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PIP assessment report and Decision makers conclusion

garynp11garynp11 Member Posts: 5 Listener
edited December 2017 in PIP, DLA and AA
hi all
can someone answer this question
ince an assessment has been carried out and the DWP decision maker has made their decision and scored you. Do you

A.  Get to see the Health practitioners report
and

B. Do we get to see how the decision makers has scored you from the claim and everything else

gary. Thank all

Replies

  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    edited January 2017
    You can ask the DWP for a copy of the assessor's report at any stage - you don't have to wait until the DWP have made a decision.  I phoned DWP the day after my assessment and received the report about 10 days later, with the DWP decision maker's letter arriving a few days after that.

    My DWP decision maker did not go into detail about how they had scored the points awarded me - they were somewhat vague and picked out quotes from the assessor's report, many of which were half-truths or downright lies.  Because of the discrepancies in both the assessor's report and the DWP's decision letter, I have a lot of scope for appeal.
  • nanof6nanof6 Member Posts: 200 Pioneering
    garynp,when i got the letter saying i got pip, the letter showed all my scores
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    My letter showed all the scores but no detailed explanation of how each of these had been arrived at.
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering
    Hi garynp11

    Matilda is right in saying you can request a copy of the assessment report at any stage. Following an assessment the DWP will send you a decision and this will inform you how many points you have scored and it will usually provide a basic summary of how they arrived at the decision; some are more detailed than others.

    If you disagree with the decision and decide to request a mandatory reconsideration which is when you ask the DWP to look again at the decision it is a good idea to request all of the information they have used in making the decision. The DWP should then send you a full copy of the assessment report and any other evidence they have used although sometimes you might have to remind them!

    Have you had a decision yet? Please post back on here if you have any further questions about this and we will do our best to advise you.

    Best wishes

    Paul
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • garynp11garynp11 Member Posts: 5 Listener
    Thank you all for your replies. Most helpful and much appreciated 
  • garynp11garynp11 Member Posts: 5 Listener
    Thank you Paul only just had assessment. Thank you for you help. Much appreciated 
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,316 Pioneering
    Hi, I would suggest you stay one step ahead by asking for the assessor's report now by ringing the DWP number on any of your letters from them. Then when you get the decision you can see how they relate to each other. My decision was word for word almost the same as the suggested descriptor scores and reasons given by the assessor. If you're happy with both, then no problem. But if you disagree you'll be able to go back to DWP with more understanding of what has gone wrong. Hope that helps.  
  • jackofjackof Member Posts: 2 Listener
    Hi.  I am new to this forum. I would just like to say hello to everyone one and hope to be able to help and receive support from you
  • kevin888kevin888 Member Posts: 53 Courageous
    My Mandatory Reconsideration was exactly the same as assessorsF2F. In the DWP guidelines for PIP assessments it states the Decision Maker may have NO medical qualifications!.............
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering
    Hi kevin888,

    The decision maker is the DWP processing officer who will almost certainly have no medical qualifications. They generally adopt the view of the healthcare professional who conducted the face to face assessment and replicate their recommendations for the scoring of each descriptor.

    Lee 
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • gerrys6gerrys6 Member Posts: 110 Courageous
    Does a dwp decision maker do the scoring for both pip and Esa assessments and make the decisions ? 
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    The decision is always made by the DWP. The DM is not medically trained so they rely heavily on the HCP report

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering
    gerrys6,

    As CR says, the DM generally (almost always) follows the HCP recommendations in their report. That is one of the big problems, as it means that often your own evidence doesn't get given much importance at the DWP decision making stage. 

    Just reminding everyone on this thread about the Parliamentary inquiry into PIP and ESA assessments - do give your view as we need MPs to understand how things work (or don't work!)

    Will
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • alisha22alisha22 Member Posts: 317 Pioneering
    Hi I'm a new member and wanted some advice. I had a f2f assessment with capita,  lovely lady till I asked for a copy of my report from the dwp. I scored 6 points overall and 90% was lies. I'm wondering willl the dwp go by her report or make their own decisions.
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    Hello alisha and welcome

    You do have a small window of opportunity to request a call back from the DM to discuss your concerns with the report.
    It is unusual for the DM not to agree with the HCP but you have nothing to lose by trying

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • alisha22alisha22 Member Posts: 317 Pioneering
    Thank you so much I will give it a try. Don't want things to go even worse but I can't believe the lies some of the report contradicts the assessor so I will keep the report safe if and when I may need to use it. Also do you think they would give me back my medical evevidence forms back.
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    You should only ever send copies of evidence but you can ask. I think you need to submit a subject access request but not certain.

