UC compliance ongoing for 5 months

MW123

JaneyJo said:

Does anyone know what the scope of an A42 form is? As I’m struggling to prove this account is not mine they have suggested I fill this out. They wouldn’t however tell me if this gives access to all my accounts or for how long? I’m happy to try myself but my mental health can make it very difficult to be constantly calling and chasing banks. 

If this form makes my life easier I’m happy for them to do it but the vague answers over what this allows is causing me some anxiety. I have tried googling before I bother you all again but I’m still finding nothing 

An A42 form, also known as a Request to Disclose Information Form, is a document that individuals can use to request information about their own financial accounts or transactions from financial institutions. This form is typically used by authorities, such as the DWP, to obtain information about an individual's financial accounts that may be relevant to a specific case or inquiry.

The scope of an A42 form may vary depending on the specific situation and the purpose for which it is being used. For example, if an A42 form is being used by the DWP to determine if a specific ISA account is owned by an individual receiving benefits, then the form may only cover information about that specific ISA account. However, if the form is being used to obtain information about all of an individual's financial accounts or transactions, then the information obtained may be more extensive and may be subject to a longer time frame.

It is of utmost importance that you unequivocally ensure that only the ISA account that you have already informed them is not yours the subject of this investigation is the only account accessed under the A42.

JaneyJo

That’s exactly what I’m querying with them. As talking to the compliance officer it seemed she wanted me to allow her to access every account I have ever had or currently have. Now whilst I have zero to hide and the result
for her will be the same as for me ie no account exists if it allows them access to everything for as long as they want then I’m not going to sign it. 

She is taking my not signing or asking questions regarding the form as a sign of guilt though.
”I can get your information myself with one call”
and yet she’s spent months hounding me for the information. So either she can get the information , in which case why has she not? Or she’s on a fishing trip and not being truthful with me.
CAB have advised that I don’t sign it but supply a letter from the bank stating I do not have this account. 

The problem is I have already done this and it’s still not good enough. I think I am this compliance officers hobby at this point

MW123

@JaneyJo

I suggest following the advice of the Citizens Advice and not complete the form. The compliance officer has already received a letter from your bank confirming that the ISA in question is not yours. I am puzzled as to why they linked you to an ISA that doesn't belong to you in the first place. Have you inquired with them about the evidence or information that led them to believe it was yours?  

The compliance officer has inadvertently overlooked a crucial detail,  the submission of Form A42 does not confer an absolute right to obtain personal information pertaining to the bona fide ISA account holder. Should the account exist the disclosure of such data would constitute a grave infringement upon the privacy and fundamental rights of the legitimate account holder. In all likelihood, the inquiry will only yield further confirmation that the account is not associated with you.

It's also a good idea to regularly check your credit report to make sure all the information is correct. Mistakes can happen, your credit report could be wrong and linking you to someone else's financial accounts. 

JaneyJo

They said it was a data match. I thought it might be a ppi refund I recieved so sent in that info. But she still says that she “knows” the account is mine. I wish it was as I’d have some savings! 

I had this same issue last year and submitted the same letter saying it’s not mine.
she keeps saying she’ll just get the info but then asks me to do it which confuses me further, if she has proof this is mine (it’s not) then surely I’d have an IUC interview instead of this constant back and forward

MW123

@JaneyJo

A data match can offer valuable insights, yet its reliability hinges on factors like data accuracy, algorithm dependability, and the context of application. If this situation stemmed from a data match, inquire  with the DWP about the systems employed to associate you with the ISA account.  

The bank has already confirmed that the account does not belong to you. They must not make allegations without clear evidence that this ISA belongs to you. You should not have to persistently disprove the same unsubstantiated allegation. The burden of proof lies with the DWP to make their case transparently and unambiguously. 

I'm curious if the DWP is currently testing their new system to check claimant's bank accounts. If they are, it raises concerns about the potential implications. 

JaneyJo

All she will tell me is “it’s a data match” I told her the exact same thing happened in 2022. I provided a letter then stating all my accounts, and any id held previously. 

“Well it’s come up again so obviously you weren’t truthful”
I spoke with her this morning and said “as you won’t tell me the scope of the A42 form I won’t  be signing it, “
her response was “well in that case the department will have to assume the account is indeed yours.”

Really? I provide an official bank letter showing all account numbers (from my branch manager) and I’m still guilty. 

I can’t disprove a negative. I can’t get statements or tell them who this account belongs to the bank obviously won’t entertain that.

i spoke with the branch manager today who also said she’s lying about “one call and I’ll get your bank statements “ 
He said it’s actually a complicated process, not as she’s suggesting. 

If they are testing their new system on me, god help everyone. 

JaneyJo

Another note for people, they can see where you log into your UC account from, I assume via IP addresses.
this morning she asked “why are you in London can I ask” 
I replied that I wasn’t. “Well I can see where you are from your log in information “
im nowhere near London so why on earth my IP is showing that I don’t know but I suspect this is also going to be something I have to disprove (which I can with bank transactions etc)

JaneyJo

Apparently they can see how when and where you log in. But we all know IP addresses are not accurate. So this is now another thing I’m having to disprove . 

