Managed migration starting September 2024

poppy123456

apple85 said:

Poppy - I should of prehaps put in the footnotes of that last post that you would be the last person I’d aim that comment at as if anyone reads all posts beginning till end I know that you do. (And I feel terrible my moment of ‘rattiness’ hit you). And I’m never offended if you don’t reply back….in a way when you don’t I take it as a cue that there’s nothing glaringly wrong with the post

I was more commentating that some posters don’t read responses throughly as they are back asking a rehashed version of the same question only days later

the post was written from a selfish viewpoint, but I do get upset on your behalf poppy when you’ve spent the time answering someone’s questions and days later they are back with a similar question

i know you put in the time and research and I hope you see the same in me (even though we don’t always agree with each other) - being able to gather info/research is a skill not everyone has
but everyone should take the time to read throughly if someone’s taken the time to find an answer for them

i hope that came across okay poppy and much 🫶

Thank you and it came across absolutely fine. I agree that we don't always agree but there's a lot of things that you say that do make sense. Some of the things you say maybe wrong or incorrect but it's very obvious that you do research. 

Managed migration is the most complicated thing I've ever experienced. I didn't experience the managed migration from IB to ESA because I didn't claim that. 

There are people that don't read whole threads before commenting and some want more reassurance and yes, that does mean I do repeat myself quite often. I've been told many times that I have a lot of patience  although deep down it does get very frustrating. 

Cat1986

@apple85 @poppy123456

I want to apologise sincerely to you both, as it sounds to you both that I'm not taking in to context what you have both been saying to me. 

Truly I have been reading both of what you have been telling me and I do truly appreciate it.

And yes @poppy123456 I agree that I may be like a deer in the headlights.
And I can see from your advice that my family member would be better off when it comes to changing across, as you have shown me and adviced me. 
By the calculations that you did and I appreciate it that. 

I myself live with this family member and yes I am like the deer. 
I get easily anxious and stressed. 
Especially with everything I hear the government are going to do or doing. 

The reason I let said article get to me and most likely not listened fully to what you and @apple85 have said is fear, pure and simple.

The fear that they are going to yet change something else. 

I am trying to be as honest and truthful as I can be. 
And I apologies sincerely, I just find it all overwhelming. 

apple85

Managed migration is the most complicated thing I've ever experienced.

Isn’t it just!

I’ve accepted that sooner or later I’ll be dealing with uc

But with stride wanting to introduce new policies left, right and centre and the dwp rolling out uc far to quickly - I’m honestly looking out for  the burn out stories from dwp/job centre staff that deal with claimants direct (whom I do have sympathy for…..and hope they go on strike - at the end of the day they are victims of strides ignorance and bullying too)

The dwp said that they wanted to take time with the uc rollout and get it right but the hasn’t seemed to have transpired 

We haven’t got official updated rollout/completion dates for the old 2028/2029 group but I hope that when they are hashing out the details with stakeholders they realise some of society’s most vulnerable (and complex legacy) claimants are in that group and realistically 2-3 years will be needed to work through the group properly and not the rumoured one

But sunak, hunt and stride have got a real bee in their bonnets right now - it’s disgusting that they are trying to scapegoat the disabled to hide their own failings 

I think this pip consultation finally pushed the disabled community over the edge and labour (if they get in) won’t last longer than a single term if they continue with these ‘targeted attack/war of words’

apple85

Poppy, though I think I know the answer your comment on the housing element being more generous on uc than on legacy benefits 

I presume that you are referring to council house rentals

if you privately rent you come under the lha (local housing allowance) but instead of being paid direct by your local council when on housing benefit, the lha is used to calculate the uc housing element for private renters? (the dwp almost becomes the middle man in housing payments under uc?)

so in theory those claiming legacy housing benefits under the lha will get exactly the same amount under the housing element of uc?

did that make sense?

Cat1986

@poppy123456 @apple85

I just want to respond to your message and make myself totally clear so you can both see that I am doing my best to take in what you are saying and you can see what state of mind I'm coming from ect. 
I am trying to take in all the advice and help that you are giving me. 


