Bus driver wasn't going to let me on

tomato_soz

Good evening

I'm wondering if I could please get some advice. Today I was boarding a Bee Network bus at 2.30pm (Greater Manchester). Our local high school does finish at this time and there were a few kids on the bus all stood at the front, the rest of the bus was empty (about 20 seats). There were two buggies on board in the middle of both wheelchair spaces. This was one of the brand new buses where there are two designated wheelchair spaces but realistically you could fit a wheelchair and three prams in if people move out of the way. The people who had the prams wouldn't have needed to fold them down.

I knew straight away that this driver was going to be funny with me from his face. It was pouring down with rain and he couldn't be bothered getting the ramp. He shrugged and said "full." I refused to move out of the way so other passengers behind me could board and said that the bus isn't full because you're letting them on, and that by law you have to let me on. I asked if there were two wheelchair users on board and he said no but there's two prams and they won't move. The people with prams shouted "we will move!" and they made the kids move to the seats. The bus was still half empty after they sat down.

The driver reluctantly started getting the ramp after mouthing "f*** sake" and slamming it. Then as I went past him ge made a remark like "it's because you've chosen this time to get on the p*ss*ng bus. Shouldn't be allowed". I had reiterated multiple times that my child had an appointment and I couldn't wait for the next bus, while he was arguing with me, so I said that I was sorry and I don't get to choose the time of the appointment. What I should have said was that I am entitled to get on the bus at any time I choose , as long as there is an unoccupied space designated for a wheelchair.

Everyone on the bus (especially the mums with prams) was nice to me, except the people made to move who were giving me dirty looks and one called me a 'Karen'.

I've complained to the Bee Network with the driver number but I'm wondering - if it is an offense and I want to take this as far as I can, do I need to report to anyone else? He's employed by them and they will investigate it but I don't see them taking action that could result in a prosecution or fine as there is a conflict of interest there. I've seen news articles where drivers are prosecuted but does that still apply if they eventually let you on board after being humiliated and made feel like a burden in front of a load of strangers and your children? I live in a small town and right in front of my bus stop so I do have to see these people again and I feel like a right moaning cow about transport, shops, pavements…

Maybe I am a so-called 'Karen' but this happens a lot, usually only when it's raining and they drive past the stop if I'm on my own. He had stopped to let people off so couldn't do that. I've had to complain about them leaving me at the stop in the rain before. I honestly believe it's because it's raining as in fair weather there is no issue.

Thanks for any advice.

tomato_soz

It's been a while since I had looked this up. I think the Google results confused me and that under older regulations it was an offense punishable by conviction or a fine, but under more recent legislation and the equality act, the onus is on the transport provider to make reasonable adjustments. Anyway I have calmed down a bit now. I just don't think the Bee Network will do anything at all as they didn't when it was TfGM. I'm a lifelong supporter of public transport, but will never use it again after October (partner's driving test), if I can help it anyway. Not worth the stress!

Doris_Scope

Hi @tomato_soz

I'm sorry to hear that you have been treated in this way.

Disability discrimination and the law has more information on your rights.

You could also contact the helpline of Disability Rights UK for further information.

I hope that the transport company can support you and sort this issue.

Rosie_Scope

Sorry this happened to you @tomato_soz, it sounds really stressful. It shouldn't be this hard or distressing for disabled people to get about on public transport, so I understand your frustration with how the whole situation was handled.

It's totally justified to call out these accessibility barriers, I don't think that makes you a 'Karen'! It's the transport systems and society that are putting up the barriers, it's not you who is the problem. As you say, you're fully entitled to travel whenever you like. Disabled people can't just live their lives avoiding busy times for everyone else's convenience!

I'm afraid I don't have any advice to add, but I'm sorry that it happened and I'm glad that some of the people on the bus were on your side. I don't think it would make the driver liable for a fine unfortunately, but I hope they take your complaint seriously and investigate the driver's behaviour as it doesn't sound at all respectful. Hope you're coping okay afterwards, take it easy!

tomato_soz

Thank you for the replies... Bee Network (emailed me as TfGM) said that even though I was a Bee Network customer, on a Bee bus... they only plan the routes and that they will pass this on.

I think the complaints did get passed through because the drivers on the same service are stopping to let me on, moving the tip rail etc... but seem to be purposely slamming the drop down ramps to cause ear damage and acting smug about it. I've been a wheelchair user for many years now. Never had problems with the ramps causing hearing damage until the last two weeks since this complaint. I don't have this issue on any other bus service either. Just this particular one. Multiple drivers. They are letting the metal ramp fall to the ground with an earsplitting bang of metal on concrete instead of using the handle to lower it. My ears were ringing for days the first time. I mentioned to the driver and he pretended to be deaf (an unfunny joke) so I thought it was a one off. The next day I had another appointment so I go to get on the bus and this driver does the same thing. I wasn't expecting it. I had ringing in my ears and a sharp pain so I said to the driver "please dont drop it like that when i get off, that really hurt my ears". The response was "yeah well doing it properly means I'll have a bad back all the way into town and thats not happening. Dont like it - dont ask for the ramp." and did this horrible sly smile at me like "this is what you asked for" kind of thing.

