Green Paper and Benefits Reform Updates
Comments
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If anyone on here is on X go on to Dr Jay Watts @Shrink_at_Large page and view this which was posted on her page.
Dr Jay Watts
TW "Peace of mind will...be given to 200,000 individuals in the Severe Conditions Criteria group... as they will not be called for reassessed for Universal Credit (UC) under new legislation."Right, this is the hill I will die on. These criteria rule out nearly all with MH.
Department for Work and PensionsThe Severe Conditions Criteria does include those with mental health conditions - where it is applied claimants will receive the higher rate of LCWRA and not face reassessment(1/2)
DR JAY WATTS
Technically yes, de facto no. You keep mental illness in the criteria but ALL MH conditions are treated as fluctuating and episodic so we’re excluded by the ‘constantly’ requirement. Ditto ‘no chance of recovery’ - MH profs literally trained in the recovery model however severe.
Department for Work and PensionsAlso - all existing claimants of LCWRA, including those with mental health conditions - will continue to get the same amount until 2029/30
DR JAY WATTS
It is not the same amount as it is not rising with inflation so it is less each year.
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Do they think adding 13 week payment we are all going to be OK after that. What planet are they on. See kendell grinning about it.shes pushing ahead before the review
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Thank you so much for sharing the article about Dr Jay watts.
She is indeed a very kind and compassionate human.
These politicians need to see her work.
I even joined X to see more!
Thanks again!
Yogibear
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Hi everyone,
Just a reminder that this discussion is for posting confirmed updates about the upcoming reforms. Please try to keep speculation to a minimum if you can. While AI services can be really useful tools, they are not always accurate sources of information, so please try to avoid using these. This discussion is intended to provide only accurate and verifiable information where possible.
There are a lot of emotions involved in this topic and it's a really worrying time so I know it's difficult not to get caught up in discussion of various details. That's why we have our Green Paper Related Discussions post. You are also always welcome to create a new discussion if any particular part of the reforms is worrying or confusing you.
Please also note that this discussion isn't intended to be an overspill of the Green Paper Related Discussions post if it is paused or under review. We have removed several comments relating to a disagreement carried over when the Green Paper Related Discussions post was paused.
We have split off some discussions that involved speculation about the bill being a money bill and a number of posts discussing ESA and insurance. You can still chat about these things in their new discussions.
Thank you for all your contributions so far. Even things that we have split off have been some really valuable discussions, we just want to keep things neat and tidy over here where possible so people can find information easily.
I hope that's clear ☺️ if you have any problems or questions please do drop a message to @Community_Scope
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thanks for the reminder
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I'm waiting for the government to try to prevent Disabled OAP's from claiming their entitlement to state pension - on grounds that we are instead getting PIP !
Trying a "YOU CAN'T CLAIM BOTH"
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The Pathways to Work Green Paper was updated on 18 June. I don't know what as yet has been 'updated,' but at the moment this is said about PIP assessments:
'159. Therefore, we will launch a process to review the PIP assessment. This is a major undertaking which will take time and require extensive engagement, so any changes to the PIP assessment would only be introduced following the reforms set out in this Green Paper. To make sure we get this right, we will bring together a range of experts, stakeholders and people with lived experience to consider how best to do this and to start the process as part of preparing for a review. It will also provide an opportunity to consider how to extend the goals and approach set out as a result of this Green Paper through any future change to the PIP assessment. In particular, the ambition is to shape a system of active support that helps people manage and adapt to their long-term condition and disability in ways that expand their functioning and improve their independence.'
Yesterday I read somewhere that Sir Stephen Timms was issuing guidance to health care professionals that do the assessments. I found a verifiable link today: https://questions-statements.parliament.uk/written-questions/detail/2025-06-10/58826
in which Stephen Timms said,
'As of September 2024, the Department for Work and Pensions (DWP) took over responsibility for the Core Training and Guidance Material (CTGM) used within the Health Assessment Advisory Service (HAAS). This material is provided by DWP to HAAS assessment suppliers, who are required to incorporate all relevant CTGM content related to specific conditions and assessment policies into their final training products.