I have to totally agree with @apple85 here and I do think you're worrying about nothing. 

I agree totally with this comment, I do tend to make a mountain out of a mole hill. I don't tend to read things in articles all correctly and focus on the main bad pints that are probably used for scare mungering. 


 I don't understand why you're concerned about that article you read if it's to do with that family member because that family member would be better off finically if they claimed UC.

The reason that I get myself so concerned is because I live with them and I feel for them with all these changes. 
But I can see form your advice and calculations that they would be better off. 

Their UC would include help with the rent too  known as housing element so they will not lose out on anything. In fact in some cases housing element can be more generous that housing benefit. 

Thank you for this information as that also has settled my mind when it comes to the rent. 
If it does happen sooner than thought. 
As has what @apple8@apple85 said about rent as well. I appreciate it. 

I do think that you're not fully understanding what I've been saying throughout the whole thread and you're stuck in that zone where so many people just assume that when you claim UC they will instantly be worse off but that's not true for everyone. 

I can see from this and from the previous messages, especially the calculation that you did that alot of people are not going to be worse off. 

And as @apple85 has said 
I’ve accepted that sooner or later I’ll be dealing with uc
That what I have to accept for my family member. 

I'm just fearing that the article that I read that I shouldn't really have read  fully or taken for word, could potentially mean yet again another change in procedures, that could end up making more change. 

I may be wrong in my thinking completely and please do tell me. 

It may be that I just have to deal with it if it is triggering family member to uc sooner. 

I hope to goodness that there will be some sort of clarification as to this message that dwp are to issue in regards to housing benefit. 
(the article may be of no importance what so ever, it does also state in that article about only those with housing benefit only being the next lot moved, hence why getting confused). 

And as @apple85 @apple85

We haven’t got official updated rollout/completion dates for the old 2028/2029 group

And I agree totally with her that they need to  as she says "realise some of society’s most vulnerable (and complex legacy) claimants are in that group and realistically 2-3 years will be needed to work through the group properly and not the rumoured one“

They are changing things way to fast and hitting at the vulnerable, it's disgusting 

We are also waiting to see what they do with pip 

Thank you for all advice and messages 

poppy123456

apple85 said:

Poppy, though I think I know the answer your comment on the housing element being more generous on uc than on legacy benefits 

I presume that you are referring to council house rentals

if you privately rent you come under the lha (local housing allowance) but instead of being paid direct by your local council when on housing benefit, the lha is used to calculate the uc housing element for private renters? (the dwp almost becomes the middle man in housing payments under uc?)

so in theory those claiming legacy housing benefits under the lha will get exactly the same amount under the housing element of uc?

did that make sense?

LHA determines how much you're entitled to when privately renting and this applies to both housing element and housing benefit. 

Off the top of my head the differences between both are there's no non dependant deductions for UC HE if the non dependent is under 21, regardless of their earnings. There's also no deductions is the non dependent is claiming either daily living PIP/ADP, DLA mid/high rate care or AA. Same if they have a child under 5 or are receiving carers allowance. If there's a deduction it's a standard rate of £91.47/month, regardless of earnings.  

For HB for adults over the age of 18 if they are working then the deductions will depend on their weekly earnings and can be anything from £19.30 to £124.55 per week. There's no deductions for a non dependent if they are under 25 and claiming either UC with no earned income, Income Related JSA/ESA, Income Support or Pension Credit. 

For HB for those living in shared accommodation they will only be entitled to the shared rate of LHA regardless of their age or whether they are claiming a qualifying disability benefit. For HE if they live in shared they are entitled to the 1 bedroom rate if 35 or over or if under this age and claiming a qualifying disability benefit. 

If you have a lodger the first £20/week is ignored and anything over that will reduce your HB and also applies to Income Related ESA/JSA and Income Support. For UC income from a lodger is completely ignored but is treated as capital. 

There's more but can't think what they are right now. All benefits are complex in their own way and it's taken me many years to get where I am now but I'm still learning. I hope I haven't confused you here. 