I asked the people with me if I was being sensitive to the noise and they said no, the level of noise is totally unreasonable and there should be a warning sticker as their ears were hurting as well. It was an ENT appointment and they noted my eardrums are inflamed. My hearing hasnt fully come back and the last time this happened was a few days ago. My brain felt like it had been rattled. I've tried going further away but as it makes the whole bus reverberate there is no escape from the slamming. Other passengers pulled faces when they did it as if to gesture that there is no need for that.

Again, I emailed the Bee Network to say that I the ramps are being misused and that the health of the driver's back is important but not more so than a passenger's hearing. The reason I think it's being done on purpose is because it's only these specific routes and drivers that will have been told to stop refusing access. Out of 12 buses, 8 slammed the ramp and they were all the same buses that frequently don't let me on. The rest are a different company (still Bee branded) and the drivers are nice and lower the ramps properly.

I feel like I just have to keep complaining or put in a personal injury claim until they just do their job. I'm not wearing ear defenders to use a ramp but if my hearing doesn't come back I will sue them.

Kimmy87

Have you tried complaining via your local authority transport department. They will be the ones commissioning Bee network to operate those routes.

You could also try your local councillor.

https://hsm.manchester.gov.uk/kb5/manchester/directory/service.page

Sandy_123

Do the local council subside these bus routes might be worth going down that avenue your local MP is a good idea

Jean Eveleigh

You could also contact Transport for All ( https://www.transportforall.org.uk/ ) for advice and help if you do wish to take this further.

rubin16

I think your complaining to the wrong network. The bee network oversee's routes and timetables whereas you need to start complaining to the actual bus company i.e Arriva or Stagecoach who run the services. They control the bus drivers and bus's and can take action.

I'm sorry this has been happening to you, you get some awful miserable bus drivers sometimes and some really nice ones. but they should never make you feel bad just for wanting to do regular things and simply get to your destination.

tomato_soz

T

tomato_soz

Thank you all - the problem I have is that all the buses where I live all look the same now. They are all yellow and just say Bee Network. There's nothing on the tickets,uniforms, vehicles to indicate which bus company is running that service until I contact Bee Network with the vehicle and journey details and they reply telling me which company it us. The contracts are even split between routes. In these instances it's mostly Go North West/Vanymede. I have to continue to use the bus for work, hospital... everything really... until at least October. So I've decided to just keep a log of when this is happening rather than persistently contact them.

I think it's just the audacity that's getting to me 😄 I used to get 6 buses per day, to work and back, ans never had this issue. I've noticed society is a lot less tolerant now.

Honestly I do not think my council or councillors will care or respond. My MP maybe but I don't know if it's that serious yet. I'm going to wait for vanymede to get back to me over what is essentially an injury when boarding their buses. It's the sort of thing that should be resolved without intervention, by me politely asking the driver not to do it - but they seem to want to defeat me.

rubin16

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/888012#Comment_888012

Yeah I'm from around the manchester area too so understand the confusion with the bus's now. However I would persue this. It shouldn't be happening to you and you have the same right as everyone else who needs to get the bus. I know its hard but maybe trying to make video evidence too when you catch the bus, you could secretley film them for evidence as well as keeping your log. It would be harder to ignore if you have hard evidence such as a video of them doing it and you could persue a case against the company if not listened too. All the best.

tomato_soz

That's a good idea @rubin16 - I'll just hold my phone so it's filming my feet/not obvious that I'm filming, but it will record how they're lowering the ramp. I have to get a bus in ten mins and I'm a bit worried because it really does hurt my ears for days afterwards. My husband said to wear ear plugs because getting the point across isn't worth hearing damage, but that's ridiculous imo.

Jimm_Alumni

Please do keep us updated. People think this is something so simple, and it kind of is right? Most people assume they can get any bus without being insulted or feeling like they've done something wrong. So the fact this company is making something so simple a difficult task for disabled people is something that should really be fixed!

The drivers should maybe try getting around as a wheelchair user for a week and see what it's like?