    If you don't get the award you deserve and end up having to appeal then as part of the their case they will have to supply you with all the evidence used including your own

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • alisha22alisha22 Member Posts: 317 Pioneering
    I struggle to see my gp although she is lovely and writes support letters. I see my physio also but not sure if they would do a support letter for benefits. At the moment I just got the dreaded brown envelope which had the report, I'm still waiting for final decision from dwp also dreading that. I don't think dwp would award me unless a miracle happens, I'm sure they will go along with blaten lies from the health so called professional.
  • alisha22alisha22 Member Posts: 317 Pioneering
    Hello cockney rebel, also as  I have trouble walking as well as severe bladder and bowel problems, would I still have to attend the tribunal as I don't have anyone to go on my behalf and worried it  may go against me which is not helping both my mental and physical health.
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    Going to tribunal is a long way off yet. First try talking to the DM. Then when you have your decision letter you will need to ask for a reconsideration, only then can you go to tribunal. There is lots of info on this site about the process, so have a read and come back with your questions

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • alisha22alisha22 Member Posts: 317 Pioneering
    Awwww thank you so much for replying I feel so much better knowing lots of people out there in same boat. I will ring Dm first thing Monday. Thank you 
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering
    alisha22,

    As CR says, I wouldn't worry about a tribunal just yet. Wait to see what decision you get first. If it isn't right, the first step will be to ask for a mandatory reconsideration (MR). If you need to do that, then point out where the assessor was contradicted by her own report! As well as the other false statements. Any extra evidence you can send in from your physio and/or GP will also help.

    CR, thanks as ever for being around over the weekend when we are not!

    Will
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • Annabelle26Annabelle26 Member Posts: 103 Pioneering
    alisha22   I was miraculously cured when I went for my F2F with a Capita person as according to her report there was nothing wrong with me even though I was born disabled & have other physical & mental problems.  The report was complete rubbish. I scored 0 points. I actually complained to Capita because of what she had put in the report.  They are supposed to be investigating & I should hear soon.
    I am at the Mandatory Review stage with the DWP after submitting an appeal letter on 27th November.  I rang on 5th December to confirm receipt & was told I would receive a decision in next 10 days which I worked out should be sometime this week.
    I am thinking positive and hope to get good news this week.
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering
    Hello Alisha22

    We hope that you get some positive news when the decision letter arrives.  Keep us posted.

    Maria

    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering
    Hello Annabelle26

    Please post again when you get your decision.

    Maria

    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • alisha22alisha22 Member Posts: 317 Pioneering
    Hello all, thank you for all your good wishes. Rang Dm today and was told over the phone that I did not get pip, I expected it much that,  apparently I read the dm go by the assessors report which was all lies and she contradicted herself a lot. I'm waiting for the letter than obviously going down the MR route and see the outcome. I'm very angry because you put all your faith in so called professionals only to be violated and the lies that was put down. But will keep going.
  • Pippa_AlumniPippa_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 5,856 Disability Gamechanger
    I'm sorry to hear about your outcome, @alisha22. You may find Scope's information on appealing a DWP decision useful in preparing for your MR: if you have any further questions, do let us know and we'll do our best to advise.
  • alisha22alisha22 Member Posts: 317 Pioneering
    Thank you pippascope. I will look at all from preparing for an appeal to attending etc. I have both bowel and bladder problem and walking is a issue for me yet still want to attend so a bit confused as what to do. I'm worried about not attending and it not going in my favour.
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    @alisha22

    At tribunal your walking badly and maybe having to go out once or more to use the loo will count in your favour.  Though the frequency itself would not be enough - you would have to make the point in your appeal submission, and in answer to the panel's questions, that you have difficulty getting on and off the toilet.  Having to use a disabled toilet when out would be good evidence.  Have you got a radar key?

    People, including tribunal members, are influenced by what they can see - they can see that someone has walking difficulties if they walk badly going into the tribunal hearing room.

