Unemployment Insurance Benefit
Comments
-
one of the legal challenges would be the withdrawal agreement
If someone from the uk on receipt of ESACB moves to the EU, they are entitled to receive the benefit for five years.
Likewise, if a British national from Germany moves to the UK the German government must pay any disability or sickness for five years a s per the withdrawal agreement.
So if this new unemployment insurance overrides that agreement then I’m guessing that it could face legal challenges. Especially if you are a EU member in the UK planning on moving back to the EU.
There are other reasons I just can’t remember them now
1 -
That's interesting to know @alexroda. I was also just looking through the Green Paper and saw this
54. Alongside levelling up the rate, this change would end the indefinite entitlement to contributory ESA for those assessed as having limited capability for work-related activity (for new people claiming). Those unemployed after the time-limited period would be able to claim UC, depending on their personal circumstances. We believe this reform would align with the removal of the WCA, by offering a route to financial support for those with temporary and short-term health conditions, including for those who may not be entitled to PIP and therefore not entitled to the health element of UC.
I'm wondering if this new Employment Insurance Benefit will affect existing claimants who are on ESA. I suppose we'll find out soon enough.
0 -
This is going to get interesting. None of this has been thought through.
0 -
this article is interesting, see point 4 where it goes a little be in depth of the new unemployment insurance which was proposed in the green paper. Seems to say that it will affect only new claimants:
https://lurgeelife.wordpress.com/2025/08/17/the-5-remaining-pathways-to-work-proposals-the-2025-autumn-white-paper-whats-the-likely-impact/1 -
That Green Paper excerpt refers to new ESA claims only, existing claimants aren’t affected at this stage.
The proposed Employment Insurance Benefit would replace contributory ESA for new applicants, particularly those with short term health conditions. For those already receiving ESA, any changes would likely be phased in gradually, with further scrutiny during the parliamentary process.
The proposal still needs to pass through Parliament, and there may be significant objections during debate. So while it’s worth keeping an eye on, nothing is changing immediately for current ESA recipients.
2 -
The Withdrawal Agreement does help protect access to benefits between the UK and EU, but only for those that were in place at the end of the transition period (31 December 2020). It safeguards rights that were already accrued by that date, not future entitlements.
It doesn’t prevent the UK or any EU country from lawfully changing or removing benefits after that point. If a benefit is later withdrawn from national law, it’s no longer covered by the Agreement and can’t be exported.
So while the Agreement offers important protections, it doesn’t override domestic reforms made after 2020. All signatory countries are bound by the same terms.
1 -
I think this doesn’t apply to a contributory benefit as ESACB
All countries have a five year rule for contributory benefits except pension which is for life
1 -
the export ability of certain benefits doesn’t apply to just eu countries. If a uk citizen wishes to export his benefits to other countries in the world, like Jamaica. They can, and they will have those benefits paid for 5 years, including PIP living allowance
best thing is to wait and see what they come up with on the 27th November. With Liebour anything can happen1 -
Thanks, Alexroda. I just wanted to clarify a couple of points. Your earlier post mentioned the Withdrawal Agreement, which only applies to the UK and EU, not Jamaica.
The UK does have a separate social security agreement with Jamaica, but that is a different arrangement and does not offer the same protections as the Withdrawal Agreement. Wherever someone lives abroad, if a benefit is removed from UK law, it cannot be paid abroad. The benefit has to still exist in UK law for it to be exported.
PIP can only be paid abroad for short periods, usually up to 13 weeks if you are on holiday or up to 26 weeks if you are receiving medical treatment overseas. It also needs to be approved by the DWP before you travel. The absence has to be temporary and you need to intend to return to the UK, so there is no automatic five year entitlement to receive PIP while living overseas.
As for the Budget on 26 November, it might touch on overall welfare savings, but welfare changes usually come through separate announcements like white papers, consultations or new legislation. The government has already confirmed plans to replace ESA and JSA with a time limited Unemployment Insurance benefit in its consultation response on 30 October.
That said, both you and Rachel feel there could be a significant welfare announcement in the upcoming Budget, which would be quite unprecedented. I have looked through Hansard and have not found any formal confirmation of this. If you do come across anything that supports it, especially a link or source, I would really appreciate it if you could share it. I would be keen to read it.
2 -
will do
You are wrong regarding pup, you can export the standard living allowance of pip to any eu country with which the uk has agreement with.
1 -
I think we may be talking at cross purposes. I was referring to the current export rules for PIP under UK law, particularly in relation to Jamaica. People living in the EU can continue receiving the daily living component of PIP if they were lawfully resident there before 31 December 2020 and are covered by the Withdrawal Agreement. They also need to maintain a genuine link to the UK social security system and meet the usual eligibility criteria.
0 -
so do uk nationals
This is not exclusive to eu nationals
Any uk nationals or eu nationals in the uk right now that wants to go and live in a eu state and can. They can export pip disability standard living allowance for 5 years as well as pension or CBEsa amongst other benefits
1 -
Just to clarify, the Withdrawal Agreement only protects UK nationals who were already living in an EU country before 31 December 2020. If a UK national moves abroad after that date, they are not covered by the Agreement, as they were not residing in the EU at the time.
State Pension is different, you can claim it wherever you live, regardless of when you moved. However, in some countries it remains frozen at the rate first paid, because there is no reciprocal agreement for uprating. For example, my friend in New Zealand will always receive the same amount she was entitled to when she reached State Pension age, even though the pension increases annually in the UK. By contrast, the UK continues to uprate State Pensions for people living in the EU, EEA and Switzerland, even if they moved after 31 December 2020, thanks to the UK EU Trade and Cooperation Agreement.
Regardless of any international agreements, any changes to UK benefit rules or regulations apply to all claimants, wherever they live. International agreements may help coordinate payments or uprating, but they do not override UK law when it comes to how benefits are defined, awarded or changed.
