Confused about self-employment status for UC purposes.

Commanded2bwell

Hello. When I was migrated to UC last year, I was told I could not be considered "gainfully self-employed" for the purposes of UC because I had not recorded a profit from my self employment in the month prior to making my claim.

Since then I have been granted LCWRA status which, as I understand it, probably precludes me being "gainfully" self-employed: I can work if and when I choose, but there is no requirement to make a profit in order to preserve my status as self-employed.

After getting LCWRA, I noticed I was still getting messages about reporting my income, as if UC thought I was self-employed. So, confused, I asked on the journal if I still needed to report my income considering that my work coach had originally told me I couldn't be considered gainfully self-employed due to the lack of profit, and considering that I was now LCWRA.

Basically, me no longer being self-employed is all their idea, not mine.

In response to this question, I have now had a message saying that if I no longer consider myself self-employed, I need to report this under the 'Work and Earnings' section.

But... er... does anyone else see the logic problem with this? I was happy to carry on being self-employed, but the DWP have told me that absent a recent record of profit, I can't be, and now they're saying if I choose not to be, they have to tell me.

I'm confused.

I'm also paranoid. What might happen if I report it under Work and Earnings? What new bureaucracy might this trigger?

WhatThe

Yes. Do nothing. 

Adrian_Scope

Hello @Commanded2bwell.
In order to help you, I think the most important question I can ask is: are you or have you been earning anything at all from self-employment since you migrated to UC? 

Being found “gainfully” self-employed is not about whether or not you can be self-employed. It’s a determination UC make to decide whether or not to apply the minimum income floor and for work search requirements.

Now you have LCWRA, the minimum income floor and work search aren’t relevant to your claim. 

However, if you are still working self-employed, alongside your UC and LCWRA (which you are allowed to do), you need to report your earnings each month to UC.

If you’re not earning anything or working self-employed then you would report the change to UC that you are no longer working.

Commanded2bwell said:

 I was happy to carry on being self-employed, but the DWP have told me that absent a recent record of profit, I can't be, and now they're saying if I choose not to be, they have to tell me.

Them deciding you were not “gainfully” self-employed is not them saying you are not self-employed and can’t work self-employed. It’s sort of them saying you are not earning enough from self-employment for them to consider it your main job or income source. 

Commanded2bwell said:

I'm also paranoid. What might happen if I report it under Work and Earnings? What new bureaucracy might this trigger?

As you have LCWRA, if you are not working self-employed and don’t intent to return to it, reporting that you’re not working under the work and earnings section shouldn’t impact your claim other than to mean that they will no longer ask you to report your earnings each month. 

carbow32

I am down as self employed with LCWRA (selling some hobby craft items).

When I first told them, they sent a letter to my journal telling me it wasn't gainfully employment but I would still have to send them figures.

I get a reminder they day before my last day for the assessment period.  I enter everything whether it's at a profit, loss or zero.  My statement tends to arrive the day after and my money goes in the bank about 6 days later.

My only concern is it going against me at reassessment.

Commanded2bwell

In terms of my ambition to earn money, yes, certainly. But I cannot currently envision a situation in which I can earn enough to significantly offset my UC. Whatever I do earn will be sporadic and vary a great deal in amount. That's the nature of the business I was in (as a freelance) and still dabble in when I get the chance. So, in order to keep this option open, but without knowing when and how much this option might earn in the future, I suppose I must continue to submit earnings reports, even if most of them are zero. Correct?

WhatThe

Yes or you will be reporting a change of circumstances (CoC) where there isn't one