    Disability Rights site has a good guide to PIP including a draft diary.  If you haven't already submitted a 7-day diary, include one with your appeal submission.  List all the aids you use.
  • alisha22alisha22 Member Posts: 317 Pioneering
    Can anyone help as I see my physio for my knee and elbow, was wondering if the physio can write a support letter. I had heard that they don't get involved that way. If anyone has letters of support from health professionals would appreciate to hear.
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    Any one that knows you and the problems you have can write letters of support for you. Any health professional, family member or friend that wants to support you can write a testamonial

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • alisha22alisha22 Member Posts: 317 Pioneering
    Oh  ok my  gp is  usually good. I've only been with physio for over a month and next appointment in Jan 2018, just thought she may say no as not been with her long enough. 
  • alisha22alisha22 Member Posts: 317 Pioneering
    Hi was wondering if anyone who has not been diagnosed properly yet but see the physio regularly. See counsellors and have quite bad bladder and bowel problems which I've had appointments for and awaiting further tests et. Would this be enough to satisfy the dwp for my pip MR or the tribunal if it comes to that.
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering
    Hi alisha22, 

    There is no harm in asking any medical professionals that are involved in your care to write a supporting letter for you. The worst they can do is say no, and you may get a/some positive response(s). You don't necessarily have to give a proper diagnosis although it does help obviously. It's not the diagnosis that gets you the points it is the effects of your health conditions on your daily living and mobility that counts. Any supporting letter from a medical professional should be able to confirm your problems even if a diagnosis isn't yet forthcoming. With regards to your appeal, I cannot stress highly enough how much more of a better chance you will have of success if you do attend. Appeals where the appellant doesn't attend are difficult for the panel to allow unless you have provided overwhelming medical evidence. Good luck!

    Lee
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • alisha22alisha22 Member Posts: 317 Pioneering
    Thanks Lee, Iam  seeing my GP again next week and I'm sure she will do a support letter. I have a few forthcoming hospital appointments. I haven't got the decision letter only the the phone call I made and was told the bad news of  not being awarded pip. As soon as I get the letter I will ask for mandatory reconsideration. 

  • alisha22alisha22 Member Posts: 317 Pioneering
    Is it worthcomplaining to capita regarding that women who called herself a special nurse  (my foot was she) sorry but I'm so annoyed as she did not look at the medicines on table and kept typing away saying she will come back to my medication and illness. I don't see my family apart from my father for almost 18 years and I don't have contact with people as I have panic attacks, paranoid a lot and have psychotics due to mental health so I stay indoors unless my father and daughter accompany me to appointments etc
     The assessor put it love going out and see family and friends every day love to socialise. My dad and daughter make budget decisions, pay bills, get food shopping. Yet she said I'm going shopping later for food. I am outraged of the lies as she could see it am and was in pain. No exercises took place due to pain yet she put it did all she asked of me. It's criminal and I so want to see her to ask her why she lied, was she on commission.
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    It is always worth making a complaint about a bad assessor, even if it is just to vent your anger

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • alisha22alisha22 Member Posts: 317 Pioneering
    Thanks for that. I will ring capita and speak regarding the assessment and the assessor. Only hope the guys at the tribunal are more understanding.
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    When you get to tribunal they are an independant panel. They are only interested in how your functionality is affected by your condition. They should look at all the evidence without the bias of the DWP. The success rate at tribunal is around 65% but attendance is recommended in case they need to clarify any points with you
    They are not interested in persuing bad assessors

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • alisha22alisha22 Member Posts: 317 Pioneering
    Oh ok, when  I do go to the tribunal should I take the support letter from GP. Also if  my hospital  appointment don't come in time and have nothing to show apart from being referred by gp for counselling, urologist etc etc, will they be ok as I will explain my day to day functions.

  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    First you have to request the mandatory reconsideration, only then can you proceed to tribunal. You need to have a copy of the MR decision.

    Unfortunately Tribunal appeal is probably months away and you will have plenty of time to prepare your submission and submit any further evidence

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • alisha22alisha22 Member Posts: 317 Pioneering
    Oh dear ok. I haven't even got that dreaded decision letter yet. When I ask for mandatory do I ring or is it better to write to them. How likely is it for the md to change their minds.
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    Have you asked for a copy of the assesment report ?
    You have a month from the date of your decision letter to ask for an MR
    As with all things DWP ring and write so that you have a paper trail.
    The stronger you can make your case the better chance you have at MR but the statistics are not in your favour.