1 -
I wonder how it will affect existing ESA (CB) and in the support group coming down the line? I suppose we'll just have to wait and see the outcome of all of this.
0 -
Since the beginning of the year when all this started, I have read through all the government published information on welfare reform, including the Spring Statement, the Pathways to Work Green Paper, and the wider announcements about disability and health related benefits. So far, there is no specific mention of contribution based ESA or the support group.
The focus has been on broader reform, particularly around PIP, Universal Credit, and the Work Capability Assessment, but CB ESA has not been singled out. So, unless and until something is formally announced, things stay as they are.
For now, existing CB ESA support group claimants are not directly affected by anything published. Have you thought about contacting your MP and asking them to find out on your behalf?
1 -
Many thanks for replying. I will be contacting my MP. I don't trust this government one bit.
0 -
You’re not alone in not trusting the government. The FTSE’s been having trust issues too, and it’s not the only one. Rachel Reeves opened her mouth yesterday and billions vanished from the stock market.
Honestly, they haven’t got a clue. If this is fiscal stability, I’d hate to see fiscal turbulence. It would be funny if there weren’t so much at stake. And when things go wrong, it’s always the least well off who feel it first.
2 -
I agree with everything that you've just said.
0 -
and you should not, this is the latest I found from an ifs report:
To the extent that current NS ESA claimants are given transitional protections, these figures could be interpreted as the long-run fiscal effects after transitional protections are exhausted. For example, if the government introduced a UI benefit lasting 12 months and effectively ‘reset the clock’ on current NS ESA claimants, allowing them to claim for up to another 12 months (as discussed in Section 8.5), then the savings from the reform would only materialise one year after its introduction. In the first year of the reform, the policy would result in a net cost of roughly £1.5 billion. If the reforms only applied to new claimants, with all existing claimants unaffected, the savings would take much longer to materialise, and the policy is unlikely to generate substantial fiscal savings over the remainder of the parliament.
https://ifs.org.uk/publications/options-unemployment-insurance
very long but well worth a readI’m starting now, the aim of it for what I read is clear, omit key information regarding how other eu countries treat their long term disabled, in other eu countries if you become long term disabled and because of illness you lose your job and are found that can’t do that job anymore the state pays you an ill health pension for life, starting from about 600-700 € up to, €2000-3000 a month, depending on the severity. That pension can be withdrawn should you recover.
So far I have not seen any mention of it in this report.
1 -
Hi alexroda,
I claim a very small stipend from a PPP, along with NS-ESA.
The terms in my PPP take into account my overall income and state that my PPP will not be reduced if I claim Incapacity benefit.
Which is part of the value proposition of the policy, leading me to believe I can claim Incapacity benefit, (replaced by NS-ESA) simultaneously with my PPP.
The terms in my PPP make a distinction between means tested and non means tested benefits. Informing me that my overall income would be affected if I were to claim UC instead of incapacity benefit.
(They marketed the benefit of being able to claim non means tested Incapacity Benefit, simultaneously with the PPP)
The policy clearly states it will pay out up to 50%, of your final 12 months earnings.
Acknowledging fluctuations of the amount you might receive from the PPP. In other words, you might get much less than 50%. (Which can very easily occur when you get serious illness, or for other reasons. These PPPs were marketed to self employed people, for instance whose income fluctuates drastically)
Leading people to believe that they can combine PPP with NS-ESA.
I would argue that the the removal of NS ESA and its replacement with a means-tested benefits undermines the value of the policy and it is a risk that the insurer should reasonably have foreseen.
I have not got a legal opinion on this yet. I havent done anything about it.
(Ive come to the conclusion over the course of my lifetime, that what we call government are quite literally a group of criminals and gangsters, who are deluded to a degree where they believe themselves to have some moral authority. It became obvious under Blair and what the Bankers got away with)
Are they still planning on cancelling CB NS-ESA?
I did contact a lady called Linda Burnhip at DPAC, who responded, telling me,
briefly, that DPAC had spoken to a barrister, who thought that scrapping CB ESA would be something they may be able to challenge, (but that this could only happen when the green paper is final and the white paper comes out, if they could find someone who would lose CB ESA and who qualifies for legal aid)
I asked her why the barrister believed it would be something that could possibly be challenged, and she told me that it was because we would probably be the only country in Europe that doesnt have a medical retirement scheme, for working people, who become ill and disabled and she compared it to private pension schemes for MPs which do include provisions for their medical retirement, and a lack of similiar provisions for disabled or ill workers could breach human rights obligations, and that other European countries provide medical retirement options, so removing CB ESA might stand out as uniquely harsh or regressive.
(At least that was the gist of my understanding)
But until plans are finalised they will not be sure what can and cannot be legally challenged.
Thats all I know.
(Are these the threads you are looking for?)
2
Categories
- All Categories
- 15.6K Start here and say hello!
- 7.4K Coffee lounge
- 103 Games den
- 1.7K People power
- 149 Announcements and information
- 24.6K Talk about life
- 6K Everyday life
- 462 Current affairs
- 2.5K Families and carers
- 886 Education and skills
- 1.9K Work
- 553 Money and bills
- 3.7K Housing and independent living
- 1.1K Transport and travel
- 630 Relationships
- 1.5K Mental health and wellbeing
- 2.5K Talk about your impairment
- 873 Rare, invisible, and undiagnosed conditions
- 934 Neurological impairments and pain
- 2.2K Cerebral Palsy Network
- 1.2K Autism and neurodiversity
- 40.8K Talk about your benefits
- 6.1K Employment and Support Allowance (ESA)
- 20K PIP, DLA, ADP and AA
- 8.9K Universal Credit (UC)
- 5.8K Benefits and income