LCWRAG - Ability for some paid work without negatively impacting benefits.

chris1717

Hello,

I am trying to understand or confirm if it is possible to be in the LCWRAG on UC and retain the UC amount plus the additional LCWRAG amount.

I presently receive both plus a small additional amount for housing costs related to maintenance/ service charges.

I don’t receive any separate amounts as housing payments being either rent or mortgage interest.

I don’t have any dependents or responsible for any child.

Therefore can I possibly be in receipt of a small monthly paid income without cancelling out LCWRAG additional amount.

I am exploring sort of testing myself with multiple health issues physical and wellbeing to stay as active and involved as I can comfortably.

Therefore, I sort of first need to understand the financial implications.

I have been doing a few hours of physical volunteering each week, and would like to have the ability to sort of do a bit more and increase my monthly income slightly as a first step while health issues continue to be explored.

I don’t presently receive PIP, I commenced a claim a while back and lots of connected confusions to get this application process off the ground.

For now this discussions is meant to focus on what I presently receive and the impact if I secured limited hours of paid work on a regular basis each month so not gig economy or odd job etc but a sort of small paid role.

Any help will be much appreciated.

Rosie_Scope

Hi @chris1717, welcome to the community. While you're in the LCWRA group, you'll have a work allowance of £404 if you receive help with housing costs, or £673 if you don't. So that would be the amount you could earn per month without having your Universal Credit adjusted in any way. For every £1 you earned over the work allowance, your UC would be reduced by 55p.

One thing to bear in mind is whether your work would go against the reasons that you're claiming LCWRA, as that can affect things, but it is possible to work and receive LCWRA at the same time.

We've got lots of very helpful members so I'm sure they'll be along soon to offer their advice and experiences 😊

poppy123456

As your UC includes help with housing costs then your work allowance will be the lower amount of £404/month as correctly advised by Rosie.

kc1978

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/120863/lcwrag-ability-for-some-paid-work-without-negatively-impacting-benefits

Im in The LCWRA group, my coach stated, when it's reviewed or should things improve, they would likely then put you in the lower group, and start to prepare you, especially if uncertainties. So organise possible tasters, get you on courses.

However if you try on the Higher LwCRA be careful it could allow them to stop the element and then put normal work activity , courses, job seeking on you.

I understand you won't know till you try, so make sure your ready, and discuss with a work coach what options or support they can give you.

After all that's what they are for.

Id do it, as a can I ask questions about, if things were to improve? How would I be supported? If it went bad and I couldn't cope, or it makes health worse what happens ? Etc.

While waiting for my decision my coach was actually really great, and gave good advice and pointed me to some really helpful information.

I hope they do support and you are lucky and find a way back.

I hope at some point to be same.

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/120863/lcwrag-ability-for-some-paid-work-without-negatively-impacting-benefits

Im in The LCWRA group, my coach stated, when it's reviewed or should things improve, they would likely then put you in the lower group, and start to prepare you, especially if uncertainties. So organise possible tasters, get you on courses.

However if you try on the Higher LwCRA be careful it could allow them to stop the element and then put normal work activity , courses, job seeking on you.

I understand you won't know till you try, so make sure your ready, and discuss with a work coach what options or support they can give you.

After all that's what they are for.

Id do it, as a can I ask questions about, if things were to improve? How would I be supported? If it went bad and I couldn't cope, or it makes health worse what happens ? Etc.

While waiting for my decision my coach was actually really great, and gave good advice and pointed me to some really helpful information.

I hope they do support and you are lucky and find a way back.

I hope at some point to be same.

chris1717

chris1717

Experiencing Technical Issues Here- Not letting me post comment to respond?

chris1717

was that a previous short term glitch?

chris1717

Hello Poppy and Rosie, 

Having technical issues here as it is not letting me post responses? Trying again here.

Thank you both for your replies. 

Receiving the above replies has sort of identified what I think is therefore a UC fiddle forced on me to pay me less to prevent the £673 being previously received.

Let me explain. I obtained LCWRAG as of late August 2023 and it was backdated etc. My claim commencement date is presently 10th Jan 2023. 

