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Esa50 or lcwra?

Hels45

Is there a way of providing answers under each question? Sorry to ask but I struggle alot with reading and processing due to pain and brain fog.

Here goes.....

I applied for UC but was told I'm not eligible to receive financial support due to my husbands wages. So I currently get awarded 0 pence. I still have to accept commitment every month.

I've also applied for ESA and currently get £90.50 per week.

I've since been given a uc50 form to complete. I'm now questioning whether I should close the UC account as I'm under the impression I would receive more financial support if I was awarded the ESA support group instead of LCWRA with UC. And given I receive £0.00p UC benefit this seems to make sense. Is this correct? If not correct I've got some more questions below.

If I complete the uc50 and get awarded lcwra does that mean I'll get £416.19 per month plus my current ESA £90.50 per week?

If I do the ESA work capability form instead and get awarded the support group would I still get £90.50 per week and the support group rate of £138.20? Or would I only get £138.2 per week?

In the bigger picture which would be the better option to apply for financially? Esa50 or uc50?

I've been told ESA support group better long-term as you can remain in group after the standard ESA finishes. Would this not happen in the lcwra group?

Asking such questions as I'm super worried about finances and how to continue paying bills.

Is there any benefit to staying under UC and hopefully getting LCWRA even if it means getting less financial support than I would under the ESA support group?

If it's best to apply for the esa50 do I ring jobcentre plus? And explain situation. Could I start that process rolling straight away as already receive basic ESA and could I close UC today or would I have to wait? I have a health assessment phone call after 24th Feb for the UC50...... Worried if I complete it I'll be stuck with UC route which may be unhelpful

Saw some information about migration from ESA to UC. Does this apply to new style ESA as well? As far as I'm aware it only relates to income related old style ESA

Any help would be appreciated,
Many thanks,

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Hels45

Forgot to add I may be entitled to some compensation. With this in mind....overall which would be better financially given I don't get any UC due husband's wage. ESA support group or lcwra?

Many thanks

Kimi87

Do you have a dependent child on your claim?

My further reply depends on the answer to this question.

Hels45

I don't. Just me and my husband.

Kimi87

Thanks for answering, here is a reply I drafted earlier.

I've since been given a uc50 form to complete. I'm now questioning whether I should close the UC account as I'm under the impression I would receive more financial support if I was awarded the ESA support group instead of LCWRA with UC. And given I receive £0.00p UC benefit this seems to make sense. Is this correct? If not correct I've got some more questions below.

If you are awarded LCWRA then you will also get a Work Allowance. This is the amount your husband can earn before deductions are made.

Currently, for every £1 he earns £0.55p is taken fron your UC award.

With the Work Allowance, he can earn £404 (if you claim Housing Element) or £673 (if you don't) before that deduction is made.

Depending on your husbands wage the UC still might be zeroed even with the addition of LCWRA & work allowance. You could fill out a benefits calculator as though you already get LCWRA and see if there is an award remaining.

https://www.gov.uk/benefits-calculators

If I complete the uc50 and get awarded lcwra does that mean I'll get £416.19 per month plus my current ESA £90.50 per week?

If you are awarded LCWRA then your ESA will be deducted in full from your UC award. When NS ESA rises to £138.20 a week, the deduction is £598.86. I know this looks wrong but it isn't, ESA is paid weekly and UC monthly, and there are 4.3 weeks in a month.

If I do the ESA work capability form instead and get awarded the support group would I still get £90.50 per week and the support group rate of £138.20? Or would I only get £138.2 per week?.

£138.20 a week is the maximum NS ESA award.

In the bigger picture which would be the better option to apply for financially? Esa50 or uc50?

UC as it would top up your ESA income (assuming there is entitlement financially to UC)

I've been told ESA support group better long-term as you can remain in group after the standard ESA finishes. Would this not happen in the lcwra group?

Not sure what you mean, as long as you remain entitled both NS ESA & UC LCWRA carry on.

Is there any benefit to staying under UC and hopefully getting LCWRA even if it means getting less financial support than I would under the ESA support group?

As before if entitled UC would top up your NS ESA income.

If it's best to apply for the esa50 do I ring jobcentre plus? And explain situation. Could I start that process rolling straight away as already receive basic ESA and could I close UC today or would I have to wait? I have a health assessment phone call after 24th Feb for the UC50...... Worried if I complete it I'll be stuck with UC route which may be unhelpful

With a dual claim (UC & NS ESA) you have one work capability assessment which counts for both benefits. The decision applies to both. If in future UC ends for whatever reason, you'll still get the NS ESA.

