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Dla

michelleRmichelleR Member Posts: 12 Connected
Hi, my son was awarded DLA up until his 21st birthday which was in May 95, I applied for PIP but never received a letter telling us of the date for his assessment. I then received a letter saying they had cancelled his application for PIP, I appealed and it went to a tribunal, I won the tribunal and they stated That his DLA had to be reinstated until the pip was sorted, I then received the statement of reason in the post,no notification they were applying for this and thought it was just common practice after a tribunal, I contacted pip who said that they had to appeal by the 21st of Feb and if they didn't I would receive the 10 months of outstanding payments on the 1st March, I have contacted PIP today who have now told me I need to contact DLA I have contacted them and they are saying they have until the 8th march to make a decision as the right dept didn't receive the statement of reason until the 30th Jan and they still have until the 8th march to appeal, coincidentally I received a new assessment appointment for the 8th March, I feel that they are holding out until I attend the assessment to see if pip is awarded, please help my son has been 10 months without any money and I am struggling to subsidice him as I have 3 other children to support 

Replies

  • AbnobaAbnoba Member Posts: 14 Listener
    All I can advise you is to make an official complaint to Atos, or the DWP regarding your PIP ordeal - when you call them tell them you want to lodge a complaint you could put it in writing too and send it to them outlining what's been going on.  If you haven't already done so get some support from CAB, or a similar organisation who can guide you re the issue. Best of luck
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering

    Hi Michelle,

    I think the fact that PIP have told you to call DLA here is what has confused matters.

    What you are waiting for here, is for PIP to decide whether or not they are appealing the First-Tier Tribunal decision to the Upper Tribunal. Until that decision has been made, DLA are not going to process the backpay, as if PIP do decide to appeal then no backpay will be due until the Upper Tribunal decision has been made.

    If the DWP had the Statement of Reasons on 30th Jan however, they do not have until 8th March to appeal, and would already need to show good cause why any appeal they make late, so if they drag their heels much longer their appeal may simply not be considered as it is too late.

    I think the fact that the new PIP assessment has been set for 8th March too, is a bit of a red herring - perhaps the people at the DWP you have spoken to do not realise this (presumably just the usual callcentre staff) and also for some reason think it might be in their interests to delay the application to the Upper Tribunal. However the two decisions relate to entirely different things - even if the PIP assessment is refused, that would not necessarily mean that it was correct for them to close the previous claim, in which case the backpay would still be due.

    In practical terms, requesting statement of reasons within a month, then taking another month to decide to appeal to the Upper is the usual timescale. If the DWP are taking longer than this, then you should issue a letter complaint - clearly mark the letter COMPLAINT. You haven't included all the decision dates above, but from what you have stated, it doesn't seem to me like the two month mark has been significantly overstepped at present? If it hasn't, then keep chasing, ask to speak to Managers/Decision Makers and just press them for a decision. Until PIP have made the decision, I do not think DLA will pay the backpay.

    Hope this helps.

    Kind regards,

    Mary

    Solicitor

    The Benefits Training Company

    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • michelleRmichelleR Member Posts: 12 Connected
    Thank you for your reply, I spoke to DLA again yesterday and was told my old dla claim was archived and it was a PIP matter not DLA, I then again spoke to PIP, the lady I spoke to was very helpful, she told me the only info she held on her system was all she knew and the decision should have been made by the 21st Feb, the reason the 8th March was mention is that it was passed to a case worker and they get 4 weeks to answer which would be the 8th march, she said she would get a case worker to ring me today, I asked if she could make a note and get them to ring me after 9.15 due to doing the school run and surprise surprise they rang at 9.05 and didn't try again I will be contacting them again tomorrow
  • michelleRmichelleR Member Posts: 12 Connected
    Had a long discussion with a case worker today, apparently my case was sent to their legal dept in leeds as they are stating that the judge is incorrect and they can not reinstate dla until the pip is decided, apparently the letter should have been sent to me in January which it was not, the letter the case worker has wasn't even signed so she has no idea who should have sent it, what they are saying is I should never have been told that they had until the 23rd Feb as they had appealed on the 14th Feb, again I have received nothing to state that they are appealing, again she apologised, she is now saying I should get a letter tomorrow explaining it all and that if my son's pip is not awarded on the 8th March I will be entitled to nothing not even the back dated payments, I don't understand how they think that someone who was diagnosed with Aspergers and ADHD at 2 and has been on medication since 5 and has trouble socialising, had trouble at school, can't hold down a job and always self harmed is suddenly going to hit their 21st Birthday and wake up "Normal" I am sure that my son would love that to happen but even he knows that's not possible 
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering
    Hello michelleR

    I am not clear about the timeline here and i think you may need some face to face or telephone advice. Can i suggest you contact the Scope helpline on 0808 800 3333 to find a local service.

