Gambling

7501x

I’m confused in relation to how gambling impacts benefits. I’m on UC and in LCWRA group. Because of my physical and mental disabilities I don’t go out much, if at all. So any bits of money I have and gifts of money from family I use on gambling. Winnings can be used on day to day expenses, food etc. Or I might buy things we need for the house or clothes. Nothing really out of the ordinary stuff you would spend your money on if you had earned it.

I understand it doesn’t matter what you spend your UC on, but that any winnings are treated as capital. Is this right?

As for capital, how do you know whether to consider you have had more than £6K at any one point? For example I might have withdrawn more than £6,000 in winnings, but actually at a loss because I had deposited £6,500. Would this be taken into account? (Figures just used for ease).

I guess I’m essentially confused as to whether DWP would say right ok you’ve withdrawn £10,000 (again figure used purely as an example) from gambling in total during that assessment period so we are now going to use that to deduct money (£4,000/250 = 16…16 x £4.35 = deduction of £69.60 per month). Or whether they would take into account withdrawals vs deposits in which case for any given month I have been at a loss and that’s confirmed by my gambling site statements.

TIA

66Mustang

Sorry to be judgemental but this all sounds a bit murky to me if I'm honest

Will say a few things I know in case it helps

If the money is accessible to you then I think it's capital - even if it's in a gambling account and not a bank account

I don't think profit or loss matters, just the amount you have at a point in time

If you deposited £6,500 and made a loss it would probably be seen as depriving yourself of capital, regardless of whether your capital was now under £6,000

7501x

Sorry but what do you mean murky?

I’ve seen other posts on here of similar nature and people have responded to them and helped them fine.

Im just trying to understand how things work if you do win money to make sure I’m doing the right thing! Feel a bit disheartened to be honest that I’ve then been told this seems untoward.

i guess my main confusion is that if you withdraw £6K on gambling in one assessment period but you’ve deposited £6,300, all you’ve essentially done is spend £300 of your own money?/recycled your winnings or would that then be considered capital because you’ve won £6K in one assessment period?

god I wish I was that lucky lol! I only ask because I read someone else’s post when reading up on all the new proposed changes and it got me thinking because I do gamble. Never have I won over £6K in one assessment period.

would I be right in thinking if you won £2K per month, but spent it on reasonable outgoings (not deprivation of capital) that the £2K per month wouldn’t accumulate and be added together so by month 3 you’d be considered as having reached the £6K threshold?

again I really am using random figures here. I’ve been lucky on gambling, but never have I won amounts nearing £6K and any winnings I have had have gone on general living expenses. I’m just trying to understand so that if ever I was very lucky, I would do the right thing and report it.

7501x

I’m sorry if my post has caused confusion. I was just trying to use large figures that were close to or exceeding capital amounts to make it easier to understand/answer.

Having thought about what I’m actually trying to ask, I’m confused about accumulative winnings. For example:

If you were to win say £2.5K per month in January, February and March assessment periods, would you then be considered exceeding the £6K limit, unless you had spent it on reasonable outgoings that aren’t considered deprivation of capital in which case these figures obviously come down and your capital is considered less? The above is again an example just so I then know how to work things out moving forwards. 

I’m also unsure about how it would be viewed if you had no capital and spent your income needed for other things on gambling. For example;

You received £2,500 in benefits in one month, spent the full amount on gambling and won £6,500, would you then be treated as having £6,500 in capital even though the original £2,500 was income?

I’m so sorry if my questions have been confusing. I have severe anxiety and I’ve totally trapped myself in an anxiety attack worrying that if I ever win money I’m doing something wrong. I appreciate your honesty but my over explaining is purely because I get so anxious about doing the right thing all the time and want to know every possible situation and potential outcome so if ever I were to find myself in that position I could make sure I did the right thing.

Winning £6,500 in one assessment period would be amazing lol

poppy123456

For UC what counts is what capital you have on the last day of each assessment period. Capital of less than £6,000 is ignored anyway. Therefore providing you haven’t gone over £6,000 at anyone time then you should be fine. 

7501x

Thanks for the kind reply Poppy - so UC wouldn’t add up what you’ve won over multiple months?

poppy123456

No not at all, as long as your capital remained below £6,000 then you will be fine. 

7501x

Oh amazing thanks so much. 

I just worried they would add up even small winnings over months and then say I haven’t spent them on X Y or Z and therefore I’ve deprived myself of capital. 

But I guess if they don’t add winnings up over different assessment periods and it’s only a concern if you win over £6,000 in an assessment period then what I spend it on doesn’t matter (unless I’ve won over £6,000 in one assessment period in which case I’d need to evidence I’d spent the money on things not considered deprivation of capital). 

Hope I’ve understood this right and if then I’m just overthinking things…which is my speciality!

Poppy if you don’t mind me asking was it a member of Scope or someone that works for them that said this sounded murky? Again anxiety rears its ugly head…I don’t want to get into trouble just for asking questions to ensure I’m doing the right thing 

poppy123456

It would be the same for anyone, even if someone doesn't gamble. My capital fluctuates over a period of time and then I may spend some on something I've been saving for. Then a few months later my capital may then increase more. It would be rather odd if they counted both of those levels of a capital together, when you've already spent the first lot. 

66mustang is a member of scope just like me and you. They do not work for them. The scope team will have the word "scope" in their name so you'll know who they are. 

7501x

Thanks ever so much Poppy. Take care and have a good rest of your day 

THE_DUDE

@7501x gambling can be very addictive as you may well know. If sports personalities can gamble hundreds of thousands of pounds when they have millions in the bank already, then it just shows how addictive it is.

Don't feel disheartened. This is a place to come for help. Never feel you're not welcome to ask a question. 

This thread can help people.

7501x

THE_DUDE said:

@7501x gambling can be very addictive as you may well know. If sports personalities can gamble hundreds of thousands of pounds when they have millions in the bank already, then it just shows how addictive it is.

Don't feel disheartened. This is a place to come for help. Never feel you're not welcome to ask a question. 

This thread can help people.

Thanks ever so much. Have a lovely day and take care

poppy123456

You're very welcome. I'm enjoying this sunshine we have today and hope it lasts. Hope you have a good day too.