UC, LCWRA AND NsESA

Sunflower9

Hi,

I'm on UC plus LCWRA. I applied for NsESA as well after I read the advantages but somehow ended up with UC?? I'm eligible for NsESA as I worked until Jan 24 until I started caring for my dad (he has now passed away,) and my health also deteriorated. Can I push to be considered for ESA instead of UC - how do I do that?

This is with a bit of advance planning in mind as I'd ideally like to be able to do a few hours work (for mental health benefits as well as for financial benefits) plus I have a small private pension that I would like to draw down - primarily to use a lump sum to reduce my outstanding mortgage and to add a little to my monthly income as debts are accumulating.

Stay on UC or NsESA with my LCWRA.

Single person, no dependants.

poppy123456

You would have needed to have applied for New style ESA and UC separately because one doesn't automatically mean a claim for the other.

The UC will top up your income alongside the ESA. You can work while claiming both benefits but for ESA you must make sure it's less than 16 hours per week and earn no more than £183.50/week. This is known as permitted work. You must tell ESA if you start work and you must fill out a PW1 form.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/employment-and-support-allowance-permitted-work-form/permitted-work-factsheet

You can also work while claiming UC and you also have the work allowance. If you're not claiming for help with the rent your work allowance will be £673/month. This means you can receive that amount of earnings each month before deductions apply. For every £1 of earnings over that amount your UC will reduce by 55p. You must report the changes once you start working.

Lump sums for UC will be treated as capital, capital of less than £6,000 is ignored. Capital of more than £6,000 will reduce your UC by £4.35/month for every £250 or part thereof over £6,000. More than £16,000 and UC ends. You are allowed to pay off debt when claiming UC and this will not be treated as deprivation of capital. However, if you drawdown a lump sum you must report the changes and then tell them once you've paid off your debt.

For NsESA lump sums are ignored because it's not means tested.

Pension weekly/monthly income.. for UC this will reduce it £1 for £1.

For NsESA pension income of up to £85/week is ignored. For every £1 of pension over that amount your ESA reduces by 50p.

To be honest because you're claiming UC to top up your income then I see very little point in drawing an income from your pension, unless that pension is considerably more than what you receive for UC. However, only you can decide what is best for you.

I hope this helps.

Sunflower9

Thank you for this info - it's much more than I've received from job coach!

I applied for NsESA after applied for UC as I'd read about advantages re NI and no penalties re lump sums, small pension etc but heard nothing back? It was a confusing few months with UC/Carers allowance/WCA/LCWRA award/delays and then the inevitable lump sum overpayment. I don't recall any decision re ESA and stayed on UC - possibly due to being a carer?

I see your point re small monthly pension not worth it at moment while on UC but could possibly be beneficial if on ESA? Does LCWRA stay alongside NsESA? I think I'm confused as to whether LCWRA is a stand alone or is it classed as part of UC?

Also, in 7 years time when I reach state pension age and lose UC, the small monthly private pension will top up my SP so I don't want to take it all as lump sum (I can't anyway)

I also had no idea that I had a work allowance on UC?! I followed your link, thanks for that info.

So my query now is - is it possible and in my interests - to ask about moving from UC to NsESA in order to try to do some limited work hours, allow for a small monthly pension, and so as not to be penalised when a lump sum is drawn down? Or is it not possible to change from UC to NsESA and keep LCWRA? It seems UC is more punitive when you are trying to make changes to improve your quality of life...

poppy123456

LCWRA is part of UC, it's not a benefit on its own. As you're claiming both NsESA and UC together this is known as a dual claim. Your ESA is being deducted from your UC in full but UC is still topping up your income. You're still receiving payments from NsESA every fortnight and UC payments once a month.

You don't need to ask to move to NsESA because you're already claiming it. You can close your UC claim down but payments from that, including the LCWRA element will all stop.

I don't know why you would want to do that because it tops up your income. It also passports you to free NHS treatment for eye tests, prescriptions and dental if you have zero earnings or if your earnings are less than £935 in your last assessment period.

You can still work and continue with entitlement to both NsESA and UC providing it's within the permitted work rules for NsESA.

With regards to a small monthly pension income, I advised on that in my previous comment. As UC tops up your income I don't understand why you would want to have a small income from your pension because this will reduce your UC £1 for £1.

Sunflower9

Sorry, there is a misunderstanding. I get paid once monthly only. UC at 393 plus 419 LCWRA (Minus advance payments) I come out with 716 - mortgage is 300, gas & Elec 125, so I'm accumulating hundreds of pounds of debt each month just to pay bills. I'll keep looking into ways to sort this out or will have to sell house in few months. Thanks for your info

poppy123456

You said you had applied for NsESA so I took that as you were already claiming it. It makes no difference anyway and my advice is still the same. There's no financial gain to claiming the ESA due to it being deducted in full from any UC entitlement. Although it's worth claiming it because it's not means tested and you can't predict what may happen in the future.

The advice I gave about an income from your pension still remains the same. It doesn't make any financial sense to stop the UC and receive a pension, unless your pension is more than what you would receive for UC.

Have you looked at claim PIP (assuming you don't live in Scotland) it's a disability benefit which isn't means tested. Whether you qualify will depend on how your conditions affect you. It's definitely worth looking into because it will help you financially. You can see the descriptors here.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/Global/Migrated_Documents/adviceguide/pip-9-table-of-activities-descriptors-and-points.pdf

This a is much better link and well worth having a read of.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria#daily-living-activities

Going back to your pension, it maybe better to have a lump sum rather than a weekly/monthly income due to claiming UC. Capital of less than £6,000 is ignored for UC purposes.

Help with mortgage interest can also be claimed but it's a loan and will need to be repaid back in the future. Details here. You will not be able to claim this if you stopped the UC and claimed just NsESA.

https://www.gov.uk/support-for-mortgage-interest

Sunflower9

Thank you - I never received feedback re ESA. PIP was declined.

The ESA was mostly re not being means tested for future lump sums (inheritance) I get free health etc due to lifelong medical condition. Just updated my UC claim with some additional health conditions today - most of my conditions are progressive.

A lot to think about. Thank you

poppy123456

You're welcome. Please be very very careful about updating UC with additional information about your health conditions. You already have LCWRA so any additional conditions or even worsening of conditions will not change the LCWRA and this is the highest award you can have for UC. Some work coaches could take that as a change of condition and refer you for another work capability assessment, which you don't want to happen.

When you were refused PIP did you challenge that decision? If not, when was the decision made on that please? If it was less than 13 months ago you can still challenge that by requesting the Mandatory Reconsideration.

Sunflower9

I was told only a month to challenge the PIP decision?

Unfortunately, I had already updated re health conditions - can only hope this hasn't started a new WCA. I was advised I needed to update any health issues, getting better or worse, or it could negate my claim. I wish this was more straightforward! Everything feels like a potential minefield!

poppy123456

No, it's not 1 month, it's actually 13 months in total. If you're outside of the 1 month you must give a reason why you didn't request it within that time. If they refuse you can just proceed to Tribunal.

You were given misleading information because a worsening of condition will not change the award you already have.