Just to add also that the same rules apply to both if the claimant is receiving either daily living PIP/ADP, Mid/high rate care DLA or AA and there will be no non dependent deductions. 

Cat1986

@poppy123456

Would you possibly know if on uc housing element it's the same as on esa and housing benefit, that if you get pip nothing is taken away for a non dependant? 

Thank you

poppy123456

Cat1986 said:

@poppy123456

Would you possibly know if on uc housing element it's the same as on esa and housing benefit, that if you get pip nothing is taken away for a non dependant? 

Thank you

If it's daily living PIP then yes no non dependent deductions apply for either UC or HB. 

Cat1986

@poppy123456
Thank you appreciate it. 😊

Cat1986

@poppy123456
I'm so thankful for that information as that's the way it is right now on esa, we get no deductions with it. 
I just wanted to confirm it was the same, which you have done for me. 
Thats a great relief to me. 

poppy123456

Cat1986 said:

@poppy123456
I'm so thankful for that information as that's the way it is right now on esa, we get no deductions with it. 
I just wanted to confirm it was the same, which you have done for me. 
Thats a great relief to me. 

There wouldn't be any deductions for ESA anyway because that benefit is for them or you and doesn't include help with any rent. Non dependant deductions would only apply to housing benefit or UC if it includes help with any rent. 

Cat1986

I meant to say with the housing benefit that that is the way that we get it just now and I just wanted to know if it was the same with us housing element which you have comfirmed so thank you for that. 

Cat1986

*I meant uc not us 

poppy123456

Cat1986 said:

I meant to say with the housing benefit that that is the way that we get it just now and I just wanted to know if it was the same with us housing element which you have comfirmed so thank you for that. 

You keep referring to the claims as "we" if you're claiming the ESA with a partner then the calculations for ESA and UC that I gave earlier in the thread will be different. 

Cat1986

Sorry about that, it's definetly not a we as in couple.
It's just the family member. 

poppy123456

@postapocalypticghost As you're in the Support Group then you will be entitled to the LCWRA element from the start of your claim. You will not need any fit notes.

They will be ways of verifying your identity by asking you some questions so please try not to worry about that.

As for attending your local job centre for your first appointment, you can ask for a reasonable adjustment for a telephone appointment.

Does your ESA include the Severe disability Premium? If it doesn't then are you aware that UC with LCWRA element pays more than ESA Support Group? If you're a single person then your UC entitlement will be about £120/month more than what your ESA currently is.

poppy123456

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/872511#Comment_872511

You're welcome. This confirms that your ESA doesn't include the SDP so LCWRA for UC pays more than Support Group for you. This was the reason why they were originally delaying the migration process to 2028/29 because many people would have been better off by claiming UC so would have saved them millions.

apple85

update (from the dwp monthly newsletter):

to summarise (aka what this means):

Still no official progression since sunaks announcement of the uc managed migration timetable being accelerated

Aka those who were expecting to move to uc in 2028/29 (esa only and esa + hb) that’s still the dates showing up in the dwp official rollout calendar (sept 2024 is only the ‘current planning assumption’ by the dwp - aka not official/not 100% confirmed)

what is looking increasingly likely is that a final confirmation may not take place till after the general election which Labour are expected to win (so good chance starmer &co will need to sign off on this and/or make further changes to the rollout)

apple85

https://www.disabilitynewsservice.com/dwp-quietly-starts-early-rollout-of-universal-credit-to-some-esa-claimants-without-telling-mps/

I still believe whatever party wins the general election will have final say on full rollout to uc for esa only and esa+uc claimants

This sounds like a ‘practice run’ by the dwp……….if Labour win they could pause this acceration of rollout or increase the rollout timetable to a more reasonable 2-3 years instead of rushing through in 1 (which imo is just commonsense)

Meg24

I almost wish I was in a trial area because I want to cause as many problems for them aa possible. For starters I can't go to the jobcentre or use the phone. At present there is no alternative means to have the initial interview. I'll be stuck at the first hurdle.