Managed migration starting September 2024

poppy123456

@Faithlong sorry, your comment got lost because you included it in the box when you quoted my comment. 

When you migrate across to UC no you can't tell them to put you in the LCWRA group (support group) that's not how it works. For this you would need another assessment.  If you're in the work group when you move across you will be placed into the LCW group. If your ESA claim started after April 2017 then there will be no extra money for the LCW element. Although there will likely be some TP due to the SDP you're currently receiving. 

Nemisis6

I don't know who they will start with first in September work related group or support group will have to wait for update from DWP before September. They might split them into small groups as someone mentioned. The whole thing is very stressful  I really hope they will re think this before they go a head. Labour has been quiet about their plans for reforming the WCA system but this government needs booting out. 

Meg24

poppy123456 said:

Meg24 said:

Cat1986 said:

I read a comment here and it has me concerned, people that have a enhanced disability premium don't get transitional protection. 
Is that right, even if migrated across. 

I am also concerned about losing free prescriptions as I get a fair amount of meds but am not entitled to exemption. 

What makes you think that you won't be entitled to this when you migrate across? Free NHS treatment still exists for those claiming UC. As you will have LCWRA if you have no earnings or net earnings of less than £935 in your last UC assessment period then you will be entitled to free NHS treatment, which includes free prescriptions. See link. https://www.nhs.uk/nhs-services/help-with-health-costs/help-with-health-costs-for-people-getting-universal-credit/

Oh phew, I was under the impression that UC claimants were not entitled. One less thing I guess. I'd rather pay for that & still have my SDP tho!

Faithlong

poppy123456 said:

@Faithlong sorry, your comment got lost because you included it in the box when you quoted my comment. 

When you migrate across to UC no you can't tell them to put you in the LCWRA group (support group) that's not how it works. For this you would need another assessment.  If you're in the work group when you move across you will be placed into the LCW group. If your ESA claim started after April 2017 then there will be no extra money for the LCW element. Although there will likely be some TP due to the SDP you're currently receiving. 

Thank you, Poppy for answering my question. My claim started before 2017 and I have had PIP since 2018. Just one more question do I request another assessment? The reason I'm asking is because I am worried that they will be harassing me and asking me to do work related activities when I physically and mentally can’t do that and I have medical evidence to back my claim. I’m really not looking forward to doing all that it sounds exhausting! 

poppy123456

Meg24 said:

poppy123456 said:

Meg24 said:

Cat1986 said:

I read a comment here and it has me concerned, people that have a enhanced disability premium don't get transitional protection. 
Is that right, even if migrated across. 

I am also concerned about losing free prescriptions as I get a fair amount of meds but am not entitled to exemption. 

What makes you think that you won't be entitled to this when you migrate across? Free NHS treatment still exists for those claiming UC. As you will have LCWRA if you have no earnings or net earnings of less than £935 in your last UC assessment period then you will be entitled to free NHS treatment, which includes free prescriptions. See link. https://www.nhs.uk/nhs-services/help-with-health-costs/help-with-health-costs-for-people-getting-universal-credit/

Oh phew, I was under the impression that UC claimants were not entitled. One less thing I guess. I'd rather pay for that & still have my SDP tho!

You're welcome. Same here because my ESA also includes the SDP. For me it's even worse because I also claim carers allowance for looking after my daughter so there's a lot more to eventually lose out on. 

The TP eroding is not a new thing and it was the same when people moved from Incapacity benefit to ESA but I never claimed IB. 

poppy123456

@Faithlong I can't tell you whether that's what you should do because I don't know anything about your health conditions and how they affect you. Being awarded PIP doesn't automatically place you into the Support Group/LCWRA either. 

What I will say is that if you wait until you move to UC for this and then you're found to have LCWRA then when other elements increase or you become entitled to other elements, your TP erodes so you may not be any better off financially by doing that. 

If anything, you maybe better off thinking of reporting changes before you move across. However, please get some expert advice before doing anything else because if you don't qualify for Support Group there's no point reporting changes. You can see the descriptors here for Support Group/LCWRA. https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/employment-and-support-allowance/esa-glossary/support-group-descriptors

Cat1986

Oh I am sorry for you both, it sounds like if you have sdp instead of edp that you are going to be worse off.
Is that right? Or am I yet again getting confused. 

poppy123456

Cat1986 said:

Oh I am sorry for you both, it sounds like if you have sdp instead of edp that you are going to be worse off.
Is that right? Or am I yet again getting confused. 