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • alisha22alisha22 Member Posts: 317 Pioneering
    I only  got the  assessors report and was told on phone the decision, but nothing on paper yet. I will wait for the letter than ring dwp as well as write my concerns aswell as difficulties in face on a day to day basis.
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering
    alisha22,

    The time limit of the month should run from the date you are given or sent the decision. You have a right to get it in writing so I hope it comes soon. Agreed with all the advice above. It's fine to ring the DWP but a good idea to say 'I'll follow this up in writing' just in case they later claim there is no record of the phone call... If it does end up being outside the month just explain why - we have case law now to say that they should still allow you to appeal if your MR request is late.

    We've been told recently that the DWP will scrap the target of not changing 80 per cent of their decisions, but until we get different statistics coming through we have to assume things are still as hard as ever...Once you get the MR notice, you may well have to appeal, but for now just provide whatever you can - any extra evidence you have will help, but don't worry if you don't have any.

    I'd also agree with CR that it is worth complaining to Capita. If you do go to tribunal, then as CR says, they won't be able to follow up the bad assessor. They can change the decision about your PIP, but can't do anything about the system itself. That requires bigger change which we hope to see one day if the government respond to the continued criticism of the assessments.

    Will
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • alisha22alisha22 Member Posts: 317 Pioneering
    Hello everyone, got my letter from dwp saying cannot offer pip at this point. Letter dated 11/12/2017 received today 18/12/2017 so not a lot of time to gather stuff and write to them for MR. I'm seeing my gp Thursday and will write letter then and get receipt from post office for proof.
  • kevin888kevin888 Member Posts: 53 Courageous
    Their letters always take a week then you have only 3 weeks to reply. Send everything back next day recorded delivery to be signed for, may cost a few £ but worth it.
    With the MR I went into more detail how things affect me and work with the descriptor values. In mine I said, I should have been awarded.... if you think you meet the 12 point answer say so. My MR letter was 8 pages I think! Send all the relevant info if you think it will help. Nothing to loose.
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering
    alisha22,

    As Kevin suggests, just send whatever you can. They have to look at the decision again if you ask them; the amount of detail you go into is up to you. If you can tell them what points you think you should have got and why, that can be useful. But because MRs are so rarely successful, don't worry too much - the main thing is to say that your difficulties have been underestimated and you should have got a higher award. Any evidence you can send will be useful.

    Will
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • alisha22alisha22 Member Posts: 317 Pioneering
    Thank you guy's so much as I worry a lot which tributes to my health more. I will be honest as I have been so far and will send evidence and support letters. Can I send the evidence later, I meant I will write to them but gathering evidence may take just a little longer.
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    When you ring and or write tell them that you will be sending further evidence and they should allow you a further 4 weeks

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • alisha22alisha22 Member Posts: 317 Pioneering
    Hi, thanks will do. They asked me about the assessor and I said what I felt, they too suggested making a complaint, but I just want to concentrate on the MR

  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    You can make the complaint at any time. So good idea to concentrate on MR first

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • alisha22alisha22 Member Posts: 317 Pioneering
    I believe chances dwp changing decision is very low but I think it's worth giving it a go. We got nothing to loose,  but I'm pretty sure I will be going down the tribunal route. In a way I hope it does if that makes any sense. 
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    The DWP have recently said that they are scrapping the 80% target for upholding MR's. All you can do is give it your best shot.
    I hope It does go well for you and as always please do ask any questions

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • alisha22alisha22 Member Posts: 317 Pioneering
    Thank you for the best wishes, I will let you know of the outcome

  • alisha22alisha22 Member Posts: 317 Pioneering
    Hello,  can anyone advise me on something I'm doing a Mr reconsideration and was wondering as mostly they don't charge their original decision is it worth gathering evidence, just write to them and save all my energy on gathering stuff for the tribunal. Please advise 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,736 Disability Gamechanger
    Around 20% of decisions allegedly get changed. In terms of how much effort you put into the MR it’s your call. Some people do indeed do a minimal MR to get to the appeal stage quicker but, at present, there’s a backlog on appeals for various reasons so there’s really no quick fix.
  • RosiesmumRosiesmum Member Posts: 76 Connected

    HI @Alisha22 my son's was changed at MR.I sent in GP letter stating difficulties with mobility and grip etc .Also sent a letter bullet pointed assessors scores and matched the description to medical evidence they already had as advised on here.So yes if you have further evidence it's worth a try.

    He still wasn't awarded the right points but at least he got enough for an award which may help you out while you're waiting if it has to go on to appeal.

