Confused about self-employment status for UC purposes.

Commanded2bwell

Hello. When I was migrated to UC last year, I was told I could not be considered "gainfully self-employed" for the purposes of UC because I had not recorded a profit from my self employment in the month prior to making my claim.

Since then I have been granted LCWRA status which, as I understand it, probably precludes me being "gainfully" self-employed: I can work if and when I choose, but there is no requirement to make a profit in order to preserve my status as self-employed.

After getting LCWRA, I noticed I was still getting messages about reporting my income, as if UC thought I was self-employed. So, confused, I asked on the journal if I still needed to report my income considering that my work coach had originally told me I couldn't be considered gainfully self-employed due to the lack of profit, and considering that I was now LCWRA.

Basically, me no longer being self-employed is all their idea, not mine.

In response to this question, I have now had a message saying that if I no longer consider myself self-employed, I need to report this under the 'Work and Earnings' section.

But... er... does anyone else see the logic problem with this? I was happy to carry on being self-employed, but the DWP have told me that absent a recent record of profit, I can't be, and now they're saying if I choose not to be, they have to tell me.

I'm confused.

I'm also paranoid. What might happen if I report it under Work and Earnings? What new bureaucracy might this trigger?

WhatThe

Yes. Do nothing. 

Adrian_Scope

Hello @Commanded2bwell.
In order to help you, I think the most important question I can ask is: are you or have you been earning anything at all from self-employment since you migrated to UC? 

Being found “gainfully” self-employed is not about whether or not you can be self-employed. It’s a determination UC make to decide whether or not to apply the minimum income floor and for work search requirements.

Now you have LCWRA, the minimum income floor and work search aren’t relevant to your claim. 

However, if you are still working self-employed, alongside your UC and LCWRA (which you are allowed to do), you need to report your earnings each month to UC.

If you’re not earning anything or working self-employed then you would report the change to UC that you are no longer working.

Commanded2bwell said:

 I was happy to carry on being self-employed, but the DWP have told me that absent a recent record of profit, I can't be, and now they're saying if I choose not to be, they have to tell me.

Them deciding you were not “gainfully” self-employed is not them saying you are not self-employed and can’t work self-employed. It’s sort of them saying you are not earning enough from self-employment for them to consider it your main job or income source. 

Commanded2bwell said:

I'm also paranoid. What might happen if I report it under Work and Earnings? What new bureaucracy might this trigger?

As you have LCWRA, if you are not working self-employed and don’t intent to return to it, reporting that you’re not working under the work and earnings section shouldn’t impact your claim other than to mean that they will no longer ask you to report your earnings each month. 

carbow32

I am down as self employed with LCWRA (selling some hobby craft items).

When I first told them, they sent a letter to my journal telling me it wasn't gainfully employment but I would still have to send them figures.

I get a reminder they day before my last day for the assessment period.  I enter everything whether it's at a profit, loss or zero.  My statement tends to arrive the day after and my money goes in the bank about 6 days later.

My only concern is it going against me at reassessment.

Commanded2bwell

In terms of my ambition to earn money, yes, certainly. But I cannot currently envision a situation in which I can earn enough to significantly offset my UC. Whatever I do earn will be sporadic and vary a great deal in amount. That's the nature of the business I was in (as a freelance) and still dabble in when I get the chance. So, in order to keep this option open, but without knowing when and how much this option might earn in the future, I suppose I must continue to submit earnings reports, even if most of them are zero. Correct?

WhatThe

Yes or you will be reporting a change of circumstances (CoC) where there isn't one

jsjswood

My work coach told me earlier this year that I'm not allowed to be self employed anymore but I know that if I do she expects me to do, I will be job searching until I retire, because I know that there aren't many employers who will take on an Autistic person because of the adjustments they would have to make but I also have osteoarthritis as well so they would also have to make adjustments for that. The only type of job I would probably be able to do would be office work. I don't have any experience of office work

poppy123456

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/873185#Comment_873185

Why did your work coach tell you that?

jsjswood

I haven't bothered to ask because my work coach would probably ignore me but that comes with being autistic or I get treated as I'm stupid

poppy123456

@MissMel If found to have either LCW/LCWRA then the minimum income floor doesn't apply but you need to go through the work capability assessment first and wait for a decision to be made first.

However, if you're found to be gainfully self employed you will have a 12 month start up period where the minimum income floor will not apply in that time.

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/895293#Comment_895293

That's not correct. You can be gainfully self employed and still be referred for a WCA providing your earnings are less than 16 x NMW/week. If they are more than this then you can't be referred unless you're claiming a disability benefit.

carbow32

I don't have any hassle with mine at all. I was in receipt of LCWRA. I registered as self employed. They sent me a journal message saying it was not gainful self employment as I receive LCWRA. I didn't receive a phone call or have to go to a meeting.

I tell them income and expenditure on my last assessment date each month. Then my payment goes through a few days later.

My worries are it going against me at reassessment though because I only earn about £20 a week.

carbow32

I don't think half of them have an absolute clue what they are talking about. Definitely with the LCWRA you should be left alone.

I am off with substantial risk so I don't know if they could say well you earn £20 so that shows it is not a substantial risk. I am waiting to see what this labour lot come out with and may bang it on the head. They are not screwing me over coz I can earn £20 a week. I am covered by continence so might have to do down that route not exactly what I would want to put pen to paper about but so be it.

I think you should maybe get independent advice and let them know what is what. They quite clearly do not know what is what.

WhatThe

…former Health Secretary under Blair