Saw some information about migration from ESA to UC. Does this apply to new style ESA as well? As far as I'm aware it only relates to income related old style ESA

Yes migration to UC only applies to the old IR ESA, not New Style ESA.

Forgot to add I may be entitled to some compensation.

What kind of compensation? Some types are excluded from calculating the amount of your capital for UC purposes for one year.

Repayment of debt is also permitted for UC purposes so if your compensation took you over 16k (the UC upper limit) and wasn't excluded, you could pay off debts to take it back down without it being considered deprivation of capital.

Hels45

I feel I need to close my UC account as I get £0.00.

I would get more financial support under ESA support group than LCWRA from my understanding.

I'm under new style ESA anyways but been given the UC50. I know it's the same as esa50. But I want to be processed under ESA.

Can I close my UC account and just remain on ESA to go through the work capability process? Or is it too late now I've been sent the UC50?

If I did close the UC account and got in touch with ESA to explain that would they roll me into the work capability process or have I now missed that stage with them? I opened an account with new style ESA Oct 2024

Feeling overwhelmed as my head in constant pain with condition and can't seem to sort this out

Many thanks

Kimi87

My reply was very long, please take some time to read, re read and digest it.

Your current UC entitlement is £0, but if you get LCWRA that may change both through the additional money which increases your award before deductions, and the Work Allowance which mean less deductions to your husbands earnings.

poppy123456

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/979232#Comment_979232

You do not need to close your UC claim and I see no need for you do that, unless you've used a benefits calculator and taken into consideration the work allowance, which you would have if found to have either LCW or LCWRA and there's still no entitlement.

Even if you're unable to use a benefits calculator there's no harm in letter the UC claim run because if there is entitlement if you're found to have LCWRA then the work allowance would apply from the assessment period in which you provided your first fit note.

When you have a dual claim for ESA and UC the work capability assessment will be done through UC and not ESA. There's no difference anyway and as kimmy advised, the decision applies to both benefits.

poppy123456

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/979241#Comment_979241

Well there is because there are still many people claiming the old ESA, myself included. For this reason, so many people refer to it as Support Group, rather than LCWRA.

Hels45

Kimmy and Poppy.....

I'm struggling to understand what you call the work allowance? Is there something I can read about it please?

Is it connected solely to LCWRA?

We aren't entitled to any other elements of UC assistance as my husband earns over the threshold.

I prefer the idea of just being under ESA as it's not means tested in case I get compensation from work.

I was told UC won't be of benefit as id get more from the ESA support group

Really confused. Apologies. My migraines are so bad every day which is probably not helping.

If there's an easy to read guide about LCWRA and work allowance or comparing this to ESA support group let me know. Or if you have the time to explain that would be super helpful

Thanks

Kimi87

Currently on your UC claim, for every £1 earned UC reduce your award by £0.55p.

If you are given LCW or LCWRA, your husband can earn £404 (if claiming Housing Element) or £673 (without HE) before UC will start the deduction above.

That is known as the work allowance.

Example, your husband earns £1000 per month.

Current deduction £550

Deduction with Work Allowance (no HE) £179.85

(£1000- £673 ignored= £327 to deduct from)

If awarded LCWRA, your UC entitlement would rise by £416.19.

That with the work allowance means your UC award might not be zero.

Hels45

Hi Kimmy

I feel so thick

(£1000- £673 ignored= £327 to deduct from).........

What is the £327 being deducted from? My work coach said from the "award" what is the award in the first place?

We were told we get £0.00 UC financial support based on my husband's wages which vary from £1,500 to £1,800. So no housing support or anything due to these wages. The only thing I may be entitled to is the LCWRA and the work allowance component.

Sorry for questions. Because I don't understand concepts of UC I'm struggling to understand my work coach replies

Hels

Kimi87

UC is a benefit made up of many different elements depending on what you are entitled to.

https://www.gov.uk/universal-credit/what-youll-get

Added up they form the award.

Once the award is calculated, any deductions are made.

With LCWRA your UC award before deductions would rise by £416.19.

I gave example figures to better explain the work allowance.

Now you have given me a real figure.

Say your husband earns £1500.

Currently UC deduct £0.55 for every £1 he earns and this starts at the first £1 he earns.

With a work allowance he can earn £673 (if not claiming help with rent via Housing Element) or £404 (if you are claiming help with rent vua Housing Element) before they make any deductions.

So on a wage of £1500 they would start that deduction at £1096 or £827.

