Wednesday: Statement on Benefits
Comments
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totally forgot about this but the massive ‘Indiana jones stone ball crushing everything in its path’ dwp mentality was actually happening well before ‘IDS BC’ (before is in Duncan smith years)
And it was our current Home Secretary (a starmer ally) who was behind them
Labour have a lot of good, decent MPs - the problem is a number of the cabinet are starmer loyalists (and some of those that were MPs 15yrs back were Blair loyalists)
Look I was a fan of starmer a few years back and defended him however (and I do know some of it can’t be helped bcos of the mess the tories left) starmer has done a 180 from what he advertised himself as to Labour members when campaigning to be Labour leader.
It feels wrong to be so critical of Labour (esp with far right bonkers mess of tories and reform realistically being the only other parties that can challenge Labour next ge as of now) but with same of the MPs as ministers starmers gov is basically ‘Blair gov mark 2’ and Blair was never traditional Labour (more blue Labour)
I’m not sure it will happen in my lifetime but I’d like to see a traditional labour that ppl talk about existing before I was born in the 80s. But realistically I’m not sure the public will ever vote for that again
I’m of a different generation to many on this forum and the number of years and life experience does impact one’s opinion - prehaps the younger you are the more idealistic you still are
It’s a gut punch to be critical of Labour esp this soon after finally getting rid of the tories (and my frustration is aimed at starmers top team………not Labour MPs as a whole)
There rumours that some Labour mp backbencher were pretty upset about the pensioner winter payment cuts and the waspi women situ (they felt they hadn’t signed up for these policies) but for now are biting their tongue and towing the line - it will be interesting to see for how many Labour MPs will feel the lines been crossed by higher ups depending on how extreme welfare reforms & cuts end up being
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apple, Yvette Cooper only held that role for a month or two before IDS became Work and Pensions secretary in April 2010.
He has been an MP continuously for 42 years but has been noticeably quiet about welfare since being gifted his seat in 2024.
The ESA rollout in 2008 was his baby and Timms his wet nurse.
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ministers can’t even say the word ‘disabled’
I think the latest preferred term is ‘work limiting conditions’
(Think about it - when was the last time starmer/reeeves/kendall mentioned the word ‘disabled’ directly by name when talking about sickness benefits (it’s a serious question as I honestly don’t know) - those 3 have made clear that Labour isn’t the party for the disabled unless we come under ‘working person’ and in the last few days reeves has suggested she doesn’t see us as ‘ordinary ppl’ and that it’s perverse that sick ppl should get extra money from the dwp then our able counterparts (so we can have the same quality of life as disability brings extra living costs))
even if our worst fears of welfare reforms don’t come to pass - the verbal attacks (intended that way or not) by those in a position of power have been cruel and unacceptable and done untold damage (contributing to MH of claimants rocketing up - it’s basically a form of bullying & very few don’t get affect by that sort of thing)
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The Lords have made clear that they want parity between unemployed claimants and disabled claimants. Closing the disability employment gap has been Tory mantra since 2015.
As we were discouraged from campaigning for a permanent £20 uplift to the UC Personal Allowance, there will only be a Health Element added for PIP recipients (reassessments and new rules aside).
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It began with "Halving the disability employment gap"
It became "Reducing the disability employment gap"
It's now "Closing the disability employment gap"
😶
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okay I’m throwing in the towel on this subject
It’s obvious that you think that 98-100% of this sickness welfare fiasco over the last 15 odd year was the fault of the tories and Labour should take no ownership or accountability of Tory decisions they’ve kept or expanded.
It just so happens that I hugely disagree with you
both of us are using a different set of facts for our reasoning so we could both be right (but also both be wrong) - we will probably never know
I think it’s healthy to have different viewpoints and other scope members can make up their own minds
But arguing about it is pointless - I have my viewpoint and you have yours and we shouldn’t be wasting time discrediting or disproving what the other says as parts of our views don’t clash and co exists as ‘truths’
where I’m am at fault is that I said I needed to take time from the forum for my own health but I’ve kind of allowed myself to be goaded into defending my views when someone try’s to ‘trash’ them and question your own knowledge (whatthe - I know that wasn’t your intent and I still have maturity to learn in knowing when to walk away from a conversation and not react and for that I apologise…..& prehaps blame my ocd a little)
So I think I need to follow my own advice, stop trying to get the last word & consensus and in the nicest way say I’m out
Leaving this interesting article by the independent here:0 -
This is from disability news service
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The ongoing benefits fiasco is 100% Iain Duncan Smith.
The ex-DWP ministers in Starmer's cabinet know exactly how he did it!
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apple, you have nothing to apologise for!
I have long stressed over what was coming so all this is painful to observe. The snakes in Starmer's cabinet desperately want to divert our attention away from them.
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I guess they're bringing forward their Green Paper, they're doing this "crackdown" to placate to Reform supporters who support cutting all benefits by the way….just not the state pension which most of their voters are on.
Nothing has changed, remember in order to enact changes legislation is needed right? Labour's biggest opposition is from their own MP's ironically enough.