On receipt of LCWRAG they commenced UC Claim Review …long story short they did not review for underpayment and instead just overpayment and no overpayment established etc.

what did follow after that UC Claim Review of 8 months approx was the UC team asking very vaguely about service charges etc. I only have a small ground rent to pay each year and then building insurance plus have to ensure safety for my Gas appliances etc. As a result they arrived at my monthly costs here being just over £50 a month which they communicate as housing costs.

I do not claim for mortgage interest as I accessed small insignificant pension pot for lump sums in 2022 to 2023 tax years to utilise personal tax allowance to then pay off and reduce priority debts related to mortgage and long standing home improvement loan etc. 

Therefore since August 2023 being the next benefit payment date I received the extra LCWRAG amount of approx £400 etc but it seems they should have been paying me the higher rate you reference being £673 a month. 

Therefore it seems that the UC Claim Review did identify underpayment but withheld this I from me to force low level receipt of my minimal service charges which are not service charges as paid to another and instead my responsibility under my lease to pay for buildings insurance of my flat etc plus ground rent etc and nominal safety connected needs.

Am I understanding this correctly and therefore if they should have paid me £673 once confirmed as LCWRAG in August 2023 and now having accepted this nominal additional approx 50 classed as housing costs am I able to address? 

I know this is now sort of off topic and I will separately respond to the LCWRAG financial understanding here later. 

Any help here much appreciated.

kc1978

Im in The LCWRA group, my coach stated, when it's reviewed or should things improve, they would likely then put you in the lower group, and start to prepare you, especially if uncertainties. So organise possible tasters, get you on courses.

However if you try on the Higher LwCRA be careful it could allow them to stop the element and then put normal work activity , courses, job seeking on you.

I understand you won't know till you try, so make sure your ready, and discuss with a work coach what options or support they can give you.

After all that's what they are for.

Id do it, as a can I ask questions about, if things were to improve? How would I be supported? If it went bad and I couldn't cope, or it makes health worse what happens ? Etc.

While waiting for my decision my coach was actually really great, and gave good advice and pointed me to some really helpful information.

I hope they do support and you are lucky and find a way back.

I hope at some point to be same.

chris1717

Hello, KC1978,

Firstly, I’ve experienced technical issues here with the ability to reply as the posting of a reply comment was not working.

Thank you for your shared experience views here. I understand and will consider what you have shared further and may come back to clarify to ensure I understand.

For now though could you explain how I would know if I am in the higher or lower etc.

Until today I thought the max payment was just the present I receive which is £400 ish.

I have just pulled out my Health Assessment report which was really difficult to obtain and this on the last page states the following

Under the Title of LCW and LCWRA Information it states

The client was found to meet the criteria for Limited Capability for Work and Work Related Activity. Then it goes into detail about a summary of issues etc.

Can you tell by this if I should have received more than the approx £400 a month and instead what others have referenced being £673 a month? Then the sep UC amount etc.

Any help here much appreciated.

C

Rachel_Scope

Hi @chris1717.

Sorry about your posts not showing up straightaway. Our spambot can be a bit keen sometimes and your posts were flagged by it. They're out now. If it happens again it will most likely just be in our spam filter and it may take a little time for us to get to it 😊

chris1717

Hello Rachel, Thanks for explaining. I think therefore if after submitting via Post Comment it does not process I should just leave? Or how do I know my response will be caught in the spam filter unless I flag again by submitting a further newbie Hello post etc.

kc1978

Hi the difference is LCWRA (I call higher rate) Those put in the Limited capability for work and work-related activity group (LCWRA) are not expected to be able to work soon. They get extra money to support their higher needs, and they don’t need to do ‘work-related activity’ to continue receiving the benefit.

It will say on your award letter.

LCW (lower rate) are expected by the DWP to be capable of work at some point in the future and have to take part in work-related activity (meet regularly with an adviser at the Jobcentre, go to occasional training courses, and do various tasks that the DWP say will make you better able to get a job later). If they don't do the work-related activity they will stop receiving the benefit.

