Housing benefit query

idean

Hello,

I have a query that I don't have a complete answer for from researching. Currently in a 3 bedroom house and receive the 2 bed rate for my rent (which actually matches the rent). 

This is because I am severely disabled and need overnight care. 

If someone was to move in with me and occupy one of the 3 rooms (a distant relative - non-dependant and not providing my care) - what would I be entitled to?

I know that I am entitled the 1 bed rate regardless due to severe disability premium and being over 35 but would I get the 2 bed rate still since I still need overnight care and there is the use of a bedroom for it?

The other person wouldn't be joining in to tenancy agreement. But if they work, are they expected to contribute towards the rent in the eyes of the council? would I still receive my 2 bed rate?
And if the 2 bed rate is as much as the rent but the other person is expected to pay then how much would I receive?

I understand council tax is different however and they would be expected to pay for that?

Many thanks in advance,

idean

Apologies I should actually confirm whether they would count as a non-dependant? They are the daughter of my niece. 

poppy123456

The severe disability premium has nothing to do with your bedroom entitlement. If you’re privately renting then you would be entitled to the 1 bedroom rate anyway because you’re 35 and over. 

What other benefits are you claiming exactly? 

idean

Hello, thank you for your reply.

I get ESA including the severe disability premium and PIP (higher on both components).

I currently get the 2 bedroom rate as it is but unsure how this would change if someone was to move in but be a non-carer not on tenancy agreement.

poppy123456

Your housing benefit wouldn't change. You would lose the SDP in your ESA unless the person is either registered blind or claims a qualifying disability benefit their self, such as PIP/ADP daily living, DLA mid/high rate care or AA. 

idean

Thank you for that information. What if instead they went on tenancy as a shared tenant, would I still get my SDP? And how would the rent work then - is it shared or 2/3rd me 1/3rd them for a 3 bed hosue if I need a room for a carer?

idean

sorry I meant how would housing benefit work (not rent) for me.

poppy123456

I'm afraid that's not going to work because the joint tenancy agreement would have needed to be in place when you moved in. As you lived alone previously then you can't change something to remain entitled to a benefit such as SDP. 

idean

Ah okay so even a new tenancy agreement wouldn't change this?

So the best case scenario would be that I lose my SDP entitlement but I would still be entitled to my 2 bed housing rate which effectively pays my rent in full. The moving in of a working great niece, regardless of income, would not affect my housing benefit and the council wouldn't also expect them to pay towards the rent? However I assume they would be liable for council tax but I'd still receive support for my 50%.

Will my ESA be affected in any other way? When my great niece moves out , I assume I would be able to get my SDP back again.

What about a different scenario where I moved out to a new property with said person? What can I do then? Can I get a shared tenancy agreement but still get my SDP and be entitled to a 2 bed rate due to a need for a carer? Say if the HB rate for 2 bed was £700 but rent was £1200.  I assume a shared means I am liable for £600 but my 2 bed rate would be paid for this and the other person paying the other £600? OR would I get 2/3rd rent since i need 2 rooms out of the 3 room?

Thank you.

poppy123456

You would not be entitled to SDP where you currently live even if you had a new tenancy agreement. 

For council tax reduction where you current live because you are named on the tenancy agreement then it’s your liability to pay this and not hers. You would lose the single person discount. I can’t give any further advice with CTR because all LAs have their own rules. 

For your housing benefit where you live now there will be no non dependent deductions because you’re claiming daily living PIP. 

If you moved house and she lived with you if you each have your own tenancy agreement then you would be entitled to it. However, this would only apply if you moved to the same local authority. 

If you moved to a different local authority then you would need to claim Universal Credit for help with any rent and SDP doesn’t exist with this. Although moving housing and finding a landlord that will accept someone claiming benefits could be very challenging. 

idean

Hello, thank you for the information.

I think that clears most things up. 

I did a bit of reading and although I will lose SDP - I think I will still get enhanced disability allowance won't I?

