Bringing a dog up as a vegan

66Mustang

I was going to post this on the vegan thread but I thought it was better off as a separate topic.

What do you think about doing this?

Cruel as dogs are naturally meat eaters, or good for the planet/other animals?

vikingqueen

          My cousin who is vegan had a dog, fed it a vegan diet, it died. This was many years ago, maybe things are different now for dog food. 

Jimm_Scope

As someone who is very supportive of veganism, despite not being a vegan myself.

Many pets need meat in their diet. Dogs can have a varied diet, they can eat vegetables for example as they are omnivores like we are, but they still need meat. It is bad to give your pet a diet that does not give them all the nutrients they need.

We humans can live without meat, we are omnivores, but the difference between us and dogs is that dogs cannot produce their own vitamin D for example. They can only get vitamin D through meat, so it's required at least enough of their diet is meat to get enough vitamin D. 

Cats are obligate carnivores, they cannot get all their nutrients from plant matter even more so than dogs.

I do think these things are much rarer than the media makes them out to be, I'm sure last I checked the statistics there is much more physical animal abuse than not giving them a balanced diet, but it's still not something that should be done.

66Mustang

@Jimm_Scope

I appreciate that people who already have animals shouldn't abuse them but based on what you say, is it perhaps better to not have a pet at all?

As I understand it pet food uses cheaper meats which are probably from the more questionable farms.

I wonder how many animals a pet eats in its lifetime?

I have not read about it in the media, so I don't know how common it is in the media, but perhaps the media are trying to use it to discredit veganism. The topic is just something I thought of after seeing some vegan dog treats today, though, I didn't take it from the media.

That said I agree with you, people shouldn't impose human lifestyle choices on animals for the sake of...animals...seems a bit contradictory! Just trying to look at the other side.

Sandy_123

No dogs are meant to eat meat as are cats, 

woodbine

our 11 month old puppy will eat anything you put in front of her, there are two things no dog should be fed one is chocolate the other is grapes, luckily she wont touch chocolate and we never have grapes anyway.
As for bringing up a dog as vegan makes no sense they are meat eaters and it's not for us their human owners to impose something on them that isn't natural for them.

Jimm_Scope

66Mustang said:

@Jimm_Scope

I appreciate that people who already have animals shouldn't abuse them but based on what you say, is it perhaps better to not have a pet at all?

As I understand it pet food uses cheaper meats which are probably from the more questionable farms.

I wonder how many animals a pet eats in its lifetime?

I have not read about it in the media, so I don't know how common it is in the media, but perhaps the media are trying to use it to discredit veganism. The topic is just something I thought of after seeing some vegan dog treats today, though, I didn't take it from the media.

That said I agree with you, people shouldn't impose human lifestyle choices on animals for the sake of...animals...seems a bit contradictory! Just trying to look at the other side.

We have a cat but it's an indoor only cat, we're planning on getting a "catio" when we have our own place so she has a space she can sit outdoors and we have a harness to take her on walks... well they're sort of like walks but unlike with a dog the cat leads the direction of the walk lol. Cats that are indoor-only generally have twice the lifespan of cats that go outdoors unsupervised.

Environmentally yes, pets that eat meat are not the most environmentally friendly, but they bring great benefits to us as human beings. Also the cheaper meat is usually from the same animals that you buy in the store! It's just the parts of the animal we don't prefer, so instead of it going to waste it actually gets used in animal food, lessening waste. 

While I am a cat lover, I really want a rabbit. But since I already have a cat that will have to wait quite a long time. I wouldn't want to put a cat and a rabbit together, though they can coexist and I have seen examples of them co-existing I wouldn't want to risk it. 

I totally understand questioning it though, it's a good thing to question and consider such things!

Biblioklept

I hate that so many discussions now turn so serious, I'd have been really interested in hearing different views!!

I go back and forth on whether imposing your own beliefs on your pets (or even children) is wrong or not. I think it is, but then I get why if you strongly believe something you can't change that for someone else, pet or human.

I think some of the answers here are a bit OTT though!! Some are quite aggressive and leave no room for discussion

University of Wincester study: Vegan diets may be the healthiest to feed pet dogs

https://www.winchester.ac.uk/news-and-events/press-centre/media-articles/vegan-diets-may-be-the-healthiest-to-feed-pet-dogs-say-researchers.php

Jimm_Scope said:

It's cruel and animal abuse to not give your pet the correct diet.

That's quite an extreme comment honestly. Many vegan dog foods are more nutritionally sound than cheaper meat-based dog foods, so are those who can't afford top quality dog food, therefore not giving all the nutrients their dog needs, also animal abusers?

Vegan dogs live longer

Dodd et al. (2022) analysed data from 1,189 dog owners, of which 357 had been fed vegan food exclusively for at least 3 years overall. The researchers found that vegan dogs had better health including less issues with their vision, digestive and liver conditions. Not only did vegan dogs have better health overall, but also they were found to live 1.5 years longer than non-vegan dogs. The study indicated that on average, dogs given plant based food lived up to the age of 14.1 years compared to dogs eating meat diets who largely lived up to 12.6 years.

Jimm_Scope

Biblioklept said:

Jimm_Scope said:

It's cruel and animal abuse to not give your pet the correct diet.

That's quite an extreme comment honestly. Many vegan dog foods are more nutritionally sound than cheaper meat-based dog foods, so are those who can't afford top quality dog food, therefore not giving all the nutrients their dog needs, also animal abusers?

Sorry, that statement is quite ambiguous.