Hope that explains

Rachel_Scope

Hi @chris1717. You can just leave it once you've posted and we'll set it free from the spambot. No need to make a new post, we check it regularly but sometimes there's a lot to go through.

chris1717

Dear KC1978, Rosie and Poppy,

It therefore looks like I’ve been deliberately cheated out of the £673 since early 2023 and in late 2024 and after a 8 month UC Claim Review they withheld information that they had been underpaying me for the LCWRAG due to the fact I received nothing as housing payments etc being mortgage interest or monthly rental housing benefit etc.

It therefore seems that in late April / May 2024 they took steps to tick a box that I was then forced to pursue and receive a nominal£50 per month additional amount which could then tick a box that at this late date I was in receipt of a housing cost to cancel out paying me the 673 a month being approx 273 more a month and therefore related to eligibility I think of May 2023 that is 7 months of 2023 and 8 in 2024 being 15 at present 15 x273 = £4,095. Roughly calculating the difference at present is that they have deprived me of £3,345 in back payments.

Is this making sense to anyone and am I entitled to the small connected lease costs as a sep UC Housing Cost as it seems unfair that I don’t receive more than my present UC monthly amount then the 400 ish for LCWRAG and approx 50 for flat lease payment responsibilities etc being a monthly amount of £850.

Any help here much appreciated to include confirmation that it seems I have been deliberately cheated financially here by the inept and unfairyconducted UC Claim review of 8 months which did not review fir underpayment as I was informed etc and instead only overpayment which none was found etc after 8 months of delays.

Any help here appreciated.

Rosie_Scope

Hello @chris1717, sorry if I've misunderstood what you mean.

When we talk about the work allowance, this isn't extra money, it's an amount that isn't counted when they're making deductions from your payment based on how much you're earning.

So for example, if your UC work allowance was £404 and you earned £700 from your job one month, your UC work allowance would mean that £404 of what you earned doesn't count before they start reducing your UC. Your Universal Credit would be reduced by 55p for every £1 you earned above £404. This is known as the 'earnings taper'.

In the example, that would mean that the £296 you earned over the work allowance counts towards this taper and you'd have £162.80 deducted from your UC that month (if my maths is correct!!)

I hope that makes sense, it can be a bit difficult to get your head around.

If you earned less than £404 in a month, you'd have no deductions from your Universal Credit at all. That would be the same if you were entitled to the £673 work allowance, you'd be able to earn that much before the tapering applied.

I will have to do some research to confirm, but I believe that any amount of housing costs being paid to you means you would only be entitled to the £404 work allowance - bear with me on that one as I will have to read up on it to make sure!

The LCWRA payment is a separate thing and is an extra payment on top of your standard UC.

chris1717

Hello Rosie,

Thank you for clarifying and making sense here. I was already starting to realise that the 693 amount was not a paid amount and instead an amount you could earn with LCWRAG award etc of the amount just over 400 per a month o top of the monthly single adult UC amount.

I suppose the question is now is as a result of just a nominal housing cost of 50 per month am I excluded from thus higher earning bracket of 693 which is where you shared you need to come back etc.

Therefore, my prior posting thinking I had been cheated and was in receipt of just over 400 additional related to LCWRAG was not correct as this would still be paid and I would possibly experience the taper after paid work income received over approx 400 per month with the question if this may be the higher amount of 673 per month.

It seems that these are important factors for me to first identify as approx £400 paid income allowance received a month at London Living Wage of £13.11 is approx 7.5 hours a week plus travel costs. I will potentially struggle with a full day as I need to pace my activity output to prevent a fatigue boom bust scenario.

At the £673 paid income allowance this is approx 12 hours a week with a more practical possible two half days worked but with increased travel costs.

Anyway, I now understand more even if it is not entirely clear to me just yet. Then in addition, I am mindful that working two half days may trigger withdrawal of LCWRAG and my present benefit received amount of just over £850 a month plus other positives such as healthcare prescriptions, dental, etc and connected reduced utilities reduced rate for Water, hopefully soon Broadband Essentials and then council tax etc.

It is a lot to try and juggle to understand therefore I suspect trying to test abilities via Volunteering for a suitable opportunity may be a way to test my abilities but with no increase in monthly funds etc.

I will await your update about the grey area here related to housing costs of the nominal £50 therefore potentially excluding from the higher income bracket of £673 a month additional income etc .