    Best of luck to you


  • alisha22alisha22 Member Posts: 317 Pioneering
    Thank you rosiesmum, judging by your experience in feel a bit reassured, and will submit additional evidence and hope for the best. Xx
  • alisha22alisha22 Member Posts: 317 Pioneering
    For MR can you submit evidence later as my appointments are in jan/Feb 2018 and referrals and don't have time to delay as got first decision letter on the 11th December 2017 so need to hurry to get that back, if I wait for evidence it will be too late. My gp is back after Christmas break as is my physio etc. I hope they don't make decisions with out. I have a appointment letter for my  knees I could send a copy of that with a  summary of my daily functions and my father who also cares for me has written a support letter of what he helps me with. I know that may not be enough but I can't do anything til 2018 now.
  • alisha22alisha22 Member Posts: 317 Pioneering
    Will the dwp use my  original documents from when I first applied surley they still have them, for pip Mr 
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,316 Pioneering
    @alisha22 Yes they are supposed to review all your evidence for MR not just any new stuff you send. My claim was changed at MR using original evidence the assessor should have used in the beginning. Saying that no-one can say what they will actually use. If they used all evidence properly there would be more correct claims and less need for MR and Appeals. Hope yours is done properly at this stage..
  • alisha22alisha22 Member Posts: 317 Pioneering
    Thank you for your best wishes. I too hope they look properly at the evidence but people have said they usually go with the original decision set by the assessor, but will see. Hope they still have all my letters and not lost them or I'm I heard somewhere that the dwp only keep them for a short time.
  • alisha22alisha22 Member Posts: 317 Pioneering
    When I first applied for pip my father who cares for me sent my documents, he forgot to photocopy them and sent the originals, I rang dwp 2 days ago requesting for the originals to be sent back in was told once they scanned or something they are gone and he apologised for this. I find this a bit strange.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,736 Disability Gamechanger
    Original claim pack and all supporting evidence will be retained for MR. DWP dispose from 6 months and ratejt retain beyond 14. However, some documenta are scanned and archived e.g. the claim pack, thus never destroyed. 
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,316 Pioneering
    @alisha22 You could make a "Subject Access Request" for copies of all your paperwork including screen shots and archived stuff to be sent to you. This is useful if only to get extra copies you haven't paid for to use for reviews, Appeal, keep for yourself etc. You will get info. you wouldn't see any other way. You can ring ICO for advice how to do this or check out their website. This action is completely separate to your claim and won't affect it at all.   
  • alisha22alisha22 Member Posts: 317 Pioneering
    OK fantastic I will request my copies etc as that would help.
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,316 Pioneering
    @alisha22 I did this by emailing IAS to ask for a "Subject Access Request". They forwarded it to DWP but I think they supplied some data themselves. Then just under 40 days later, which I counted on the calendar, I was sent a big pile of paperwork from DWP which included everything connected to my PIP claim and DLA claim as well which was in 2010. Very easy to do and they have to comply by law. Good Luck with your MR. I do wish claimants were given more encouragement to succeed at MR rather than being told they have little chance which is bound to affect their morale and how much effort they make to achieve a turn around. I know there are statistics but they are less likely to change if they're quoted at every available opportunity. Just my opinion but I did get my mobility changed from standard to higher rate and if it had been up to the DM alone the Daily Living would have been raised too. That was after my MR. It was the poor/dishonest assessment report I had which was then backed up by 2 further HP's that made the DM keep my DL the same. Good Luck with your MR. Forget statistics, be determined even if the MR is kept the same your claim can be changed anytime in between MR and Appeal but you have to be proactive. Sitting back and accepting that nothing more can be done will not get you any more points. The more you get even if you still have to go to Appeal the less the Tribunal need to give to get you the award you are entited to.        
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    There is no point holding anything back for tribunal, you should send any evidence you can to make your strongest case. The only additional evidence for tribunal is if you cannot get it in time for MR. Often it is not the lack of evidence but the way it is read ( or not )

