DWP over riding doctors
So am I right that health professionals, Ie nurses at best can override Doctor's,when it comes to a WCA assessment ?
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Yes, a health assessor can overrule a GP Fit Note when it comes to benefit eligibility.
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Wow I shocked, it's almost like it 1939 again , people that can work to that side, people that can't go take a shower, how is it legal that these health professionals that are not doctors, can override Doctor's who spend years to qualify ??
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All health assessors receive the same training, and are considered equal to colleagues - outside ranks don't matter.
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But there healthcare professionals not doctors, that's my point , not one of them assessors, have the qualifications of a general practitioner, that spent years earn there right to be call a doctor, so why does their opinion override that of a doctor and a professional ? I don't get it
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And how that is legal ?
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And to prove my point not one of the assessors will introduce herself as a doctor, its shocking that people lifes ,are in the hands of people that don't even have a degree in medicine
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Are you a healthcare professional ?
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No I am not! I claim benefits because I am unwell just like yourself.
I'm explaining the system.
The DWP contract the health assessment agencies to medically assess benefit claims.
The health assessment agencies employ people with a medical background and give them all the same training to carry out the assessments under the DWP specification.
The health assessment agency then send an assessment report to DWP with a recommendation.
The DWP Decision Maker then makes the decision on the claim. They usually follow the assessment recommendation, but not always.
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Dear @bench ,
Dear @Bench,
I understand your frustration and concerns regarding the PIP assessment process. As a disabled registered health professional(currently on long term sickness absence and a benefit claimant ), I wanted to share some insights from my perspective.
All healthcare professionals, whether doctors, nurses, physiotherapists, or others, undergo rigorous training in their respective fields and are regulated by their professional bodies, such as the General Medical Council (GMC), Nursing and Midwifery Council (NMC), and Health and Care Professions Council (HCPC). Each profession has its own scope of practice, legal responsibilities, and ethical guidelines, ensuring accountability and patient safety.
The role of a PIP assessor is fundamentally different from that of a treating clinician. While a doctor’s/Nurse/Physio or OT role is to diagnose/assess and treat medical/physical/mental conditions, a PIP assessor’s role is not to provide treatment or make medical decisions but rather to conduct a functional assessment based on strict eligibility criteria set by the DWP. These assessments are structured around predefined descriptors that determine entitlement to PIP, which focuses on how a condition affects daily living and mobility, rather than the diagnosis itself.
It is important to clarify that PIP assessors whether they are nurses, physiotherapists, paramedics, or even doctors do not override a treating clinician’s medical opinion. However, the system requires them to evaluate the evidence provided, including medical reports, claimant statements, and their own assessment findings, to align the case with the PIP criteria. Unfortunately, as many former assessors have shared, their professional judgment is often subject to internal pressures, with supervisors reviewing reports and decision-makers at the DWP having the final say, many of whom do not have medical training. This is one of the reasons why so many decisions are overturned at tribunal.
I completely appreciate how distressing this system can be for disabled claimants,like all of us,particularly when assessments do not seem to reflect the reality of our conditions. However, I also believe it’s important not to undermine the professionalism and integrity of healthcare workers who take on these roles. Many enter the role hoping to help people, only to find themselves constrained by the rigid framework imposed by the DWP. Some leave because they feel unable to practice in a way that aligns with their professional values of compassion, respect, and ethical integrity.
Personally, I was offered a role as a PIP assessor but declined after learning that the reasonable adjustments I needed due to my disability would not be accommodated. This reinforced to me just how challenging the role can be not only for claimants but for assessors as well.
I respect your right to challenge and question the system. However, I encourage discussion that remains fair and balanced, recognising that while the system is flawed, individual healthcare professionals working within it are not the enemy. They, like claimants, are working within a difficult and often frustrating system. If you feel you have been unfairly assessed, the best course of action is to challenge the decision through mandatory reconsideration and, if needed, an appeal to tribunal, where decisions are often overturned based on a fuller review of the evidence.
I hope this perspective helps, and I truly wish you the best in your journey to secure the support you need.
(The insights I’ve shared are based on my personal experiences and understanding of the system.)
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@bench my experience is yes they do (overide) and imo, absolutely unfairly and without knowledge - or very little of it.