Thank you for your help here with my learning curve.

C

kc1978

To be honest it is so confusing.

That the rent element , what they pay or don't. Like I get it's supposed be easier but. Waiting three months for the LWCRA left me in debt. That was unfair.

1st time on this type benefit.

I got 363.00 basic for 3 months

Following my WCA I got the LWCRA element. ( My mortgage would just be covered. My interest is ridiculous). And it's not a posh luxury house. Ex council. 100 year old.

I get no smi as they pay 2.65% as a loan. My mortgage interest is currently 8.75%. id still be in debt.

Selling my remaining mortgage balance to family so not to lose our family home, but I will be able to live rent free for at least 10 years or while I can cope. I have no choice so a house I have already paid £163,000 for I'm losing.

No chance I'll never remortgage and am stuck as an ex NRAM customer.

So what was my main retirement investment I lose. I was going to sell, down size , live in a lodge park if needed. All those plans gone!

But the government made £3.4 billion profit selling NRAM and they did not sell for a true value of the mortgages they held to unregulated companies. Who have charged well above others. Who aren't wanting help, they are making a fortune.

Oh suprise government screwed over the public, anyone surprised.

Guess they had to cover up the over £30 billion spent on wasted projects over COVID. Contracts that delivered nothing, we unusable, wasted, lost, or not seen through. Oh but it's disabled people they say who are costing this country!

Oh I'm on a rant. Going stop with!

I am waiting see if the Lloyds case ruling is positive, if it is, I already signed ready a group action law suit.

I was ahead of my contract and asked for some that money back to pay legal fee for house sale. Cheeky arses said they may but had to do affordability test.

I was like but contractually I'm ahead, so give it back. I'm not in breach and won't be cause house will be sold well before I need to make a new payment. Refused.

Found out the UK government guy who dealt with the mortgage when they took over, when left went work for the mother company who brought my mortgage. While on government his salary was £285,000 a year. The sales were a farce, and the government took the money and ran. He got a even better paid job and ran!

Anyway that's another sore point lol 😂

chris1717

Hello KC1978,

You are correct that the system is so confusing, and the reality is that you need a qualification to correctly navigate / understand.

Thank fully, we have community forums such as this which has been a great help to me so far.

It does strike me that the present system I am experiencing penalises anyone with a mortgage.

I am uncertain if this sort of penalty regime being the present benefit system is a direct result of the former government and if changes for the better may be on the horizon with our new government. I hope so.

I know first hand that mortgage providers even if they did not become government owned are notoriously unhelpful despite the steps that should have been in place. I think I just missed out on the most recent steps introduced to offer more protections for people struggling to pay their mortgage etc. due to rapid interest rate hikes.

I also understand the trapped in issue such as powerless to move on and obtain a new mortgage provider and instead trapped in and forced to pay a lenders standard high variable SVR at a higher rate etc.

I feel for you and it seems that you have obtained as much control as possible by involving family, remaining in your home is a big positive in multiple ways as having to deal with a home change as well as health issues would be a lot to handle.

Much like yourself stuff is not easy for me and a sort of up and down. I try to make the most of the good stuff and try as best I can to tackle the not so good in manageable tasks or bits.

I am mindful of trying to find small steps to achieve positive change while I continue to come to terms with recent health related identifications and whilst some needs remain ongoing investigations or assessments etc.

Therefore this present understanding of how this confused system works to support small trial steps etc is important for me to grasp to try and limit connected issues arising which then become too difficult to resolve, such as loosing present limited benefit entitlements.

Related to understand LCWRAG and ability to receive paid work on top etc, I don’t think I have all the answers just yet, however, you have helped me and others here also to increase my limited understanding, so thank you.

Enjoy the weekend.

C

kc1978

Im sure in that group you can't. I don't think even a volunteer. You have been so careful. I definitely don't understand the rules.so id deffo check before I go toilet in a office block lol.

Probably get sanctions lol

poppy123456

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/896082#Comment_896082

That's not correct. There's no rules against working even when you have LCWRA. People do work whilst claiming this, including paid work. You can't be sanctioned either.