disability adjustment, what we're asking for is to remove the disability adjustment that's already here, return the property to its original state, increase its value and bring it out of the difficult to let category that its currently in. And I'll pay for it for them. So the option he gave me, is unobtainable, the other option he gave me was and I quote "live with it for the next 25 years until you're due an uograde" hang on pal, you've made it very clear it must remain as a wetroom so when upgrade is due, in 25 years, won't you be looking to replace it with a new wetroom? Of course they won't, he also told me that had the bathroom been a lot older and nearing its end of life he probably would have granted permission, so again, is it it must absolutely remain as a wet room, or is it we can disregard that rule if we really want to?? I'm confused anyway I've obviously put in a complaint but I am now wondering if I can go down the reasonable adjustment route, is asking for a bath to be put into a wetroom properties considered a reasonable adjustment if it would make the tenants live easier and help them to manage their medical conditions, I'm thinking yes, and if they're refusing unreasonably that's discrimination under the disability act. Feel so sorry for daughter she visibly crumbled in front of me when I told her they've said no and the hoops we're having to jump through to get this sorted, it's obviously affected her already delicate mental health, she was so looking forward to be able to soak, I know that sounds lame compared to what some people are dealing with but for those suffering with chronic pain, you'll know how hard life can be. Anyway sorry, its a long old rant, but if anyone knows if we can state the reasonable adjustment thing I'd be really interested. 

poppy123456

I'm sorry but i'm finding that impossible to read without any paragraphs and little punctuation. I did manage to read that you're having problems with steps to your bungalow. 

Have you referred yourself or daughter for a needs assessment from your LA? If not then you can do that here.https://www.gov.uk/apply-needs-assessment-social-services

Trixiebear

I have used punctuation, and it's a very long post, but no need for paragraphs.

I've accepted a bungalow with steps,  neither myself or my daughter have mobilty issues, however we are both classed as disabled for other reasons.

This property has a wetroom in it, which is completely useless not function wise, but the housing association can never give this home to someone with mobility issues or needs a wet room so it's pointless being here, in fact it makes the property difficult to let which is a pain for HA's.

I was told at viewing we would be granted permission to install a bath, there would be no problem getting permission at all.

My daughter has chronic pain and we've had to make do with an inflatable bath in the meantime as a soak in hot water helps with her pain management.

I've finally got the funds to pay to get a bath installed have gone to the HA to get permission to make the alterations and they've refused it, on, what I believe, are unreasonable grounds, the bloke at the HA is spouting off about some policy that no other member of their staff had ever mentioned or even seem to know about.

He's told me the only way around it is to get an assessment from the local authority OT, I've called them,  they don't do assessments for pain management so that's not possible. He's also told me a lot of other things that aren't correct so naturally I've put in a complaint and am waiting for them to respond.

I was asking if anyone thinks I could go down the route of stating they are refusing permission for a resonable adjustment for a disabled person therefore they are discriminating against a disabled person under the disability act, I've looked into it a bit more and yes I can, I will use it if I have to

but, the whole point is I shouldn't have to, as I was told at the viewing that permission would definitely be granted and signed a tenancy agreement on that basis, they should honour it, otherwise I've been mislead into signing a tenancy agreement which makes it look like I've been lied to in order for them to get it tenanted and not keep losing revenue on it.

Thanks for the advise but I'm sure they won't beat me on this, I work in social housing so know exactly what they should and shouldn't be doing, it's just a shame they've caused me, and, more importantly,  my daughter, a lot of unnecessary stress. I'll get that bath in here if it's the last thing I do 😀

poppy123456

When you're typing a big long comment like this then yes there's need for paragraphs because it's just too difficult to read. My brain just can't take in all the information. I do wish you good luck though.

Trixiebear

There you go. Hope that helps

poppy123456

Trixiebear said:

There you go. Hope that helps

Sorry but you've lost me here, i don't understand what you mean.

Trixiebear

Oh no! I took your advice on board and put all paragraphs in, then didn't save it , doh! Sorry I'm new here and still getting used to system, I'll try again 🙂 

Trixiebear

Hopefully it's better now, let me know if its still not showing paragraphs. X

poppy123456

Yes, that's better, thanks. You said your daughter has wide spread chronic pain but has no mobility issues so i'm very surprised about that.