JessieJ

Sorry you've had problems, @tomato_soz, it is very annoying

I had a problem with a bus driver, two other people were waiting for the bus, as well as me in a powerchair. He indicated to pull in, then changed his mind & carried on going. We were all rather gobsmacked & angry. When I got home, I called the company & had a long talk with a smashing lady. I gave her the time, bus stop & what happened. She said that all their buses have cameras with sound, one being on the driver & it would be looked into & he would be dealt with. She added that if ever there were any problems to call & report, they need to know & do look into all & act if necessary.

Your buses will probably have the same, the cameras are even on the outside of the bus. Give them all the details & they have the ability to see & hear their actions.

BTW, your buses are better than ours, as they actually can carry two wheelchairs, plus pushchairs. Not here, just the frustrating one still. My max for waiting for the next with the free space is 5, thankfully it wasn't raining that day.

tomato_soz

@Jimm_Scope I will do :)

@JessieJ have you had any problems since? Good point - I think the buses do have cameras and audio.

An update: The response from Go North West this morning "If you wish to further your complaint, you will need to do so through the Bee network as we cannot take the complaint directly from yourself , in line with TFGM guidelines." They're just passing me around in circles. I've forwarded that to Bee Network and reopened the case on that basis.

Meanwhile when I get on the bus, they still let the ramp fall from about halfway down, which isn't as loud but still causes ringing of the ears. But now are taking the mick out of me. So when I went to get off the bus last week, the driver stopped me before I used the ramp by putting his hand out in front of my face like a lollipop lady stopping traffic. He asked me 3/4 times "is that alright for you ma'am, are you sure? Can I do anything else for you?" It was over the top and unneccesary, but happened 3 times on the same service - I need the ramp twice for each journey, which I know is an obvious thing but if I only go to one place I need the ramp at least 4 times.

The drivers are just digging a bigger hole as far as I'm concerned. I think like all bullies they think they're being clever by pretending to be nice with an evil grin on their face, but I'm pretty sure that they haven't been told to stop me from using the ramp until I confirm I'm happy with the way they put it down. What else could I say other than yes? "No, put it back up and do it again properly".

JessieJ

I'm sorry you're being given the runaround, @tomato_soz, glad that you are going to continue with it. Not so good either that you have some sarcy drivers.

Thankfully, I've had no driver problems since, in fact, most are lovely. Just the norm of place taken or the bus just doesn't turn up. Sadly, it's a particular one that goes to the hospital. Do occasionally get the dropped ramp & one driver had a bad back, so I felt for him. We don't have many with the auto ramp, they are what's needed on all buses I think.

Good luck with your complaint going forward.

tomato_soz

Thank you - I just had a detailed from TfGM/Bee Network explaining that I have to complain to the operator.

So I guess this is one for my MP after all. I feel this is an utterly pathetic attitude by the transport provider if I'm honest. No wonder MPs are so busy. This could easily be sorted by them giving me a timescale, complaints handling policy and advising what action they have taken to make sure the ramps are being used properly.

I wish I could just let things go 😄 But it's every time I use the bus and it's so loud my ears are hurting constantly now. My husband's ears are still ringing from a few days ago. We have both been concert-goers in our younger years and never had anything like this. The metal on concrete reverberating through the bus is a loud ear-splitting cracking noise and it's not on.

I've never seen the auto ramps, I wish we had those here. They've replaced ramps that were lowered with a retractable wire with ones that only have a D ring. One driver said its impossible to lower them without trapping your fingers underneath so most drivers won't put them down properly. I don't want the drivers to hurt themselves but I don't want to be deafened from using the bus! Thankfully have had no more issues with them not letting me on so that's one thing sorted 😆

JessieJ

That is crazy! Best to contact the operator then & see what they have to say, no joy & it will be your MP. To have to take it that far is ridiculous though.

The auto ramps are quite good, when they work properly. 😆 They are in the middle of the bus, so it makes it easier to get on & off. Shame there are so few of them & they seem to be on older buses not the new. They do beep though, as they come out & retract. All other buses have the D rings which aren't really good enough. The new buses have loads of space but have the D rings too. Seems nobody can come up with a better idea.

lollypop12

I feel like there's more to this story. I don't believe you would be treated this way just for being in a wheelchair. I am a bus driver, by and large we are a good bunch and are very very used to accommodating wheelchair users. We're only hearing one side of the story.

ricky1040

@lollypop12 I think your being a little bit dismissive here. I also worked in the transport industry before I was unable. Lots of drivers are great but I will say that it's a rough job and drivers get a lot of abuse. Which is wrong. But over time some can become effected by this and treat passengers poorly without any real reason. Which is also wrong.

If the driver could safely accommodate the passenger they should never refuse them. But that's the question here. Was it safe for them to do so. Either way being rude to the passenger or the passenger to the driver isn't fair at all.

The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.