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • alisha22alisha22 Member Posts: 317 Pioneering
    Thank you all for the best wish. You have given me more confidence to carry on as I felt so drained and reading all the unsuccessful stories put me off, now listening to you guys gives me more strength. Thank you.
  • alisha22alisha22 Member Posts: 317 Pioneering
    If I email IAS, what do I put and what is the full email for IAS please.
  • alisha22alisha22 Member Posts: 317 Pioneering
    Is there a charge for subject access request. Sorry for the mad questions, I'm just new to all this lark.
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,316 Pioneering
    @alisha22 No there's no charge. I've had a look for an email address. You could try 
    [email protected]  That's the address I used but don't know if there's a new address. Let me know if it is recieved by them. You just say you wish to make a Subject Access Request for all your documents concerning your benefits. That's all.   
  • alisha22alisha22 Member Posts: 317 Pioneering
    Hiya sorry for silly questions but if my assessment was capita do I email them.
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,316 Pioneering
    @alisha22 Oh sorry I thought it was ATOS. Yes try sending it to: [email protected] 
  • alisha22alisha22 Member Posts: 317 Pioneering
    Thank you wildlife.
  • alisha22alisha22 Member Posts: 317 Pioneering
    Emailed capita requested my documents, just got a reply saying someone will contact me in two working days.
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,316 Pioneering
    @alisha22 That is probably a standard reply just to acknowledge they've got your email. Let's see what happens. I counted 40 days on my calendar and made a note because that's how long they've got to get everything together and send it to you. The 40 days is straight days not working days so easy to count. 
  • alisha22alisha22 Member Posts: 317 Pioneering
    Oh ok I will count also, so basically they contact you via email and send documents through the post then.
  • RosiesmumRosiesmum Member Posts: 76 Connected

    Hi @alisha22 I have sent mine off also but to IAS on the 22nd December (subject Access Request) but have yet to even get an acknowledgement so do keep us posted it'll be interesting to compare notes on how the two different firms treat the same request!

    My friend brought over her copy of the Disability Rights Handbook so that is my current  bedtime reading and I did send an email to the ministers at the DWP about standard of assessments in general so will update here if they just fob me off or actually send a reply,not holding my breath.


  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering
    alisha22,

    The DWP have recently said that they've dropped their target of refusing 80% of Mandatory Reconsideration (MR) requests, so as Mike says, there is no quick fix  - we don't really know yet, but it's possible MRs may start to be successful for claimants more often (I certainly hope so). My advice would to provide what you can at this stage. Explain what points you think you should have got, and why. If you know you won't get some medical evidence until later, it may still be worth getting your MR in within the month if you can. A quick MR turnaround means you can lodge your appeal and get into the queue! As Mike says, there is a big appeal backlog.

    Wildlife, Rosiesmum and others may be interested in this - I'm still not sure exactly what the court claim was for, but it seems the claimant here successfully showed that ATOS were responsible for the harm she suffered as her health deteriorated after the assessment process. If that's correct, that claimant is far from alone in experiencing a deterioration in those circumstances.

    Will
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • RosiesmumRosiesmum Member Posts: 76 Connected
    Thanks Will,yes I have seen that it's partly the reason I'm complaining for my son.If we hadn't had a plan B ,due to the issues caused by such a untruthful assessment,it could have cost him his job as well as his health.
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,316 Pioneering
    @Rosiesmum IAS complied with my Subject Access Request but didn't do it themselves. I had an initial email from what was then ATOS customer services saying they had forwarded the request to DWP as they are the Data Processor. If you don't get your documents after 40 days from your request you can contact ICO who will force IAS to comply under the Data Protection Act. @Will thanks for the news re: the court case. I did indeed suffer a big deterioration in my health ending up with a near breakdown (not quite sure how bad you have to be to say you've had one). I have had an enormous battle to come back from a very dark place but am getting there. This wasn't just caused by PIP but the system brought all my past traumas to the forefront of my mind. Far more consideration needs to be given when it is noted on health records that claimants have a history of severe mental health issues or of course a mental disability. I suppose proving the negative effect was a direct result of seeing my report is a different matter.  
  • RosiesmumRosiesmum Member Posts: 76 Connected

    @wildlife I just got a reply from ATOS saying they have passed the request over to their customer relations team as he can see a complaint has been made. Basically said to get in touch with the DWP as they are the ones holding the info but he'll pass it on to the man dealing with the complaint.

    Do  you think I should get my son to write to the DWP as well or do you reckon it will get passed on to them via ATOS..I'm a bit confused sorry!