DWP has provided suppliers with specific CTGM on rheumatoid arthritis, alongside a broader suite of training materials covering a range of long-term, fluctuating health conditions. These contain clinical and functional information relevant to the condition and is quality assured to ensure its accuracy from both a clinical and policy perspective.'
Perhaps I'm the only one that had missed this about HAAS, which was reported on 7 Sept 2024
I'm just wondering about how much it seems has already been planned, & will 'future change to the PIP assessment,' as mentioned in the Green Paper, actually therefore be consulted upon when I then also read the following? It's for 'healthcare professionals who complete medical (factual) reports for the DWP or one of their Assessment Providers' which 'gives advice on how patients can be supported through the sharing of information.'
Updated 23 Dec 2024:
This is about PIP, UC/ESA; please read together with Appendix A, & Appendix B.
This is putting the emphasis on clinical facts or the results of investigations. Where a PIP assessment is currently about a claimant's functional ability to 'reliably' complete an applicable descriptor, it looks to me that clinical findings, test results, etc are now perhaps being considered more. There's only one thing missing from this, as it's only mentioned briefly, & that's the patient/claimant themselves.
I don't know how many Drs are conversant with the PIP descriptors, & just a few words about each of the activities looked at with PIP must surely leave many none the wiser. So, how can they report on their patient's ability to 'reliably' (a word that isn't mentioned) complete these descriptors?
I also wonder how many MPs know about the above guidance? Is the DWP moving away from looking at a claimant's functional ability & making it more of a medical assessment? After all if Timms is giving guidance material on different conditions to HAAS….
We know that all claimants with any health condition will vary with their functional ability, so surely this guidance can only be a generalisation anyway?
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That's probably why timms keeps going on in mps written answers on the parliament website about how assessment are done by trained and qualified medical professionals, he thinks he's fixed the problem! From what I've seen on Reddit he really hasn't
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So if they vote on 3rd July does this mean it will definitely happen in November 2026?
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Thank you YogiBear for the above post explaining the process of these proposals.
I am really starting to accept that big changes are on the way. So so unfair – it's not about helping people, it's about saving money.
I fully understand that times change and so will policy, but if you claim disability and you are protected by the disability act, then you are disabled; nothing changes. Who are they to say what levels of disability deserves help? They are not trained in medical conditions; they are MPs, many with unrelated medical working backgrounds. We are all going to have our own personal battles with these changes if made law. I can only pray and hope that everyone can get through this; it is awful.2 -
About four years ago I developed anorexia and it turns out it was partly due to a fear of being dismissed as faking my mental illness (wonder what government body gave me that thought) after a lot of intensive therapy I recovered by I'd be lying if I wasn't seriously thinking about letting that eating disorder back in. Ok lying a bit because I think I already did
I keep telling myself recovery was a mistake which logically I know is a really dark thing to think
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Agree.
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It be interesting to see if the questions for pip will remain the same. Also they say some will never need another pip review. Will they list these conditions..
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The user and all related content has been deleted.0
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We've won
The government has backed down...
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To me, it feels less like they've backed down and more like they've just kicked the can down the road for a few years.
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We haven't won.
Even us existing claimants will still be reassessed.
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I agree.
This is not clear or satisfactory.
The battle is far from over.
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Yep. This.
If not this term then the next, whoever is in Government.
I'm totally against the proposed changes and targeting the vulnerable in society, but the pragmatist in me does realise that something has to be done about the spiraling costs.
What I don't know … above my pay grade.
I've chuckled to myself through all of this. When I first got injured I couldn't get any benefits, turned down for PIP twice. Once I'd exhausted my savings and insurance payout over nearly 3 years: before being able to claim IR ESA (before New Style) I was awarded PIP straight away … enhanced on both with the same conditions, evidence. And sailed through reviews. Doesn't make sense.
One thing I will say, the last 2 assessors I've seen and the one Decision Maker I've spoken to for a paper based since starting to get PIP … very human, very empathetic
It's the MP's out of touch … some of them anyways
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Dynamic Duo Uk have released a new video. The comments are disappointing to say the least. Existing claimants are on there celebrating, but are not thinking about new claimants. Whilst we'll be protected, for new claimants, this will be brutal!
The fight is far from over!
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