No, again you're not correct. When we migrate across we won't be worse off but TP erodes over time. This means if other elements increase, the TP decreases so we will not see any increase in our UC until the TP erodes. In other words our UC will be frozen until the TP erodes completely. 

Cat1986

That is so not right, you obviously have more needs as your on the severe but are being left out and have to wait because of transitional protection, they have that a bit backwards to me. 
Surely it should though I dare say it for the lesser needed group. 

apple85

I really need to start breaking my posts into multiple posts as the main point always seems to get lost and a obscure point gets latched onto

apple85

The original point of my very long post yesterday is that this ‘sept 2024’ start date for esa/esa+hb is no more an estimate/guess from the gov

the official gov stage has clearly stated that they’ve yet to hash out the details or talk to their shareholders 

in the official managed migration rollout (which still shows the original 2028/29 plan not this provisional sept24-dec25 timetable) it states they claim to complete by September 2024 

hence the estimate

this is the most up to date rollout schedule of uc managed migration 

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9984/#:~:text=Latest%20'Move%20to%20Universal%20Credit,and%20no%20other%20legacy%20benefits).

as you will see it will back up everything I’ve been trying to say
(that we are still awaiting further details on this move from 2028/29 to 2024/25)

apple85

Those that are panicking about the schedule being speed up - technically it’s not

referring back to the most up to date gov managed migration rollout web source 

https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9984/#:~:text=Latest%20'Move%20to%20Universal%20Credit,and%20no%20other%20legacy%20benefits).

the dwp plan was always to complete the esaonly/esa+hb group within 12-18 months…..just they intended to have a 3 1/2 year pause before restarting the rollout at the same rushed pace that tax credit claimants are currently experiencing 

so technically the dwp haven’t sped up the rollout, they removed the pause

also looking at the below 

Looking at the numbers the reps have been at a breakneck speed throughout

and Poppy’s comment that you will need to put your old esa award in the uc journal (bcos it will take a while for this info to transfer over) mean that technically the dwp aren’t meeting their own migration rollout targets

apple85

The part of my long post where I talk about the esaonly/esa+hb being one large broad group and the dwp maybe wanting to break it down into smaller subgroups

Thats my own personal guesstimate, not fact

I based it on the observation that the rollout so far seems to have lots of little subgroups (it’s a know strategy to split one big job into lots of little bullet point check boxes as progress made is more visible that way)

also esa+hb will be more complex/take longer to complete then esa alone (obviously im not sure of the migration process but if you get housing benefit via lha then i imagine the dwp will need to make contact with the claimants local county council who were making housing benefit payments - or I guess they would, I don’t actually know)

and after the confusion on this thread about disability premiums I can’t imagine the dwp will find claimants with any combo of disability premiums will be straightforward 

but subgroups is only a theory - the dwp could choose to keep it as one big group

apple85

Obviously ‘disability premiums’ and ‘transitional protection’ is confusing a lot of people right now

(dictionary of terms:
there are  3 types of disability premium - disability premium (dp), severe disability premium (sdp) and enhanced disability premium (edp))


(if I’m honest I’m now a little confused myself - poppy, could you explain why ‘enhanced disability premium’ is not relevant to transitional protection right now.)

all the articles online seem focused on severe disability premium and skirt past enhanced Premium 

Is getting the severe disability premium element more straightforward than enhanced disability premium?

https://www.gov.uk/disability-premiums/eligibility

You can’t get dp if hour esa award is income related 

and I remember edp being less straightforward to get than the below


When I originally got edp it wasn’t simple as just being in the support group of ir esa

(if it was quite a few of us would on the sdp+edp combo and im not sure they are)

apple85

Everyone that moves to uc from esa via managed migration will get transactional protection 

uc migration notice is not the same as a wca assessment

- if you get esa wrag you’ll be moved sideward to uc lcw 
- if you get esa support group you’ll be moved sidewards to uc lcwra 

transactional protection basically means your benefit is frozen (and if you got disability premiums in esa you’ll get the cash equivalent on uc) - however when benefit uplift in April happens you won’t get the uplift until uc amount has caught up to you previous esa award amount

As far as I know the only way you won’t get transitional protection or it be stopped

- if you have a change of circumstances which triggers natural migration to uc rather than managed migration 

- after you completed managed migration to uc if in any future uc reassessment/wca you don’t maintain your current award (lcw claimant being reassessed again as lcw, lcwra claimant getting a repeat lcwra award, etc……