You'll see most Disability Assessor roles require a minimum of one years' clinical experience - a year is very little in terms of knowledge of what they're assessing with claimants often having many comorbities. They'll be from nursing, physiotherapy, paramedic background.
It's only really when you receive their written report, prepared by the Assessor, that you can review that as to it's accuracy from your Assessment. Whilst that is what the Decion Maker uses to make their decision, the DM does not make changes to it. The responsibility for its' accuracy lies with the original Assessor.
As an example, mine had several untruths in it (not misinterpretation or miscommunucation). I was declined for PIP. 18 months later I was awarded PIP at Tribunal and DWP forced to apologise by the Chair at Tribunal.
Should that happen again at review for instance, I will be absolutely reporting the Assessor to their Regulatory Body ie Nursing and Midwifery Council. The code of conduct requires them to act with integrity etc etc and not to cause harm.
I, as I should be, am expected to act with honesty in my applications for support which I always have. I expect the same back. And that is different from Assessors acting just from poor knowledge, mine was a case in point (lies) and sadly, not rare (likely due to bonuses paid to them). Just because I was able to prove that at Tribunal I should not have been given 18 months of stress which caused deterioration in health.
Whilst it's obviously the government responsible for the Green Paper/potential changes to our detriment, some of the Assessors have a lot to answer for and could, if they had integrity, make the process less traumatic, by BEING TRUTHFUL.
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benchOnline Community Member Posts: 127 EmpoweringMarch 22And how that is legal ?Hi bench, the rules allowing only GP's to issue a Statement of Fitness for Work - a Med3 form or 'fit note' - were revised by the 2016 welfare reforms so that health professionals such as pharmacists can now provide them.
Yes, DWP's contractors conduct health assessments without medical training. Those assessors then advise the DWP but do not themselves make any decisions on your claim.
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What a great insight and explanation. I knew a lot of it but the remainder has really helped. And OMW on a government agency NOT adhering to the Equality Act 2010 on reasonable adjustments….that explains everything…..and yet the government expects the private sector employers to adhere to them…..the absolute irony!!!!!
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Hi @Santosha12,
Having reviewed my own PIP report and many others shared online, one significant issue I’ve noticed is the lack of mandated in-depth reasoning within assessments. For example, a health assessor might state, “I observed the claimant unzipping their bag and lifting it off the table; therefore, they meet descriptors 2, 3, and 4.” In clinical practice, however, detailed clinical reasoning and inference are required for decision-making. In the PIP process, this level of justification isn’t mandated.
If assessors were required to provide thorough reasoning for their findings, it would likely increase accountability and improve decision-making. The entire health assessment process and the role of assessors have long been debated, even within professional groups and regulatory bodies.
Unless transparency improves through comprehensive documentation and structured communication with claimants’ medical teams, especially when assessors lack expertise in specific conditions. the process will continue to disadvantage claimants.(Again, these are just my personal viewpoints based on my own experiences as a disabled claimant and as a registered health professional observing wider discussions.)
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Thanks @LadyTinks . The medical assessment processes for disabled claimants within the DWP welfare system are not well designed and certainly have room for improvement and greater inclusivity. Unfortunately, the proposals in the Green Paper seem to move in the opposite direction.(that’s an entirely separate discussion altogether to be followed in our main Green paper discussion thread)
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The medical assessment processes for disabled claimants…
Health assessments - not medical anything!
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The DWP contract the health assessment agencies to medically assess benefit claims.
No, they conduct a health assessment ( a computer-led interview )
The health assessment agencies employ people with a medical background and give them all the same training to carry out the assessments under the DWP specification.
No, their background in the main is healthcare not the medical profession.
The term healthcare professional also includes any professional who is included within a 'Section 60' order of the Health Act 1999. A medical practitioner is a doctor fully registered with the General Medical Council, who permits them to provide or supervise the provision of the regulated activity.
CQC
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Apologies for the mix up terminologies @WhatThe . I was trying to imply that the “assessment processes (in relation to benefits)for disabled claimants within the DWP welfare system are not well designed ……” and as I said these are my views from personal experiences.
