UC managed Migration - Sick (fit?) notes
Hi
My husband and I are about to claim UC. We both receive PIP and he is on ESA without the requirement to work or look for work. Now be both have to claim UC I am a little confused under the 'Caring for someone section'.
Ideally, I believe I am unfit for work in my own right. During the claim process (which I have temporarily abandoned until I try and get more clarity), it asks whether I am caring for someone. We kind of look after each other, but he may be ok for now as he is migrating from ESA and doesn't have to provide a sick note (apparently).
I have told them about my health conditions and will need to provide sick notes until they assess me I guess (like from day 28/29?). If I put down I am a carer for him, would I also be able to continue the process of putting in sick notes and trying to get myself covered as unfit for work? I am just thinking of the future here in the sense my husband is prone to, well, not being alive and if he were to pass at any point I would want to be already covered by not having the DWP harass me. I know it sounds awful, but I have learning problems (can't read/write and have friends who help me a lot - of which one is asking this question for me) and I want to try to mitigate the stress if something were to happen.
I probably do qualify as a carer, we care for each other, is it best to say I am a carer or say no and go down the 'independent' route of qualifying in my own right for not being able to work? Or can I do both? So confusing.
Comments
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Hi,
You can't both claim LCWRA on a joint claim. Your husband will get that automatically when migrating from ESA support group. So there would be no extra money if you were also awarded LCWRA after a work capability assessment.
It would be best for you to claim the Carers Element of UC, as long as you are providing 35 hours of care as the criteria states.
If circumstances change in the future and you had to claim as a single person, you would have to go through the work capability assessment at that point.
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Thank you very much for this information. So not receiving extra money aside, as a couple I could not be classed as LCWRA whether I get paid or not? So if I were to put down I am carer instead, I can't or shouldn't send in sick notes in my own right? So basically I would have to wait for his LCWRA to end for any reason?
I think when we switch there is money protection (sorry, not sure what the official name is) as we will have claimed by the date of the switchover to keep our money the same. If I go as carer, will this cancel out the protection of keeping the same income?
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Sorry for the slow response. You can still be found to have LCWRA individually, and in claims where there is no carer, that is needed to remove the work commitments, though the second persons LCWRA doesn't show up on the UC statements.
Generally the LCWRA status remains on a single claim until the claim ends or the DWP review it. I am not sure in this case whether your own LCWRA status would remain on their systems while you are also listed as a carer in a joint claim, so that you would not need to go through another assessment if you had to claim singly in future. Hopefully another member can confirm that. It's not a situation that I've seen occur so far.
If you are not intending to have a work capability assessment because you will be getting Carers Element then you should not send any fit notes. You may need to explain that to the work coach in your journal, as listing health conditions automatically triggers a journal request for fit notes in most cases.
Yes, you are right that if UC rates add up to less than your old legacy benefits rates when migrating, you will receive Transitional Protection. The Carers Element will be included in the calculation for that, so you won't lose any money, but that will reduce the Transitional Protection at the beginning, or erode it if you only become a carer after the first statement.
I hope that all makes sense. 🙂
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Please, no need to apologise for ‘slow response’!, I really appreciate you taking the time to help, thank you.
I decided to claim the Carers Element at this point, which will hopefully reduce the initial stress, at least until we have our claim up and running. Although, as I claim PIP I wonder if that may now affect me. 90% of my caring would only be (I say only, but it can be stressful) kind of making sure my husband is OK and safe (that may not even count as caring as its not actually physically hands on, I’ll need to enquire with UC about that), the other part is making sure he takes pills and when i can popping a microwave meal in the micro and if (rarely) he gets dressed helping him a little there. So complicated.
Now they have asked him to attend the jobcentre for a committment appointment, he’s freaking out because he doesn’t leave the home and has been in the ESA non work group for years. He thought that would be carried over, but doesn’t look like it. I’m worried sick now he is going to do something to himself. We have messaged them, but no response yet. It may be the choice of going there or not being able to claim, what a choice people have. Honestly, it’s cruel. Sorry about the life story! Just getting it out of my system :)
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His ESA status will be carried over, but it takes a few weeks for ESA to confirm this with UC.
If it hasn't been done already, add a note on his Journal to say he's moving from ESA Support Group.