I believe if you have lcwra and if after a reassessment your award is downgraded to lcw (or no disability element) you’d lose your transitional protection

(you’d also lose tp is after reassessment you are moved from lcw to lcwra - but you’d be getting a better award so it would really matter)

below are some helpful screenshots from webpages

From https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9984/#:~:text=Latest%20'Move%20to%20Universal%20Credit,and%20no%20other%20legacy%20benefits).

https://www.turn2us.org.uk/get-support/information-for-your-situation/universal-credit-uc-transitional-protection/what-is-universal-credit-uc-transitional-protection

Snippets 

apple85

apple85 said:

I believe if you have lcwra and if after a reassessment your award is downgraded to lcw (or no disability element) you’d lose your transitional protection

Edit: it’s possible after reading the below my previous post above may not be 100% correct

Poppy, if you’re around could I get a second opinion 

was I right in my last post or do you get transitional protection even if in a future uc reassessment you go from lcwra down to a lcw/no uc disability element?

thanks 

poppy123456

@apple85 The disability premium is not paid at all when claiming ESA. It’s only paid when claiming either Income Related JSA or Income Support. 

I explained EDP and TP in another thread yesterday.

For those in the Support Group and their ESA includes EDP and not SDP, when they migrate to UC with LCWRA element it pays more than ESA Support Group. TP is only included if you’re worse off when you migrate across. I did a full calculation for another member. If a single person is 25 and over and in the Support Group without SDP, UC with the LCWRA is about £120/month more than their ESA. 

That screenshot you posted above is very confusing. Part of it refers to natural migration and the SDP Transitional protection. There was a high court ruling last year about those claimants that received the EDP and SDP because moving across to UC even with the SDP TP some were worse off. This doesn’t apply to managed migration. 

The 2nd screenshot you posted, your thoughts about losing TP if an element is removed or you lose the LCWRA element is not correct. You would only lose TP for something like a partner moving in, or potentially if you become entitled to other elements but it will depend on how much your TP is and what other element is included. Don’t forget also when other elements increase the TP decreases, such as the annual benefits increase. 

Please have some patience because I can’t always respond straight away. I’m busy this morning and can only reply when I have a spare few minutes. I also have health conditions myself which I’m struggling with in the past few months, which has meant I’ve been spending less time on the forum. 

apple85

Lastly uc managed migration rollout being move forward is the least of our problems as it was always going to happen and the dwp are what, 8 years behind their original uc rollout completion date - we’ve done will avoiding it for so long

personally I’m more worried about the policy changes that came from the wca consultation, what may come after the pip consultation 

but what fills me with most fear is that Labour most likely won’t be the disability ally we were hoping for and they could come up with things even worse than stride and sunak

(starmers 180 transformation to practically ‘far right sympathiser’ has honestly scared me & throw me for a loop) 

Faithlong

apple85 said:

Everyone that moves to uc from esa via managed migration will get transactional protection 

uc migration notice is not the same as a wca assessment

- if you get esa wrag you’ll be moved sideward to uc lcw 
- if you get esa support group you’ll be moved sidewards to uc lcwra 

transactional protection basically means your benefit is frozen (and if you got disability premiums in esa you’ll get the cash equivalent on uc) - however when benefit uplift in April happens you won’t get the uplift until uc amount has caught up to you previous esa award amount

As far as I know the only way you won’t get transitional protection or it be stopped

- if you have a change of circumstances which triggers natural migration to uc rather than managed migration 

- after you completed managed migration to uc if in any future uc reassessment/wca you don’t maintain your current award (lcw claimant being reassessed again as lcw, lcwra claimant getting a repeat lcwra award, etc……

I believe if you have lcwra and if after a reassessment your award is downgraded to lcw (or no disability element) you’d lose your transitional protection

(you’d also lose tp is after reassessment you are moved from lcw to lcwra - but you’d be getting a better award so it would really matter)

below are some helpful screenshots from webpages

From https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/research-briefings/cbp-9984/#:~:text=Latest%20'Move%20to%20Universal%20Credit,and%20no%20other%20legacy%20benefits).

https://www.turn2us.org.uk/get-support/information-for-your-situation/universal-credit-uc-transitional-protection/what-is-universal-credit-uc-transitional-protection

Snippets 

Thank you so much this is so helpful! 😊

poppy123456

@Faithlong that screenshot that apples85 posted is very misleading and some of the figures you see apply to natural migration when someone claims UC because of a change of circumstances and their ESA or other benefits include the SDP. They do not apply to managed migration.