If there is vegan dog food that gives all the nutrients then that is of course not cruel or abuse. I know there are some foods that are fortified with nutrients. I believed Mustang was talking specifically about the people who do not get specialist food but only try to feed their dogs fruit and veg. I was under the impression that vegan dog-food tends to be more expensive due to needing to be fortified and not everyone afford to keep their dog vegan while also getting it all it's nutrients.

I am not a dog lover (I like them, but strongly prefer cats), so I am less knowledgeable about it than say, cat food. I'm always happy to be corrected if I've said something ignorant and sorry if my words were upsetting @Biblioklept

Edit: My original words were on the more extreme side, I've edited them to be less extreme. 

bookrabbit

Cats need meat but dogs don't. However they do need the right nutrients and rather than winging a vegan diet I think it would be important to use a properly formulated balanced one. Vegetarian dog foods have certainly been around for a long time and many dogs have lived healthy lives on them.
I find the idea of keeping an animal by feeding it on other animals completely disgusting. But then I find the idea of eating the corpses of other feeling living beings to be disgusting too. 
I'm not fully vegan but I am nearly due to allergies to dairy products. If I were able I would eat organic dairy because the ethical standards are higher however if I do my health deteriorates so I usually don't.
B12 is a problem but there are vegan sources. I currently inject it regularly because I don't seem to absorb it well from oral supplements. Vitamin D has a vegan version too, I take that too.
I am sure vegan dog food could be adequately supplemented with both. The main drawback I suspect would be cost as it would undoubtedly be ridiculously expensive. The vegetarian ones are probably a better all around bet. Better ethically than meat, better for the climate than meat, but more realistically affordable.

WelshBlue

Interesting thread

Until we had Ruudy the Rampager, I hadn't realised how sensitive dogs stomach are, and how individual they are with what unsettles their stomachs.  After trying different kibbles, pouches etc we've settled on what he's happy digesting.

A typical meal is boiled white rice, poached chicken breast, carrots, butternut squash, cucumber, grain free kibble and a shot of fish oil

He's healthy, thriving and an absolute bull ... meant to be pure Cocker Spaniel ... I think he's part Shire horse, Tasmanian Devil and a lil' bit of Spaniel

Nutritional meals are what's important ?

Jimm_Scope

My partners old family dog loved sweet potato, and it is very good for their digestive system apparently!

Ada

My Betty is a small yorkie with a very delicate tummy. If I gave her beef pork lamb etc she would be quite poorly which came apparent with trail and error. She has chicken n veg. And sometimes with rice. The only meat that doesn’t upset her tummy is chicken. Everything else does. 
 I always state she didn’t chose us we I chose her. So I may sit here freezing on a daily basis but after rent she comes first. I buy her very expensive dog food that has no wheat cereals only good chicken and veg. And she’s a very healthy young nine year old. When I can I buy her fresh cooked chicken breast as her treats. 
I guess what helps is she’s tiny so doesn’t eat loads which helps with cost. Considering her pet plan insurance is extremely high. 
But she is very healthy on Only chicken the rest is just to strong for her tummy. 
BTW she doesn’t yap or even barks very much often. She’s very chilled friendly little dog. 
My whole my whole life. If her tummy could take other meats I would buy it for her even though I only eat chicken. 

woodbine

I remember going back a few years that if a dog had an upset stomach they always said feed them "chappie" as it was mainly veg and no meat, not sure if they still make it though.

Ada

Yes @woodbine Folk have to read the tin. I completely understand buying the cheapest tins. Problem is they bulk it out with wheat//cereal 

Ada

I adore cats also. And if I could afford the insurance I would get Betty a playmate. She does get the company of my landlords x2 dogs quite often 

JessieJ

Dogs have canine teeth for a reason. they are carnivores, if in the wild, they would eat a mainly meat diet with some vegetable or fruit matter along the way. All the dogs I've ever had, have had a mainly meat diet, with some veg. IMVHO I don't think they should have a vegan diet, that is human control & against their nature.

@Jimm_Scope, I had a rabbit, a cat & 2 dogs, they all used to play together & chase madly, the rabbit used to take a short cut under the coffee table. The cat & rabbit used to play hide & seek, it was hilarious, when one or t'other was found, they both used to jump in the air.

Jimm_Scope

That sounds really cute @JessieJ, I'd love to have a rabbit and cat at the same time but I've seen the way my cat looks at birds... I'd just be so worried and anxious for the rabbit. My cat was a stray for a few years so did have to learn to survive by hunting.

JessieJ

Jimm_Scope said:

That sounds really cute @JessieJ, I'd love to have a rabbit and cat at the same time but I've seen the way my cat looks at birds... I'd just be so worried and anxious for the rabbit. My cat was a stray for a few years so did have to learn to survive by hunting.

It really was! My cat was born feral but soon got used to the dogs & then the rabbit. Rabbits can take care of themselves when bigger, any rough & tumble, their strong back legs come into play. Then they all jumped!

Just to stay on thread, my rabbit was vegan.

Ada

@Jimm_Scope
 I know someone who had a rabbit and puppy. They didn’t have a common sense. The rabbit kicked the puppy so hard it twisted it’s intestines and after trying to save it for couple weeks poor thing died.
I adore rabbits and had a indoor free roaming rabbit who I dearly loved. But when we took in a stray cat who I fell in love with. Decided the risk of my rabbit kicking the cat was to much of a risk so found a safer home for the cat. 

michael57

being an old farm person myself my working collies were fed on raw chicken with the bones and they are fine unless cooked milk at milking time and biscuits add lib as for organic milk or meat farmers still us the same antibiotics as a none organic farmer for yearly vaccinations for medical reasons its the same drugs as a standard farm only organic farms meat and milk withdrawal times are longer