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got to say I’m intrigued by your post here
You obviously think that starmer is a decent person (I think we all did at the labour leadership campaign 4 years back) - he’s not a career politican (only been an mp for 10 years and it’s his first political position - many mps have roles in councils and as political aides) and reading his personal history, if he is indeed in full control at the top, the direction labour is going in makes no sense.
I guess what I’m asking you is do you think starmer is either getting bad advice or being manipulated? (on the one hand starmer is so stupidly smart it’s hard to see him being swayed so easily - however he is a relatively new politican and career politicians are masters at manipulation and spin)
You talk about snakes in the Labour Party - could you elaborate?
As I said before, the only other labour gov I’ve had in my lifetime was Blair whom ppl keep telling me wasn’t really a labour gov (blue labour) and labour govs in the past have been more left wing/socialist
And the cabinet as a whole looks like a continuation of the Blair years - though there are a few exceptions such as nandy and maybe Miliband (Jonathan Reynolds is such a disappointment as he was a great shadow work & pension minister and he has an autistic son so he should be an ally but has become a ‘yes man’ and sold out in the past 18 months - very interested to see his reaction (or silence) to upcoming things as technically it has a direct effect on his family) - but the likes of cooper, reeves, Kendall, streeting and lamy are career politicians (most likely power hungry) and closer to blairite than labour of yester year.
Also I think back to the comedy ‘yes, minister’ (never seen but my parents have told me all about) where politicians are basically puppets and it’s actually aides & civil servants running the show - Morgan McSweeney is starmers chief of staff and also ran Kendall’s leadership campaign (if there’s a ‘puppet master’ situation then he’s the most likely one pulling some of the strings) and to be blunt I don’t trust him as far as I could throw him
The situation with starmer is weird - he’s either said whatever he’s need to say in the past 5 years to gain power and painted versions of himself which were Oscar worthy performances………………..or he’s naive and has allowed himself to be ‘puppeted’ which doesn’t make any sense either
I don’t want to get in another slightly heated debate as we seem to have a lot of different views (and both of us a streak of stubbornness) and honestly I’d fall off my chair if you 100% agree with the above - if I’m honest this starmer government has confused the hell out of me and I’m interested to read another take (regardless of whether I agree with it or not - a different perspective can help you think of things you hadn’t before)0 -
I have to say for a human rights lawyer he has a very bizarre way of dealing with them.
I think Reeves "thinks" she runs that party, But Bu Christmas she'll be shuffled off into a background position, he can't do anything now so early in the parliament because it'll backfire on him not her, but a few labour mps have expressed embarrassment and bewilderment at the "chancellor's" constant Frank Spencer moments, if it wasn't so dangerous it'd be hilarious.
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She really reminds me of George Osborne in a wig. Even looks like him a bit. Night and day between her and Gordon Brown as chancellor
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would firing reeves as chancellor give starmer a re-start in the eyes of voters
it’s an interesting thought (in the past pm’s have thrown ministers under the bus to shift blame and shield themselves from public and internal party criticism……aka save themselves at all costs) - 2 ministers have lot their jobs since starmer took charge but neither were undeniable bus throwing situations (though both occasions the back story was dodgy as hell)For me firing reeves wouldn’t be enough to grant starmer a fresh start - there’s a number of ministers that need to go as well as mcsweeney and he’d have to 90-180 degree some current policies (and apologise for some of his quotes over the last 6 months that to put politely are unbecoming of an human rights lawyer)
I’m personally not sure he can turn things as to many of the public his government have already done things that won’t be forgiven or forgotten by the next ge regardless of what they do next
The major reason the window is still open to turn things around is because right now labours main opposition in the next ge are very far right versions of reform and tories and many of the public want a ‘sane’ option
(Another reason they may targeting disabled claimants is they are probably reasoning that we are so scared of reform/tories getting in next ge that we’ll continue giving them them strategic vote so they can do whatever they want and we’ll remain scared obedient little sheep» - I personally think they are underestimating a large amount of vulnerable ppl that may have very little to lose after reeves/kendall are finished with us and more willing to go ‘f*** it’ and cast a ‘nuclear’ vote for Lib Dem’s or greens (or even reform/tories if sanity has been totally lost after years of dwp mistreatment of disabled) - although a new centralist party could totally shake things up option wise)
look I’m open to starmer turning things around but he needs to do so asap (and risk looking weak with several necessary u turns) but I have doubts that starmers labour will have the massive shake up needed and be able to undo already done damageI’m still favouring the nuclear option of labour having an internal coup before the next ge and starmer ousted (tories had several unelected leaders the past 7ish years, so I’m okay with labour having another spin of the wheel if a new leader could improve things)
But if we got back 2020 version of starmer that many change my current position
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My dad really hates her voice………….not sure that’s enough of a reason to get rid of her though 😅
(her opinions on thatcher and trump however……..)
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Apple85 it's enough reason .😅 I have hyperacusis where everything sounds louder so, for me, it's definitely a good enough reason 🤣
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She promised to leave PIP alone if Labour got in and many disabled people voted for Labour based on that pledge. She is throwing us under the bus,now that Labour have got in. She's screwed over business owners, pensioners and disabled people.
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I'm hoping tomorrow's statement will put an end to a lot of speculation. We need facts not opinions.
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Can starmer fast track benefot changes
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What time tomorrow she doing speech dont know if i can watch
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