    Hope you had a lovely Xmas XX

  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,316 Pioneering
    edited December 2017
    @Rosiesmum A Subject Access Request has nothing whatever to do with your complaint. It is a completely separate thing. If you worded it correctly using those 3 words then whoever has received your email is the one who's confused not you. If the email is one you can reply to make it clear what you're asking for and say it's nothing to do with the complaint. I've just found a form on the Gov.uk called: Request for Personal Information. This is to request it from DWP. The reason I suggest people send it to ATOS first is because I think they add any data they've got to the pack before sending it to DWP. But as they're messing about it might be better to use this form.  
  • RosiesmumRosiesmum Member Posts: 76 Connected

    Thanks @wildlife I actually used the template letter on the ICO site so they are probably just being awkward.I have the DWP request letter bookmarked just in case I needed it so I think I'll just send it to them as well so I cover all eventualities.

    The twenty days for the ATOS complaint is up on sunday,hoping they at least keep their word on the literature and provide me with the direct number and email of the case manager,in case I have any questions.


  • BrokenBroken Member Posts: 40 Courageous
    Hi, Regarding ESA (work capability?)  I have just spoken with a very nice man from DWP regarding getting a copy of my f2f assessment report. He called it a "Medical report" and has printed it off and put it in the post to me, stating that he was doing it there and then as I was on hold (I should receive this by Saturday/Monday). Apparently it is not yet with the DM and this could take 6-8 weeks. He said there was no "points" recorded on the report just a 7/10 for pain (which was my reply when asked by the nurse what my pain level was on that day). Had it been higher, I would have been bed bound. I also asked him if the nurse had her surname on this report and what her nursing qualification was. (At the assessment she told me she was not allowed to give out her surname).  He replied with her name and that she was a Registered Nurse but that was all the information he had. It would appear that the only contact number is the freephone one 0800 169 0310 as when I tried the number on my letters from them (ESA Basildon. Wolverhampton 0345 6088545) a recorded message stated that calls to this number are no longer available and to phone the 0800 one instead. 
    Hopefully this report will arrive and possibly give me some clue as to what the DM may decide. :-) I will keep you informed of progress in case anything can be of help to others. Thanks again for all your support and help. 

  • JonGarlingeJonGarlinge Member Posts: 10 Listener
    Other than the point system for PIP does the decision maker take into account any other information/evidence from the consultation report?. The reason I am asking for is I have received a copy of the report PA4, and there are some discrepancies in this report to the actual meeting. Things like I drive daily [I don't leave the house] my car is parked approx 15 meters away from the house, [it's actually park 4 steps from my door lest then 3ft and I was not asked this question] and other discrepancies. According to this report I get 10 points for cares element and 10 points for mobility but I believe my mobility should have been higher. 
    Can anyone help with this query?
    Read more at https://community.scope.org.uk/discussion/43019/pip-query#XipBbqS5WPScLQif.99
  • kah22kah22 Member Posts: 52 Courageous
    I live in Northern Ireland and.the Dept for Communities (DfC) are responsible for Benefits over here. They will not send out the HP report until they make a decision. I’m confused about what this assors report is, can someone explain

    We have received an award, the DM shows us the points for each descriptor, also he included a one page explanation of why he agreeded or disagreeded with various points.That I understand he is the Decision Maker and this is his views.

    Here is my problem, I’ve searched the letter but find no mention of a HP having carried out an assessment. For and I quote from the letter:

    How I made my decision

    I looked at all the information available to me, including:

    • the “How your disability affects you” form
    • the information provided by the letter from your psychiatrist
    • the information provided by the telephone advice from your psychiatrist

    This told  me the type of help and how much you need…

    It goes on to say that he used this information to basically make the award.  It did not say that they looked at my support lette. The letter was signed by the Manager

    When I read the quoted section above it appeared to me that the Decision Maker actually made the decision with NO INPUT from a HP.  Am I reading this correctly or is that a pretty standard type of reply?  I feel this could be important for in asking for a MR I could see it been very helpful if it went to review 

    Kevin

  • JonGarlingeJonGarlinge Member Posts: 10 Listener
    Not sure about the process in Ireland. Over here, I completed my application form, provided any evidence and a comprehensive cover letter and sent that in. I [we] then get an appointment to see an assessor who then goes through the whole application you filled out asking you questions essentially filling it out again but in their words, they also makes notes on a visual observation of you from when you arrive to leaving.
    The assessor then passes this report onto the decision maker who is supposed to look at these reports and make a decision based on all of this information.