    David
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • michelleRmichelleR Member Posts: 12 Connected
    Thank you David I have jacks assessment on Wednesday so would like some advice before then so will ring as soon as possible 
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering
    Hi Michelle,

    It sounds  as if the DWP  are now telling you that they have appealed to the upper tribunal. However, it is not entirely clear what the appeal is about – for example it is about DLA stopping? This is what I assume it is about.

     As you now have an assessment, it would appear that the PIP claim is going ahead and has still not been decided.  Ideally you need face-to-face advice to support you with the Upper Tribunal appeal. You could try your local citizens advice.

    Once you have a PIP decision, the DLA should be paid. DLA can be paid back to the date four weeks after the pay day that follows the PIP decision. That does depend on your son getting PIP after the assessment - PIP is a different benefit, but based on what you have said, your son should get points, for example, because he has problems with social engagement.

    The issue with the DLA appeal is likely to be whether you (on behalf of your son) claimed PIP in time - it sounds as if you did, and the problem may have been to do with the postal service? If the claim was made in time, and you can show this,  then the backdating of DLA should not be a problem. If you can get local specialist advice with the upper tribunal hearing that would be preferable. I hope this makes a bit more sense of things!

    You should have been told you had 28 days to apply for PIP, and then been sent another letter if you didn't make that date, informing you that DLA is suspended and giving you another 28 days to claim PIP. If the time limits are not met, DLA ends from the date it was first suspended.

    By the way, when you say May 95, has your son been getting DLA since then? I agree with David that if you speak to the helpline they will be able to clarify things for you, but I think you will still need to be signposted to a local service.

    Will
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • michelleRmichelleR Member Posts: 12 Connected
    My son's dla finished on the 25th May 2016, I applied for PIP 22/2/16, apparently they sent a letter for us to attend an assessment on the 24th April, I never received the letter, then I received a letter dated 4th May saying they were going no further with PIP as we didn't attend , I contacted them on the 9th May to ask them to reconsider as we never recieved the appointment, 25th May they said they would not reconsider so I appealed to the tribunal on the 15th August, my appeal was heard the 05/01/17, where the judge stated that DLA had to be reinstated until PIP decision was made, then 26/1/17 statement of reason was received in the post, I contacted the office they stated they had until the 23/2/17 to
    appeal if not I would receive the backdated pay by the 1st, the heard nothing contacted them again and was told that they had appealed against the decision because of regulation 13 (1)(a) that dla will terminate 14 days after the next dla payment date and that jack can't receive dla & pip, that letter was dated the 1/3/17 but should have been sent to me back in January but they did not send it in error, the letter isn't even signed by anyone just states office manager, jacks assessment is Wednesday but at the moment is refusing to go, quite difficult to force a 6ft 21 year old into the back of a car so I'm thinking of going on my own as I'm his appointee 
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering
    Hi michelleR,

    Reg 13(1)(a) (of the PIP (transitional provisions) regs) doesn't apply unless a negative decision is made on Jack's PIP, and that hasn't happened yet.  Of course Jack can't get DLA and PIP, no one is claiming that he can.

    If PIP is awarded, and it was claimed in time, then DLA should be reinstated back to four weeks after the next DLA pay day, as advised. It sounds as if there were problems maybe with DLA maladministration, or with the postal service - but you did everything you were supposed to do. 

    I'm really sorry but honestly, with the upper tribunal appeal you do need local specialist advice. Please try a CAB or, if you have one, a law centre or local welfare rights unit at your local authority (most don't have one any more, but it is worth checking). It's just not possible for us to help with upper tribunal cases remotely.

    I also think you should consider a complaint about how the DWP has handled this, especially the fact that they didn't tell you about the further appeal until now. 

    Will

    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering
    PS Michelle I fully understand the problems of getting Jack into a car if he doesn't want to go, but I'm concerned that him not going could very easily result in you getting a negative PIP decision - in which case you would have exactly the problem you don't want (DLA stopping 14 days after the pay day following the negative decision).

    If you are sure that he is not going to attend then I would strongly recommend telling the DWP and the assessing company in advance, explaining why. Perhaps you should be asking for a home visit? 

    Whilst the regulations mean that anything done by you as his appointee counts as if it was done by him, it's still unfortunately the case that the assessor may not fully appreciate why Jack isn't there - assessors have different backgrounds and may not understand his condition. I know asking for a home visit will mean things take even longer but I think if refusal to attend is part of his condition then it would be reasonable to ask for one.

    Will 

     
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • michelleRmichelleR Member Posts: 12 Connected
    Jack refused to go this morning, I have a fist hole through 2 doors and a broken window because of it, I went to the assessment to explain to them why jack was not with me, apparently they had recieced an email saying that assessments can not be made anymore without the person in question being there so they have said they can not arrange another appointment and have sent it back to PIP even if they suggest a home visit I doubt that I can keep a 6ft 21 year old prisoner in his own home while I wait in for them to visit, think I will just to wait for their response and see where I can go from here, jack has had no payments since May 2016 so another few months isn't going to make a lot of difference 
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering
    Hi michelleR,

    I would advise that you get in touch with PIP as soon as you can (you might have done this already) to give Jack's reasons for not being present. I strongly recommend you contact your MP too. I also think that if you are not offered an assessment which Jack can comply with, and they turn PIP down, you should think about preparing a complaint to the DWP and the assessment provider about their failure to offer Jack an assessment which is accessible to him under the Equality Act. Make sure you tell the DWP and the assessment provider as much as you can about his condition (I"m sure you already have) so that they have the information on which to base any adjustments they can make. 