So you have the increased award and a work allowance with LCWRA, which means there might be some leftover UC in payment.

poppy123456

You mentioned no housing support due to your husbands earnings. Do you rent or own your home?

Are you currently claiming either PIP or ADP daily living or DLA mid/high rate care?

Hels45

Hi Kimmy and Poppy

So based on £1,500 I did the following calculation....

my UC account says ppl are entitled to

Standard allowance and housing which totals £1,167.60

If my husbands wages are £1,500 they'll deduct £0.55. total deduction being £825. They also deduct my current standard ESA £392.17 (worked out over 12 months) this means total deductions would be £1,217.17

So,

Award of standard allowance and housing is £1,167.60 - £1,217.17 deductions which obviously equal £O.00 UC award for us.

...............

Now onto lcwra and work allowance

My work coach said the work allowance we could get is £404. Don't know if that's right?? We don't get any housing help towards our rent due to advice calculations.

So based on £1,500 wages and work allowance of say £404

£1,500 - £404= £1,096

Then

£1,096 x 0.55 = £602.80

Meaning £602.80 would be deducted from the "award " as my work coach calls it.

My question is..... What is the award? What am I deducting £602.80 from?

Is our award £0.00?

As they already deducted £1,217.17 from the standard allowance and housing which is £1,167.60

Any help would be great

Calculations like you provided help me to understand

Hels

Hels45

Poppy and Kimmy

What is ADP daily living or DLA mid/high rate care?

After I've completed the esa50/uc50 I will attempt pip.

I've read about premium rates with lcwra and ESA..... What's that about and how do ppl claim?

Also,

Why do ppl/internet say you're better off with ESA support group? Read after 12 months if you are in the ESA support group your benefit doesn't stop like standard ESA and something about there is less assessment periods then with lcwra?

Make thanks

Hels45

Actually I don't think I'm entitled to disability premiums? Im only on new style ESA and sorry get: housing, income support, income job seekers

I dont claim adp or dla and don't think I can now. I only started claims process in Oct 2024. Get new style ESA and £0.00 UC

Apart from esa support group or lcwra/work allowance, am I only entitled to apply for pip?

poppy123456

Disability Premiums are not paid with UC or New style ESA. They are only paid with the old means tested benefits like Income Related ESA/JSA or Income Support.

I'm confused, you mentioned housing costs and your total UC award before deductions is £1,167.60. Then further on down you mentioned you don't get help towards housing rent. Can you please confirm that you rent your home from a landlord and you have liability to pay rent?

If you do and that figure of £1,167.60 includes help with rent liability then your rent entitlement would be £550/month.

You did this calculation….

£1,500 - £404= £1,096

Then

£1,096 x 0.55 = £602.80

Meaning £602.80 would be deducted from the "award " as my work coach calls it.

My question is..... What is the award? What am I deducting £602.80 from?

In this case, the £602.80 is deducted from your maximum UC entitlement before deductions.

Let me do a calculation for you, assuming that your UC includes help with the rent and you have entitlement to the work allowance if the decision on your work capability assessment is either LCW or LCWRA.

Standard allowance couples £617.60/month

Housing element £550/month

LCWRA element £416.19/month

Total UC before deductions = £1586.76 …

Partners earnings £1,500 - £404 work allowance = £1,096 x 0.55 = £602.80 (earnings deduction)

Your ESA will increase to £276.40/fortnight.. UC deduction for this will increase to £598.86/month.

Total deductions.. £602.80 + £598.86 = £1,201.66 - £1,586.76 = £385/month UC payable if the decision on the work capability assessment is LCWRA.

PIP is a disability benefit. ADP is Adult Disability Payment for those that live in Scotland only. If you don't live in Scotland it would be PIP you need to apply for.

For this reason it’s definitely worth keeping the UC claim open until the decision is made on your WCA.
I hope those calculations help.

Hels45

Hi Poppy

Apologies for delayed response. I've been so ill with this condition.

Thanks for the detailed response.

Can I just clarify with your calculation:

"Total deductions.. £602.80 + £598.86 = £1,201.66 - £1,586.76 = £385/month UC payable if the decision on the work capability assessment is LCWRA."

Question...

If I stick with both ESA and UC would I get either

£385 in total after deductions with UC

£385 UC per month after their deductions and £598.86 ESA

Many thanks

Hels

Kimi87

It would be the second calculation

£385 UC per month after their deductions and £598.86 ESA

Hels45

What are the disadvantages to staying in both? Ie, being with universal credit?

I heard of I try to go for a job but my health deteriorates again then I wouldn't be accepted back into UC. Is that right? Would it also impact on ESA?