My bank statements show where I have spent money or withdrawn money but again this is not “required proof” I suggested a picture of me at my own front door but “that could be taken at anytime”

im at my wits end 

OverlyAnxious

letitbe said:

JaneyJo said:

Another note for people, they can see where you log into your UC account from, I assume via IP addresses.
this morning she asked “why are you in London can I ask” 
I replied that I wasn’t. “Well I can see where you are from your log in information “
im nowhere near London so why on earth my IP is showing that I don’t know but I suspect this is also going to be something I have to disprove (which I can with bank transactions etc)

WHAT ???? 

They actually know when we log in ? And they know where we log in from ? This is UNBELIEVABLE 

Yes, this is not new information.  They use it to determine whether a claimant is in the UK or not.  For this reason, it's best to never use a VPN to access the UC journal.

OverlyAnxious

JaneyJo said:

im at my wits end 

Sorry I don't have any advice for your situation, but wanted to say I'm genuinely shocked at the way this compliance officer is acting towards you.

It's way beyond the incompetence that I've come to expect from gov't services and seems to be a personal vendetta.

This is the sort of experience that makes me reluctant to contact the DWP for anything at all.

JaneyJo

But the dwp must realise IP addresses are not reliable, I’ve just checked mine and it’s showing me as 40 odd miles away from where I actually am. So yet again I have to disprove an allegation with no clear means as to how to do it

poppy123456

OverlyAnxious said:

letitbe said:

JaneyJo said:

Another note for people, they can see where you log into your UC account from, I assume via IP addresses.
this morning she asked “why are you in London can I ask” 
I replied that I wasn’t. “Well I can see where you are from your log in information “
im nowhere near London so why on earth my IP is showing that I don’t know but I suspect this is also going to be something I have to disprove (which I can with bank transactions etc)

WHAT ???? 

They actually know when we log in ? And they know where we log in from ? This is UNBELIEVABLE 

Yes, this is not new information.  They use it to determine whether a claimant is in the UK or not.  For this reason, it's best to never use a VPN to access the UC journal.

Yes, there’s been a couple of members here that were accused of being out of the country when they weren’t. They were asked to send a picture of their self outside their house holding their passport. 

JaneyJo

This is my latest journal message 

"Good morning ******. The department can and are able to infer from your lack of engagement with the

A42 form that this account is indeed yours. If it is not simply signing this will enable me to prove to a level I am happy with that it is not yours. Perhaps we should just start to be truthful, if you admit the account is yours we can work out your overpayment and this situation can end. At this stage you are the only person prolonging this review with your persistent hospital admissions and refusal to allow the department to do the necessary checks. I have sent out further A42 forms today and will be in contact with your branch. I will be in touch shortly

I’m not signing a blank A42 form she won’t allow me to write the dates and account numbers (the very ones she’s provided) but if I don’t I’m guilty 

JaneyJo

Also I should add my branch manager has written me a letter (headed paper the lot) with a list of all acc numbers I have ever held. That’s who she wants to call but he is saying without a court order it’s not possible for him to discuss my accounts or lack of.
so I’m not “frustrating” the process I cannot change the law to suit her

JaneyJo

You can be out of the country for 3 months on pip but for UC it’s 4 weeks (longer if for authorised medical attention) 

they can request your bank statements and I know they have these new powers going through but as far as I’m aware and have been informed via CAB they need a court order to access your accounts without a A42 or your express permission.

im not an expert though so happy to be corrected 

poppy123456

letitbe said:

poppy123456 said:

OverlyAnxious said:

letitbe said:

JaneyJo said:

Another note for people, they can see where you log into your UC account from, I assume via IP addresses.
this morning she asked “why are you in London can I ask” 
I replied that I wasn’t. “Well I can see where you are from your log in information “
im nowhere near London so why on earth my IP is showing that I don’t know but I suspect this is also going to be something I have to disprove (which I can with bank transactions etc)

WHAT ???? 

They actually know when we log in ? And they know where we log in from ? This is UNBELIEVABLE 

Yes, this is not new information.  They use it to determine whether a claimant is in the UK or not.  For this reason, it's best to never use a VPN to access the UC journal.

Yes, there’s been a couple of members here that were accused of being out of the country when they weren’t. They were asked to send a picture of their self outside their house holding their passport. 

I thought you were allowed to be out of the Country for 3 months ? 

Not for UC it isn’t. For UC it’s no more than 1 month. Any longer than this and entitlement to UC will end. Can be up to 6 months if going for medical treatment. 

For PIP it’s 13 weeks. It can be up to 26 weeks if going for medical treatment. 

The day you leave the country and come home are not included. 

Full details here https://www.gov.uk/claim-benefits-abroad/universal-credit