    If PIP is turned down due to not attending/complying with the assessment, then you will need to request a mandatory reconsideration and then appeal. It's important to make sure the DWP are kept informed of the reasons Jack didn't attend, even if the assessment provider already know this. 

    Keep a record of all the correspondence too! I do think there are some cases where PIP should be awarded on the claim forms alone assuming there is medical evidence, but you may have to fight for this as it is very rare in practice.

    Will
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • michelleRmichelleR Member Posts: 12 Connected
    Thank you, I did contact them to tell them why and also said that a home visit probably would have the outcome of jack not coming out ignore his room or going out before they arrive, received my letter from the tribunal this morning saying that they have approved their appeal to the upper tier even though they were late in applying and had not informed me that is what they were doing once this is sorted I will be putting in a complaint about all of this as it had caused unnecessary stress to Jack and myself 
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering
    Thanks for keeping us informed Michelle. I'm sorry to hear the DWP are appealing to the upper tribunal as this makes things harder for you. It's important also to still keep the PIP claim 'alive', so let us know what happens next. 
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • michelleRmichelleR Member Posts: 12 Connected
    Well it's been a while since I updated on here, it's been a stressful journey and it still hasn't finished, on the morning of the appointment for Jack to be assessed he became agitated and became extremely violent, I have two holes in my internal doors now, I went to the appointment on my own, as I thought they refused to see me as Jack was not with me which I understand but I wanted them to see how stressed I was from the outburst we had trying to get him there, I rang pip the following day and explained exactly what had happened, they suggested sending someone round to see Jack, I explained to them that if they came round and managed to get jack out of his room that I was worried about him becoming aggressive so they said they will get back to me about what will happen next, I received a letter 3 weeks ago asking me for more medical proof of Jacks condition, they just don't listen when jack was 16 he was released from Camhs as he was classed as an adult and we have tried to get him registered but he refuses to attend appointments, they have all the medical information from when he was 5 and they know there is no cure so I'm just waiting for the brown envelope now to tell me he has been turned down and then ask them to reconsider and then take it to an appeal, it's only been a year since this all started im sure another few months isn't going to break me 
  • Sam_AlumniSam_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 7,729 Disability Gamechanger
    Oh Michelle this must all be so stressful for you. Did you manage to get in touch with your MP? Perhaps they could help?
    Scope
    Senior online community officer
  • michelleRmichelleR Member Posts: 12 Connected
    Don't think there is a lot he can do but to be honest I have been fighting for my son since he was 2 when my health visitor told me I was a silly mother and he was just immature for his age, at 4 he was diagnosed with Aspergers and adhd, I didn't give up then and I'm sure I'm not giving up now, it's just nice to know I'm now alone and have here to rant to 
  • michelleRmichelleR Member Posts: 12 Connected
    Received a letter from Pip 6 weeks ago asking for more medical evidence for jacks condition which is difficult as jack has not attended any appointments since he was 18 a she was literally thrown off their books when he turned 18, I rang the tribunal yesterday as still have not heard anything from them they have no record of Pip putting in a case since they agreed they could take it to the upper tribunal, they went back from 10th march when the letter was sent to yesterday and nothing which I really am at a lose about as I thought you only had a month to appeal but again these people get away with it, my health isn't great at the moment so I haven't got the energy to fight it but I'm hoping in a couple of weeks I can get all the paperwork together and put in a complaint about the way this has been handled since day one 
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering
    edited May 2017
    Hi michelleR

    I understand how difficult it is to provide any medical evidence about Jack, but honestly this is the number one thing that makes a difference in a PIP claim. Is it possible to get someone to come to the house (I realise that would involve getting Jack registered again)? If Jack isn't able to attend assessments or hearings in person (I completely understand why), and you don't have much medical evidence either, I have to advise that this could make it a lot harder to get the benefit. 

    Meanwhile it sounds from what you say as if the first tier tribunal agreed that the DWP could go to the upper tribunal, but they haven't received anything since? You are right that the DWP has one month to send in a notice of appeal after they are given permission. The tribunal can extend the time given to do this, but there is not guarantee. If the time limit isn't extended, the appeal is rejected.

    I also think you've done the right thing by telling the DWP that there is a risk of aggression if they come round to see Jack. That is a factor for them/the assessors to consider but I honestly believe that a home visit may be the answer for the assessment. What you need is evidence - I understand that you're in the most difficult position to provide this but if you are not seen to comply with allowing some sort of assessment then you could be in for another decision that refuses PIP (as before).

    Will
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
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