Genuine questions to ppl in paid work (or those wanting to start work) and also in receipt of PIP

apple85

(I’ve been thinking for many weeks how to start the conversation on PIP & means testing in a way that isn’t seen as scaremongering and I hope the following does so - mods feel free to reword parts that don’t sound so great)

Obviously their are huge conversations going on right now on how to create a working society that the disabled can take part in as well as welfare reform - one such discussion being if PIP will or should go means tested…..

Now I realise that many scope members can’t work and/or don’t want to work (and are therefore more concerned about other possible forms of reforms which I’m sure will be discussed on the scope forum closer to the 30th October autumn budget) - so this thread is more aimed at readers already in work or those considering or open to try work in the near to mid future.

For me the appeal of entering work would be to not only earn my own money but to remove reliance on esa/uc and eliminate the threat and worry that comes with the job centre, work coaches & sanctions, etc…….. (some would say contributing to society via paid work is a major peak - but in many cases those in work have less money incoming than not in work/fully on welfare…………….contributing alone isn’t necessarily enough for all disabled to still be able to pay their bills)

Being able to receive PIP whilst work is a huge attractive perk for me as it opens the door to be able to save for things like a deposit for a home, for ‘retirement’ and to build myself a safety net nest egg if possible.

For me PIP going means tested would be a total disaster (and on a selfish note, coupled with cuts from other areas outside of welfare likely in the budget would blow up all my back up plans and impact my long term future………….but off topic) - but I’m a single adult living by herself with a supportive family but still 30+ years to the state pension ‘safety net’…………………….there are so many PIP claimants with different circumstances that would be affected different ways and there have been some very eye opening semi related articles the past month

https://metro.co.uk/2024/08/10/cost-living-crisis-screwed-us-better-off-living-apart-21370660/

https://metro.co.uk/2024/09/03/want-keep-working-waiting-200-days-dwps-help-21531953/

So for those reading this thread who are working or who are hoping to work in the future (if health and conditions are right) I’ve got the following questions which I’m genuinely interested in what I’d imagine will be a large range of responses:

> if you are already working how would PIP going means tested effect your life? (Not at all, you’d no longer be able to afford to work anymore and any answer in between?

> if you aren’t currently working but want to in the near to mid future would pip going means tested discourage that aim or not really make a difference either way?

> are you 100% against means tested PIP in any form? (By that I means tested system based on yearly income and/or total savings/assets and threshold level in £’s that triggers means testing tapering/cut off point)

> if you aren’t 100% against the idea of means tested PIP, under what circumstances would it be ‘acceptable’? (Do you think it should be based on yearly income, total savings or something else, based on household or disabled adult financial situation alone, and at what threshold should it kick in and should it be tapered?)

(For example UC is based on both yearly income and total savings (both under tapering) but in terms of savings you can get full personal max level uc award up to £6k but then your uc amount gets tapered down till you achieve £16k savings at which point you no longer qualify - in comparison (and I may get a couple of things wrong here) child benefit (the 2 child limit one) isn’t tapered as far as I know (well there is the high income child benefit charge which is similar) but every 1 or 2 parent household that earns under £60k a year combined receives full entitlement of child benefit and isn’t affected by total personal savings or assets)

The reason why I think this discussion is important to have right now is like many I’ve been watching the winter fuel payment and have noticed the following observations:

• Labour higher ups haven’t done enough research of the knock on effects of making something ‘welfare’ based means tested
• Labour higher ups are significantly more stubborn on u-turns than the tories (so once it becomes policy that will most likely be set in stone)
• The labour mp’s at the early stage of this new gov are more worried about losing the whip than their conscience (this may change when we are a couple of years from next GE)

So it’s clear that labour need to have their minds changed/opened before it even gets announced so the disabled community has a responsibility to try and persuade mps and general public that certain ‘suggestions’ are counterproductive to labour goals

(For example - Kendall, making pip means tested likely want encourage into work and worst case will lead to an increase in uc uptake in disabled - my personal opinion only)

apple85

where I stand is that I’m majorly against means tested pip (it costs more for disabled to be truly independent and to me it’s ableist discrimination to make pip means testing - esp when things like married couples allowance and even the current ‘high earning’ threshold of child benefit exists)

The only way I’d find pip going means tested being somewhat ‘acceptable’ is:

• based on income only NOT savings and assets (some disabled have family member that are putting aside money once no longer with us to help secure their futures and take some of the worry - these ppl are already punished with IHT/CGT on point of inheritance (which will most likely increase come budget), let’s not make things worse by removing pip entitlement as well as uc over a relatively small amount of £16k+) - may be on a minority on this reasoning
• make threshold limit based on the disabled income alone, not combined with partners income if they have one (esp as many partners work and are also full time carers - means tested pip would punish them for loving someone who is disabled which is all kinds of wrong)…………unless the combined income is something like £150k a year before tax (living costs more for disabled)
• Threshold should be something like £65k a year earnings for disabled person which is tapered down up to £90k a year at which point you no longer qualify (once again disability costs in terms of aids can be so costly compared to our able counterparts that the threshold needs to be high

Reeves used the argument to labour mp’s yesterday that millionaires shouldn’t receive winter fuel payments - she can’t use that argument with pip as (cash rich at least) millionaires in their right mind would fill out the long PIP forms than put themselves through a hugely stressful assessment process!

(Honestly some disabled who clearly need extra financial help don’t apply for pip because of the attached stress with the process…………………….many pensioners are discovering that with the pension credit forms now!)

Scooby222

Apple85, I love your reasoning that no millionaires in their right mind would bother to fill out the long PIP forms and then put themselves through a hugely stressful assessment process! 🤣 Very true, the forms are a nightmare! I've never thought of the process as a form of practical means testing though. 😀

I agree that PIP should not be means tested, for all sorts of reasons.

Biblioklept

I don't currently but I have worked and claimed PIP. I feel very strongly that PIP shouldn't be means tested. Everyone knows that being disabled costs more than not being disabled and to me PIP is to help offset some of that. For all disabled people! Every bit of my PIP goes back into the economy anyway