Tribunal - rejection

KaliB

So I finally had my tribunal today, after about 51 weeks of waiting.

Unfortunately, my appeal was rejected. Obviously I have to accept this, but I do feel like it was the wrong decision. I was asked only a few questions by the panel, and they were quite specific but I had already answered these in the appeal paperwork. So the questioning didn't really allow me to expand much. There was a fair but of "well, why didn't you/haven't you tried X, Y or Z" type questions, so I did feel like I was defending myself a fair bit.

The DWP actually sent a representative, which did surprise me. And it was quite off-putting when he was sat next to me and I could see/hear him tapping away constantly on his laptop. His questions to me were also quite direct, leaving not a lot of scope for expanding, and were basically statements about how I could do all these different things because I drive a car and have a job (which I have to struggle to do as I don't really fancy being homeless).
I'm sure he is a nice man, and he was just doing his job. But it was frustrating and made me a bit angry when he thanked me for coming at the end after the judge told me they were rejecting my appeal.

So a bit of a pointless and wasted day really 

Rosie_Scope

Hi @KaliB, sorry you didn't get the result you were hoping for, that sounds really disappointing after such a long wait.

Have you had any contact with Citizens Advice? If you feel up to getting in contact, they might be able to advise you whether you have grounds to go to a higher appeal. 

Take it easy, it's such a tough process to go through sometimes We're here if you need to vent about things

poppy123456

I'm sorry to hear this. Sometimes there is a DWP rep at a hearing. Did you already have a PIP award before the hearing? Did you lose that award or still have that in place? If you lost that then they should have warned you before removing any points.

KaliB

Rosie_Scope said:

Hi @KaliB, sorry you didn't get the result you were hoping for, that sounds really disappointing after such a long wait.

Have you had any contact with Citizens Advice? If you feel up to getting in contact, they might be able to advise you whether you have grounds to go to a higher appeal. 

Take it easy, it's such a tough process to go through sometimes We're here if you need to vent about things

I've tried to contact CA over the last year, with very little luck.
I've accepted that it is what it is, and will just have to move forwards.

KaliB

poppy123456 said:

I'm sorry to hear this. Sometimes there is a DWP rep at a hearing. Did you already have a PIP award before the hearing? Did you lose that award or still have that in place? If you lost that then they should have warned you before removing any points.

I have an award for the daily portion, the lower award. I thankfully didn't lose any points, which was something that I started to worry about during the tribunal. But I wasn't appealing any of the areas that I gained points in, as I felt that they were the correct points. It was some areas where I scored 0 that I was appealing - especially the mobility sections.

poppy123456

That's good to hear you didn't lose points. I just needed to check because they would have had to give you a warning before removing points anyway.

You can only appeal the decision on error of law. For this you'll need to request the statement of reasons and record of proceedings within 1 month of the date of the decision. Once you receive those you need to find someone to take a look to see if they can find the error in law. If they can't then you won't be able to proceed any further.

MW123

KaliB said:

So I finally had my tribunal today, after about 51 weeks of waiting.

Unfortunately, my appeal was rejected. Obviously I have to accept this, but I do feel like it was the wrong decision. I was asked only a few questions by the panel, and they were quite specific but I had already answered these in the appeal paperwork. So the questioning didn't really allow me to expand much. There was a fair but of "well, why didn't you/haven't you tried X, Y or Z" type questions, so I did feel like I was defending myself a fair bit.

The DWP actually sent a representative, which did surprise me. And it was quite off-putting when he was sat next to me and I could see/hear him tapping away constantly on his laptop. His questions to me were also quite direct, leaving not a lot of scope for expanding, and were basically statements about how I could do all these different things because I drive a car and have a job (which I have to struggle to do as I don't really fancy being homeless).
I'm sure he is a nice man, and he was just doing his job. But it was frustrating and made me a bit angry when he thanked me for coming at the end after the judge told me they were rejecting my appeal.

So a bit of a pointless and wasted day really 

@KaliB It sounds like you have been through a difficult time. I was awarded PIP standard daily living in 2018 for three years. In 2020, due to really struggling more with my mobility, I applied again hoping to get awarded mobility. It came back with me being awarded the same standard daily living; no higher award or mobility award. Next review was set for 2023. I did not appeal the 2020 decision just accepted it. I'll be honest; I did wonder what I had to do to convince them. 

Fast forward to March 2022, the review form arrives. This time, I trawled through all of the posts Poppy had made in Scope relating to PIP and the message I was getting was so clear. I had concentrated too much on my conditions, not enough on explaining the problems I encountered when I tried to complete the activity. Armed with this new knowledge, I completed the form. 

It was over a year before I heard anything, out of the blue, I had a voicemail message to contact them regarding my review. I rang the number with great trepidation they just asked if my medication had changed since I filled in the form. The beginning of August 2023, a few days after that call, I was awarded enhanced daily living and enhanced mobility for ten years they had done a paper based review no assessment required. I also work 30 hours a week and drive a car, so I do not think it is working or driving that went against you at the tribunal. I know my problem was not understanding the form. I'm not implying that you didn't understand your form, but perhaps consider reapplying with a different approach. I am not sure if there is a time restriction after tribunal before you can reapply but I am sure Poppy will know.

poppy123456

As you already have a PIP award, you can't reapply. You will need to report a change of health condition. You will be sent more forms to fill in and return. Another assessment is most likely because most people have them. Paper based assessments are possbile but rare.

Once a decision is made your award could either remain the same, be increased or stopped completely.

I agree with @MW123 a lot of people tend to concentrate on the condition itself rather than difficulties you have. 

It also helps to have some understanding of the descriptors and what they mean. Many people think they can score more points than is actually possible. Having difficulties with everyday things doesn't automatically entitle you to more points for a higher award. Have a read of this and it may help. https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria

There's also a lot of threads here with so much advice and information from many members, it maybe worth having a read through them.