    Prior to us getting a decision we can, and are allowed, to request a copy of the assessors report 'before" you get a decision, this way you can marry up the information from this with the final decision when it arrives. It also gives you the opportunity check for any inconsistencies with what you were asked/answered to what the assessor wrote down, which apparently seems to be the biggest complaint. 
  • kah22kah22 Member Posts: 52 Courageous
    Pretty much the same over here, except that the DfC will not send out the assessors report until the decision is made.  From what I’ve read that is against the rules but until someone tests then they carry on.

    My problem is this. Our assessment was paper based and I don’t know what a HP reports looks like and I’m wondering if the DfC has actually skipped the HP section of the assessment and the DfC Decision Maker made the decision himself.  My reason for this assumption is based on the quote below
    I looked at all the information available to me, including:
    • the “How your disability affects you” form
    • the information provided by the letter from your psychiatrist
    • the information provided by the telephone advice from your psychiatrist
    This told  me the type of help and how much you need
    Notice it said: I looked at the information As mentioned above there was about a page of explanation ie I agree with this, I disagree with that and he goes on to say that he used this information to basically make the award.  There was NO mention of a HP in the letter. Hopefully you understand what I’m saying.  If this is the case then it certainly gives room for a MR and it is probably against the regulations and definitely material for a tribunal

    i have of course asked for a copy of the assessors report which will confirm if I’m correct. I’ve also applied for a SAR but want to be forewarned 

    Kevin
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,736 Disability Gamechanger
    It doesn’t actually go against any rules at all. Nor is it necessarily material for a tribunal. The letter you get is largely computer generated with minimal user input. They’re often riddled with errors and omissions but in themselves those are not errors of law nor fact. It is also doubtful the HCP report will help your case. Most do not. You would better to focus solely on what points and why.
  • kel090kel090 Member Posts: 9 Listener
    Can you anyone tell me how how long it takes to get a decision after receiving the letter saying they have all havey information they need 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    kel090 said:
    Can you anyone tell me how how long it takes to get a decision after receiving the letter saying they have all havey information they need 
    There's no time scales to decisions, backlogs is just part of the reason a decision can be delayed. Ring and request a copy of the assessment report to be sent to you, this will give you some idea what the decision is likely to be because they mostly go with the report.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • alisha22alisha22 Member Posts: 317 Pioneering
    Has anyone had this, I had a letter this morning from the assessment people saying I don't need to attend an assessment for ESA so appointment which was for 30th March next Saturday is cancelled and not to attend. They did mention something about further medical evidence. Not sure whats going on.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    alisha22 said:
    Has anyone had this, I had a letter this morning from the assessment people saying I don't need to attend an assessment for ESA so appointment which was for 30th March next Saturday is cancelled and not to attend. They did mention something about further medical evidence. Not sure whats going on.
    Yup, this means they're doing a paper based assessment. You can't be found fit for work without an assessment but you can be placed into either of the groups. Ring DWP end of next week to request a copy of the assessment report, this will tell you what the decision is likely to be because they mostly go with the report.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • alisha22alisha22 Member Posts: 317 Pioneering
    Oh ok I will. I know pip is different but is it worth letting them know that this has happened. I will also ask pip if they got all eveidence because with esa I had this feeling not all eveidence was sent so I re faxed all eveidence again. Im hoping pip also do a paper Based assessment.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    You can certainly ring the assessment providers for the PIP yes but you're right they're completely different benefits with different criteria.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • alisha22alisha22 Member Posts: 317 Pioneering
    Ok thankyou poppy.
  • EnglishCapricornEnglishCapricorn Member Posts: 3 Listener
    Hi @EnglishCapricorn and welcome

    Have you recently had an ESA review ?
    Have you asked for a mandatory reconsideration ?

    Have you had a PIP review ?

    PIP and ESA are separate benefits and one should not impact on the other
    Hi CockneyRebel and thanks, for reply and other people's  replies. 

    I filled both ESA50 and PIP forms out in November last year (both very close to each other) and I was moved from the work related a activity group into the support group due to my DWP ESA50 form and the criteria in it, I presume?  I  was also told my work capaviry asssessment would be six months from the date of their decision: 22/12/19 

    I went to a face to face pip meeting three weeks ago with my daughter and I just recived the result letter. I scored zero points?? Very deceitful person person. :(

    Now I got a letter this morning saying I've been moved from the Support Group to the work related activity group? And and monies reduced also. I'm confused? 

    Thanks for any replies... 
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