He can ask for a reasonable adjustment in the form of a telephone appointment.
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The commitments appointment can be done over the phone or online if necessary. I had mine done online as I can't travel to a Job Centre or use phones. There is definitely no need for your husband to go to the Job Centre. 🙂
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Thanks for all the information, so helpful. I have messaged them to say his difficulties and to remind them of his ESA no work group. Fingers crossed they make the adjustments. Horrible feeling so helpless, but comforting to know they should still class him as ESA and also comforting answers here! So much appreciated.
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It has been an unfortunately common occurrence for UC to request appointments with those who have migrated from ESA Support Group. It seems ESA takes longer to send over the confirmation of Support Group status than it takes for them to set up the initial commitments appointment. They should respect the note on the journal about the need for adjustments however. Be insistent if the work coach tries to push for a face to face appointment.
Let us know how you get on @Clare12542!
Oh, and welcome to the community 😊
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Thanks Jimm. This is being quite an eye opener, as well as stressful. More than happy to update as things happen, hopefully will help others who may be going through similar as well. So appreciate everybodies help here, been so helpful. ❤️
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Just an update. Had my call off UC today, wanted to confirm my identity even though I gave them my passport details when claiming online, weird, but went fine. They also agreed to phone my husband tomorrow instead of him having to go up there! He's well happy with that. Wished they had answered him last week as they stressed him out all weekend with him thinking he had to leave the home for the first time in many years :( The advisor who went through my ID today sorted that for him so I'm expecting his ESA support group (think that's what it is called) to continue as we have kindly been informed above :) He's expecting to have a re-assessment as the last was 2017, used to be more or less yearly, but whatever the medical guy who came to assess him at home last wrote, they left him alone all these years. Either way, things seem to be going as per the advice from the kind people here, so thank you! I will update after his call tomorrow and hopefully others in the same boat will also take comfort from our experience. Thanks all. 😊💗
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Good to hear it's going well so far. 🙂
Just one thing to clarify. The ESA Support Group doesn't continue exactly as it was. It changes over to the equivalent group within Universal Credit which is called LCWRA.
There shouldn't be a reassessment needed, but the forms for that are exactly the same as they were for ESA anyway.
The LCWRA element will show up on your UC statement online with an additional payment of £416.19. Plus you should get the Carers Element as discussed above, which is an additional £198.31 a month. Do check that both of those show on the statement when it gets generated. You can find the statements under the 'payments' heading. Sometimes the first statement is incorrect while they are still waiting for information to be sent across from ESA.
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brilliant, thank you for that detailed info. Should the first statement be incorrect if they are awaiting ESA confirmation, will we have to wait until the following month for any underpayment do you know? Jumping the gun a bit, but would be good to know in case!
Just an update: The lady who did my interview to check who I am also took it upon herself to cancel my husbands work commitment phone call - she said as you all have said, ESA status carries over so there was no point in the phone call! Fair play, that was really helpful and nice of her and eased his stress somewhat. So as it stands now, unless there are any other issues we should receive our first payment on Dec 19th.
I think there is a two week ‘run on’ of his ESA apparently? That being the case, I guess that would be deducted from our first payment of UC? Just wondering so we can budget as best as possible. Thank for the kind help 👍❤️
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Yes, Income Related ESA continues for 2 weeks and then stops. This payment will not be deducted from your first UC payment.
If your first statement isn't correct you'll need to put a message onto your journal under the payment section and tell them. Very often first statements are incorrect when migrating across, especially if you're entitled to Transitional Protection. If this happens they usually recalculate it quick quickly, as in within a week in most cases.
Did your ESA include couples Severe disability Premium?
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Thanks Poppy for confirming the ESA run on and it wont come out of my first payment. I’ll be sure to keep an eye on how much it is.
We kept having letters to claim the, what I think was called, Severe Disablement Allowance or premium you mentioned. They started after I got PIP as well as my husband. We didn’t understand what it was or how it would affect things and CAB had no idea, so I left it, but that was probably 3 years or so ago. If that is what you are talking about, no, we did not claim that. :)
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I'm shocked that Citizens Advice had no idea about the Severe disability Premium. Were you living with any other adults when your PIP claim started? (other than your husband) Was anyone claiming either carers allowance or carers element of UC for looking after either of you?