When they agreed to this before you accepted the property, did you have that put in writing? I would never sign any tenancy agreement based on something i was told. What was the reason they gave for refusing you to install a bath? difficult to advise without knowing this.

A needs assessment wouldn't be for pain management as such but they will assess her needs.

I really don't know if installing a bath would come under a reasonable adjustment but others may know. It would be totally different if it was the other way round and you wanted to remove the bath to install a walk in shower.

Albus_Scope

Heya @Trixiebearand welcome to the community. How're you today?

I can see you're already getting support from our regulars, but I just wanted to stop by and give you a warm welcome. I'm just going to move your post and rename it, so more people in the know will be able to see it, I hope that's ok?

 If you wanted to hang out or play some games, I recommend our Coffee lounge and new games area. 

Trixiebear

She has endometriosis (stage 4) and scoliosis which has caused arthritis in her lower spine following surgery so her pain is around stomach, pelvis and back area, its not widespread but it is chronic. She also has depression, probably caused by having to live with these conditions and chronic pain, and is partially deaf. Under the disability act she is classed as disabled. 

The reason this one individual at the HA has given for refusal is that all their bungalows with wet rooms have to remain as wet rooms. 

That shouldn't apply to any property that cannot be given to someone with a wetroom need, no HA wants a property on their books that can't be given to someone with a wetroom need, but never the less, has a wetroom in it, they are a pain in the bum, I know, I have quite a few of them on my own patch at work, they are an absolute nightmare to let, you can't give them to someone who has a wetroom need, you can't put anyone with babies or tots in them, because it hard for mums  & dads to shower little ones, and most able bodied people don't want them, don't get me wrong, wet rooms are fantastic for those that need them, they help people to live independently and greatly improve their quality of live, but for people that don't need them they are undesirable. 

No I didn't get it in writing, as I'm fully aware of everything to do with letting social housing properties, of course I scrutinised the tenancy agreement before I signed it, but to be honest most HA tenancies are the same, legally they have to be, you can tweak the rules a little bit, but not much, reason for that is you can't have a social housing tenant living in say Manchester, who doesn't have the same rights, or has more perks than one living in Devon, its all heavily regulated by the government department for housing, and of course I checked their policies surrounding making alterations and aids and adaptations, again this is all heavily regulated, no HAs can go sticking any old rule they like in there, it all has to be fair and legal.

All staff, from the top to the bottom have to be aware of what the policy's are, otherwise they are at risk of giving customers false or incorrect information, it's more than anyones jobs worth to tell a customer something that isn't correct.

This "all our bungalows with wetrooms must be kept as wetrooms" or anything even remotely like it is not stated anywhere in any of these policies, and they have to make their policies accessible to customers, they can't show customers one document then have some little back door policy with different information on it hidden away somewhere.

Anyway I've put in a complaint as they can't refuse permission to make alterations without reasonable cause, this isn't reasonable.

Do they really want to keep a wetroom in a property that can't be given to someone with a wetroom need on their books? Having that in here devalues the property and makes it difficult to let, if I gave my notice and left they'd have the same problem on their hands they had last time, it was stood empty for weeks before I enquired about it, whilst social housing properties are empty the HA is losing money hand over fist, they're losing revenue and are responsible for paying the utilities, most HAs have what they call a voids debt and they are often massive, the objective is to get that as low as possible.

They really don't want this as part of their stock portfolio in its current state, they have a customer here who is willing to pay to put this property back to it's original state, increase its value and take it out of the difficult to let status its currently in and they're saying no, well one of them is, is he mad? 

I'm expecting to get this resolved at complaint stage, I know social housing in and out and have a stock of questions  I want answered, not least about why he's given me a very restricted option to get this resolved which is unobtainable and incorrect. 

But, if they insist with the refusal I absolutely will go down the reasonable adjustments route, I've checked the criteria and this does meet it, especially on the housing ombudsman's website, my daughter is classed as disabled under the disability act, as an organisation that promotes itself as inclusive they really don't want a discrimination against a disabled person hanging over them and financially, it's in their best interest to grant permission now and let me fund it, than to go down that road and end up having to do the work and pay for it themselves which is what they will have to do. 

I'm actually quite looking forward to having the conversation with their complaints person. Despite all the unnecessary stress and anxiety this has caused me and my daughter.