Where do I even begin?

Ross1975

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/1011784#Comment_1011784

Sorry anisty, I took your post the wrong way and got defensive.

I also can't take public transport due to anxiety, and I don't know anyone who can give me a lift.

anisty

No need to apologise at all. I am a total layperson on anxiety so hopefully someone else who has a pip award for an anxiety-based condition will come along and be able to help a bit more.

chiarieds

Hi @Ross1975 - first the online PIP test in itself is fine, but it's very easy to either overscore or underscore yourself so therefore not recommended.

About 50% of PIP claims are successful with no medical evidence whatsoever. It should be remembered that any diagnoses a person has will not be in dispute & PIP is looking at a person's functional ability considering how they are affected the majority of the time. PIP is also about the help you need even if you don't get that help.

The Benefits & Works site is helpful, but there's also much info freely available online without the need to pay for any membership. So, please see the assessor's guide which is worth looking at re: the 'planning & following a journey' section 2.4, so long as it's remembered that this is just a 'guide,' tho section 2.2 on 'Reliability' is very important for all the PIP descriptors as this is part of the Social Security Regulations about PIP: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/personal-independence-payment-assessment-guide-for-assessment-providers/pip-assessment-guide-part-2-the-assessment-criteria#mobility-activities

This site may also be helpful: https://www.mentalhealthandmoneyadvice.org/en/welfare-benefits/pip-mental-health-guide/help-with-your-pip-claim/how-to-fill-in-the-pip-form/

The ability to drive does not illustrate whether you'd have difficulty, or not, with attempting/doing an unfamiliar journey & it's just the DWP's PIP assessment guide that mentions public transport, tho you may therefore be asked if you could manage an unfamiliar journey using this.

Overall, as with addressing any applicable PIP descriptor/activity, the most important thing is your own anecdotal evidence, so try & give a couple of recent, detailed examples with your PIP claim form as to any difficulty you face, i.e. when did it happen, where, what exactly happened, did anyone see this, & were there any consequences to attempting/doing an activity?

anisty

Thanks so much for putting me right on everything @chiarieds!

I had no idea 50% were successful with only anecdotal evidence - how can they tell if someone's telling the truth or not? (NOT suggesting our OP is not) Surely you have to provide something official to maximise chances of a successful award?

You say the diagnoses won't be in dispute - do you mean they just take the claimant's word for it that they suffer from a condition?

So - someone could self-diagnose with autism from a few online questions and that would stand as an official diagnosis with DWP. I must say I don't think that's very good at all!!

And - can you clear up my descriptor confusion - can you be awarded on unfamiliar journeys if you have never attempted an unfamiliar journey and stay within your comfortable zone?

I get that out OP is not venturing into the unfamiliar zones as he is anxious to do that but - can fear of OPD be considered evidence that you have OPD?

I still stand by B&W being well worth the price for anyone that can afford it. But it isn't the only source of help.

anisty

@Ross1975 Turns out it's my turn to apologise to you!

Chiarieds is far more knowlegable about disabilities and pip than i am so please just go with her advice and ignore mine.

I will delete what i can so as not to confuse you🙂

chiarieds

Hi @anisty - please don't think for a moment that I was 'putting you right.' I fully appreciated that you were, as ever, being helpful, & were just giving the OP different scenarios as illustration.

As mentioned, B & W is a good site, but some people may not be able to afford membership, so mentioned in case other members later read this post that there is also info freely available online.

You could have any number of people in the same room (I speak as a long-retired physio) with the same disorder, & they'd all be affected differently, so this shows that a diagnosis in itself doesn't matter as PIP is about your functional ability to 'reliably' do an activity, & why each claimants difficulties may likely be different (& why their very individual anecdotal evidence 'outweighs' any medical evidence).

Some claimants will not have a diagnosis, tho they may experience difficulty with the daily living activities that are looked at with PIP &/mobility problems. Should they be excluded from applying?

Your GP/consultant rarely knows about any difficulty you have with many activities that are looked at with PIP (eating, bathing, going to the bathroom, budgeting, difficulty with an unfamiliar journey) unless you've told them, so then it's hearsay. The onus is on the claimant to illustrate their difficulties, as, tho it can happen as you've found, your GP/specialist is rarely contacted, so that can't be relied upon.