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Yea, CAB were of no help. They didn’t seem to understand what I was asking with the Severe Disablement Premium. All they kept doing/saying was giving me a benefits calculation but couldn’t seem to grasp my question on if I should claim the severe allowance and how/if it would affect other benefits. Suffice to say, I did not claim in the end just in case.
I think at the time my son was 19 but still in full time education, the other kids were younger, I think the oldest had already moved out. There was a brief period were my other son was claiming carers element before he went to full time work, but I can’t remember if that was the same time I was getting the letters to claim the severe disability premium. I don’t have a very good memory with timelines, so my answer may be a bit vague.
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Just an update and I am thankful for any advice.
My husband (currently freaking out) has received a letter from Employment & Support Allowance. It says: Contribution-based Employment & Support Allowance. Your contribution-based ESA will change to New Style ESA from (date). We will contact you to book an appointment that YOU MUST attend. This will be with a work coach from your local jobcentre and may take place over the telephone or face to face.
Your work coach will explain what you need to do to continue to get New Style ESA. They will create an agreement with you called a 'claimant commitment'.
You MUST accept your 'claimant commitment' to continue to get New Style ESA. If you do not accept a Claimant Commitment, we will not be able to pay you any New Style ESA and we may close your claim. At the appointment, we will ask you to: Explain how your illness or disability affects your ability to work; Provide medical evidence; Agree to tell us if your circumstances change.
Income-related ESA.
Your award of income-related ESA will end on (date). This is because Universal Credit is replacing the income-related ESA you get.
We will write to you separately about your UC claim. If you get Housing Benefit or Council Tax, your local authority will write to you about this.
END of letter
It is the first time we have heard of New Style ESA. My husband thought everything was going to UC, so now after receiving the above letter is freaking out quite a lot. Despite phoning the DWP we keep getting cut off after about an hour wait, so frustrating.
We are not sure why we had to migrate to UC from ESA if he now has to claim this 'New style ESA'. On top of that, explaining to the jobcentre staff how his ability to work is affected and provide medical evidence there and then is not going to be easy. Getting a GP appointment is nay on impossible. We are really confused now tbh. Will our claim for UC now end? Or if they feel he is not entitled to New Style ESA (as it seems like it is going to be up to the jobcentre staff to determine, and I'm assuming they are not medically qualified) will that mean he can claim UC instead? What a mess. Thanks for any advice. 😕
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What's happened to his ESA, means before he was getting both Contributions Based & Income Related.
When someone is on both CB & IR ESA, upon migration to UC the IR ESA ends and is replaced by UC, the CB ESA converts automatically into New Style ESA.
He will still be in the Support Group for NS ESA & automatically receive the UC equivalent (LCWRA).
NS ESA will be paid separately from UC, fortnightly at a rate of £276.40.
This will be deducted in full (598.68) from each UC payment.
As UC is a monthly benefit and ESA weekly, the numbers may look wrong- but are correct.
The letter is a generic letter, assuming the claim is a brand new one and not a transfer from the old ESA. Most of it doesn't apply to his claim.
He will need a commitments interview for NS ESA this is just a formality, his commitments will be to keep them updated with any changes. If a face to face is booked, he can ask for a phone call instead as a reasonable adjustment.
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That was fast, thank you for the explanation.
Can I ask you about this what you mentioned.
"The letter is a generic letter, assuming the claim is a brand new one and not a transfer from the old ESA. Most of it doesn't apply to his claim"
I'm reading this two different ways (sorry). Just so I can be clear to pass it on to my husband, your saying the letter from them is just a normal generic letter as they are assuming he has made a brand new claim, whereas, in reality, he would be classed as a transfer not a new claim?
And from your reply, it seems the appointment will be just to agree to keep them updated, rather than having to provide medical evidence there and then and explain himself there and then? Am I correct in how I see things from what you mentioned? Thank you.
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This comes up a lot so it's one of my copy & paste responses, with any editing done as needed.
Your understanding is correct.
The letter assumes it is a brand new claim.
When in fact his is a transfer.
Yes, that is what the appointment is for to agree his commitments, which for him will only be to keep them updated of any changes.
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