In which case by my grand-niece moving in and me being the only person on the tenancy - the following would happen:
I lose SDP but I'll get enhanced rate still (hopefully?)
I'll get my HB support as before regardless of status of grand-niece. (Will the council ask for her income and why she isn't paying anything especially since I assume I have to do a change of circumstance notification? How do I ensure things go the way they should?)

I also checked the LA for CTR (leeds) and it says maximum rate of 100% is given to disabled people with enhanced or severe disability allowance so I assume I'll still get this. 


Moving houses locally with an amenable landlord- the best thing to do is to have separate tenancies stipulating the cost division. What if we were on a standard joint tenancies without any pre-determined split as I imagine this is just easier for the landlord. I'd get my SDP still, my share of Council Tax support but still be able to claim for 2 beds?

Sorry for more questions! I think I've nearly got it all!

poppy123456

As I advised, you will only lose the SDP, which is £81.50/week. The Enhanced disability Premium is automatically paid when in the Support Group and your ESA already includes that, so that will not be affected. 

You will still need to make sure you report the changes to your local Authority. Yes, they may ask for her earnings even though you'll have no non dependant deductions for HB. 

If you move house as you suggested then yes you will be entitled to SDP if you're still claiming ESA at that time. If you still need regular overnight care then yes you could still claim for 2 bedrooms for yourself. However, with her living with you and paying her share of the rent then you will not be able to claim for anymore than what the actual rent is. Whether you're each named on the tenancy agreement or each have your own agreement, you will each still be liable for 50% of the rent. 

idean

Thank you for the clarifications! It really helped so much!

So I've just realised something after a bit more reading. My niece receives PIP daily living component. Is this a qualifying benefit for retaining my SDP? 

On the gov.uk website it says:

You usually cannot have anyone aged 18 or over living with you, unless they’re in one of these situations:

• they get a qualifying benefit
• they’re registered blind
• they’re a boarder or subtenant (but not a close relative)
• they make separate payments to the landlord

poppy123456

It is and I did advise this earlier in the thread here 

poppy123456 said:

Your housing benefit wouldn't change. You would lose the SDP in your ESA unless the person is either registered blind or claims a qualifying disability benefit their self, such as PIP/ADP daily living, DLA mid/high rate care or AA. 

idean

Apologies I missed that. Does it mater which rate? I believe they receive the lower rate/standard. Do I still need to therefore inform ESA about this or just the LA now?

poppy123456

Any rate of daily living PIP. Yes, you should still inform ESA and your LA. 

idean

Great, thank you so much for your help! 

idean

Hello again,

I just wanted to confirm my understanding one more time sorry as I'm getting a bit anxious again! My grand-niece is having to go through a reconsideration for PIP as they've changed her rates after a review and is not receiving daily living component now (only mobility).

So this will affect what happens and the move is in a few weeks likely.

To clarify, If I stay on the current tenancy at my home and my niece moves in without the PIP component, I can still get my full HB and CT support in full (2bed allowance for a carer/whole rent essentially) regardless of their situation but I will lose my SDP. There isn't any deduction for the HB at all and I won't have any other deductions or losses?

If I face any issues for HB, what guidance can I quote to support the above?

On a side note should my niece win the appeal and gets backdated PIP does that mean I can also backdate my SDP later?

Thank you

poppy123456

If she moves in with you then you will lose the SDP. If she's eventually awarded daily living PIP then you can reclaim the SDP, providing no one claims either carers allowance or carers element of Universal Credit for looking after you.

There will be no non dependent deductions for HB for you because you're claiming daily living PIP, which I did advise previously.

Can't advise about the CTR because all LAs have their own rules. Other than losing the single person discount.

Just to confirm, even if you changed the tenancy agreement, you will still not be entitled to SDP.

https://england.shelter.org.uk/housing_advice/benefits/housing_benefit_deductions_when_living_with_non_dependants rules apply nationally.

idean

Thank you. and would it be possible to backdate my SDP if she won her appeal?

I appreciate the tenancy agreement changes wouldn't affect anything unless we went into a new property with a joint tenancy agreement where I can retain SDP and 50% of the rent.

poppy123456

I already advised that you can reclaim SDP, providing no claims carers allowance or carers element of UC for you in the meantime. It will be paid from the date it stopped.