Claimants often feel that their medical evidence is what made their claim successful, but, altho assessed by Healthcare Professionals, including some physios(!), who will use their understanding about many disorders as to the likely impact these have upon a claimant, they won't know about 'all' disorders any more than some Drs.

Lastly (in my defence!), this forum had the benefit of a Welfare Rights Officer for some years whom I've had the privilege of getting to know a little, & who represented thousands of benefits claimants with their tribunals, & from whom I learnt that detailed anecdotal evidence outweighs medical evidence in 'most' cases.

With the 'planning & following a journey' activity, only descriptors b & e relate to 'overwhelming psychological distress/OPD,' but, as you intimated, descriptor d may apply (& the others do not from what the Original Poster/OP has said); it's then up to the OP & their 'anecdotal evidence' as to exactly why they can't reliably undertake an unfamiliar journey/what went wrong when they attempted one/what the consequences were, etc.

anisty

Thanks for that @chiarieds - yes I remembered you were a physio from our previous chats and I also remember very well the welfare rights officer from the forum!

Totally get what you're saying and agree about anecdotal evidence being more useful to the assessors than the name of a medical condition.

What i thought happened was that the claimant listed the name of their condition and supplied relevant reports if they had them, or the name of a health care professional/support worker who DWP could call up and get a good picture of what difficulties the claimant has.

And then i thought the DM tied all the evidence together and made the decision (also of course with the f2f assessment)

I had no idea that as many as 50% of claims were based on anecdotal evidence alone and still can't get my head round that one.

Though i did know you don't need a diagnosis to qualify for pip. I suppose a good example of someone who, in different circs, might qualify for pip but has no diagnosis is my eldest daughter.

She was floored by Covid back in 2021 and has been left with a few health issues. So, i doubt she'd have any reports in her own possession but, if she requested her GP notes, her numerous visits and hospital admissions post 2021 would be all there. And those, together with her own anecdotes might make a strong case.

I find it hard to imagine she'd have any case had she never visited her GP and the pip assessor had to rely only on her word because she looks and sounds totally unaffected (on a good day lol)

In the case of our OP, he has already been turned down once as the assessor didn't believe him so i was just thinking of steps i would take in his position to make certain of success next time.

But - you were totally right to jump in there as misleading info is not going to help his case.

Anyway, i'm going to keep out of this one and leave it to those who actually know what they're talking about🤣

Ross1975

https://forum.scope.org.uk/discussion/comment/1011847#Comment_1011847

It's fine honestly, you don't have to apologise. ☺️

chiarieds

Totally agree @Ross1975 - anisty is a most kind & helpful person always. I hope all of us may have in some way helped you.

Personally speaking, when I first applied for PIP in 2017 (& before I joined this forum), I gave no evidence as to my hereditary disorder whatsoever, & at my 2nd assessment a couple of weeks later (that's another story) didn't even mention another disorder that can be associated with this, just how it affected me.

I hadn't seen a specialist for many years, & had only seen my current GP a couple of times, so had no medical input. I had thought an association between these 2 disorders likely through my own research of the medical literature &, by a bit of serendipity, a New York neurosurgeon had begun to find both disorders in some of his patients, so we kept in touch. At the time I could prove none of this; still difficult, as more is understood in the USA rather than here in the UK. None of this therefore helped me.

I think so long as your anecdotal evidence is logically plausible there should be no problem. As anisty says, you list your disorders, have an assessment with a Healthcare Professional, then a Decision Maker looks at everything. If a claimants initial claim form doesn't give much info/is of poor quality, & if their assessment doesn't then add much to it, a Decision Maker hasn't got much to go on so may then solely rely upon any medical input you 'may' have supplied. Perhaps better to provide that detailed anecdotal evidence that illustrates your own individual problems in the first place.

Unfortuately PIP assessments are a 'tick box' exercise in fitting a descriptor; I so wish assessors could rather give an unbiased opinion instead, but we have to go with how it is, & help if we can.

As the Wefare Rights Officer I mentioned said, if it comes to a tribunal, all they have to then decide upon is, on the balance of probability, are you likely as affected as you've said.

Wishing you all the best.