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I did not know until now that the interview was computer led ….. 😳
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@noonebelieves it's very interesting reading your perspectives on it, thank you for sharing them, and I've re-read the thread again. And again. And repeat 🤣. My poor brain. You do raise very valuable points and, in particular, the fact that Assessors are assessing functionality.
It's a minefield, or a dichotomy maybe. The WCA outcome when a claimant is denied an award (unfairly and then is awarded at Tribunal) is at odds with, say a GP, who has already determined that the claimant is not fit to work and who would have a good understanding of how a given diagnosis is impacting their patients' daily living. It is as though the DWP are overriding the GPs knowledge of the effect on functionality (rather than the diagnosis itself).
Sorry if Im not expressing this very succinctly. Suffice to say, it is not a job I would want. My own assessment determined for example that "she can stand in theatre for twelve hours". I had not worked in theatre for 10 years (since my nurse training) and theatre work wasn't even mentioned during my assessment or in my application.
It could be interesting to see how the DWP/assessing companies, successfully recruit, and retain, the Assessors bearing in mind the current climate and strong feelings regarding the proposed changes. Not least because of the evidence-based practice underpinning and informing what we do as Registered healthcare professionals.
On that note, I was sadly unable to revalidate in March, I keep checking the NMC to see if I've been removed yet. Don't know why I do it to myself. Was devastated over the last 6 months or so to realise I might not be able to despite very many attemptsto try. All the best to you @noonebelieves .
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Dear @santosha12,
Thank you for your thoughtful words. I completely relate to the struggle of processing all this- my brain isn’t quite what it used to be either, and I can empathise deeply.
You raise an important point about the fundamental disconnect between the DWP’s assessment process and the clinical judgment of treating professionals. This is precisely why I believe there should be a structured, professional exchange between health assessors and a claimant’s GP or specialist, ensuring decisions are based on a complete and accurate picture of functionality. The current system, where the DWP simply sends a form to the GP, is wholly inadequate. These forms do not allow for meaningful input along the descriptors that actually determine entitlement, whether PIp or WCA. Even when clinicians do provide relevant input, the rigid bureaucratic framework and DWP-dictated assessment protocols often override it .
If you look at the WCA Handbook for Health assessors and the PIP assessment guides (Parts 1, 2, and 3 on HCP performance), it’s clear that the DWP has significant control over how assessments are conducted. The role of the so-called “Disability Analyst” (as described around page 16 of the WCA handbook) is dictated more by DWP policy than Evidence-based clinical judgment. The PIP assessor recruitment process alone is a five-stage system (detailed on page 132 of the PIP guide), highlighting how assessors are trained and conditioned to prioritise DWP policy over evidence-based practice. As a healthcare professional, I find it deeply concerning that our professional autonomy is compromised in such a way. I’ve had former colleagues attempt this role, only to leave because it clashed with their ethical and moral standards. I’ve personally steered clear of it for the same reason and the lack of inclusivity when I discussed the role with Capita.
Moving on, With the green paper consultation now live, we are seeing plans to abolish the WCA from 2028, while simultaneously reviewing the PIP assessment process. Scope is running a live discussion/debate on this, and while I don’t have high hopes for genuine reform, at least we have a platform to share our experiences and push for change. I’ve engaged with Question 3 of the consultation, highlighting the real-life challenges claimants face, and I’d encourage others to do the same. It may be a small window of opportunity, but it’s a chance to make our voices heard.
I truly respect your views, and I’m deeply sorry to hear about your NMC revalidation. It’s an incredibly difficult reality to face after years of dedication to your profession. But please know that your knowledge, experience, and impact are not erased just because your registration lapses. As someone in a similar position-an AHP with 25 years in the field, 20 of them in the NHS, I too am on the edge of uncertainty regarding my HCPC renewal in April 2026. For now, I take each day as it comes. If my disabilities miraculously disappeared, I’d return to my profession in a heartbeat. But instead, I find myself fighting a non-inclusive and discriminatory system that reduces us to mere case numbers rather than recognising our lifelong contributions.
Despite all this, we remain strong. We may be hidden behind the Scope and Disability rights curtain, but our voices matter. We’ll keep pushing for change-not just for ourselves, but for all disabled claimants who face these systemic injustices.Have a nice day
Best wishes,0
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