PIP, DLA and AA
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Pip

sophie18sophie18 Member Posts: 20 Listener
edited March 2017 in PIP, DLA and AA
I was given 4 points for the mobility part of pip and so I appealed and lost. I received their decision this week. Ivwent along with a friend and we both commented that they would reject the claim. The Dr didn't really asked the kind of medical questions that would tell her how I cope with the pain. However after everyone had questioned me the Dr commented about the highlights in my hair. My nails that were done by my daughter and were in a state, then she asked me about the shoes I was wearing she thought they were high. They were clarks and it was a wedge heel about an inch. I was told by the physio not to wear flats and to wear the kind of shoes I was wearing. I believe she had an influence on the decision.

i don't believe that just because my family and I want to look reasonabl I should go around with grey hair and flip Flops!!

i need help in what to do next please. Do I appeal again or make a new claim?


Replies

  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,314 Pioneering
    It's not clear Sophie what you've already done. The process is claim, face to face assessment, mandatory reconsideration (MR), tribunal. Where about's are you? Sounds like your calling the MR an appeal? If so you need to decide whether you want to appeal to an Independent Tribunal at the local courts. It's not as scary as it sounds but it's up to you...     
  • sophie18sophie18 Member Posts: 20 Listener
    Hi I went to the courts I think that's the third stage of the process. This was for me very bad. It felt like an interrogation especially when questioned by the Dr!
  • sophie18sophie18 Member Posts: 20 Listener
    edited March 2017
    was given 4 points for the mobility part of pip and so I appealed and lost. I received their decision this week. Ivwent along with a friend and we both commented that they would reject the claim. The Dr didn't really asked the kind of medical questions that would tell her how I cope with the pain. However after everyone had questioned me the Dr commented about the highlights in my hair. My nails that were done by my daughter and were in a state, then she asked me about the shoes I was wearing she thought they were high. They were clarks and it was a wedge heel about an inch. I was told by the physio not to wear flats and to wear the kind of shoes I was wearing. I believe she had an influence on the decision.

    i don't believe that just because my family and I want to look reasonabl I should go around with grey hair and flip Flops!!

    i need help in what to do next please. Do I appeal again or make a new claim?


  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering

     Hello Sophie18

    You are in a difficult situation. 

    Given that you attended a tribunal the next stage in challenging a decision is to show that this tribunal has made an ‘error of law.’ An error of law IS NOT about if you are entitled to PIP.  A legal error is when for example a tribunal has not interpreted the law correctly or there was no evidence to support their decision.

    If you wanted to consider challenging the Tribunal decision the next stage is to ask the tribunal for a copy of the full reasons for their decision and a copy of any hand written notes taken by the tribunal judge.  The appeal service must receive this request within one month of the date of the decision. For example if you attended the appeal and were given the decision on 6 March 2017, then you must make this request by 5 April 2017.

    Your request should be in writing, and state for example ‘I write to request the full reasons for the tribunal decision made on  ------ in regard to my PIP appeal.  I also request copies of any hand written notes taken during my appeal hearing.’   Your letter should also quote your name, address, national insurance number, and if possible you appeal reference.

    Once you have the tribunal reasons it may be worth seeking advice e.g. from a local advice centre, Citizens Advice or Law Centre to see if an error of law can be identified.

    If an error of law is identified you have to write to the tribunal explaining what the error is, and again you have 1 month from the date of the reasons to make this request. If this request is not successful you can make a further challenge and I would encourage you to post again, if this is the case.

    You also asked about making a new claim.  You are able to make a new claim, however if this claim is made soon after a hearing, PIP are likely to make a negative decision.  

    There is no set time when a new claim can be made but I would give it at least a few months.  If however your condition has got worse then make a new claim now, and explain that your condition has got worse and this is why you have put in a new claim.  Your PIP application needs to then detail this worsening in health. 

    Good luck and please post if you have any further queries.

    Maria



    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • sophie18sophie18 Member Posts: 20 Listener
    Thank you so much for the advice. I will keep you updated. 
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering

    Hi Sophie,

    Although it will have been the judge who made the ultimate determination on your case, the Medical member of the panel will undoubtedly have influenced the decision, as that is what they are there to do.

    You rightly say that you have two options now, appeal, or re-claim.

    In order to appeal, you will need to show that there has been an ERROR OF LAW. This may sound a bit complex, but in fact if the decision has been made based on assumptions taken from your appearance, then that may well have been an error. The first thing to do, is to find out whether this did in fact influence the decision. In order to do this, you need to send a copy of your Decision Notice to the Tribunals Service, with a short letter asking for a STATEMENT OF REASONS  for the decision. The Judge will then send a statement of reasons and you can read this and either decide for yourself whether to appeal, or take legal advice on whether to do so.

    As regards re-claiming, if your condition has not deteriorated since you last claimed, then I would give it a few months, as a decision maker would be unlikely to go against the Tribunal. If your condition has deteriorated, then yes, re-claim as soon as possible, and make it clear that your condition has got worse.

    Hope this helps,

    Kind regards,

    Mary

    Solicitor

    The Benefits Training Company

    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • sophie18sophie18 Member Posts: 20 Listener
    Thank you it has deteriorated. I've requested the statement of readings And their notes. Can i makea new claim while i await to receive the documents or should i wait to deal with one issue at a time?
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering
    Hi sophie18

    Like Mary says above you should make a new claim if there has been a deterioration. However, a change of circumstances doesn't usually take effect immediately as there is a 3 month rule meaning your needs must have existed for at least three months before you can be entitled. If your condition has been worse for at least three months since the last decision was made (likely i think) then i would suggest making a new claim straight away. You can do this at the same time as considering appealing the first decision to the Upper Tribunal.

    I think it's worth adding that your second claim is only likely to succeed if you can provide evidence of the deterioration.

    I hope this helps
    David

    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • sophie18sophie18 Member Posts: 20 Listener
    Hi i just rang to make a new claim and they said they can't because the part of pip I'm currently receiving has more than 6 months to end. I don't know what to do next.

    i also spoke with someone at the court as it's been a while since I requested the documents from the appeal. I was told that it's a detailed document and would take time but I thought it was written up for the DSS. I suppose now she'll make certain their thoughts will be matched with the law so I dont stand a chance!

  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering
    hi sophie18,

    If you are getting the daily living component of PIP then no, you can't make a new claim unless you first withdraw your current claim completely in order to start again, which I wouldn't recommend as at least at the moment you are getting money.

    So what you need to concentrate on is the unsuccessful appeal about the mobility component. As my colleague Mary has explained, you have asked for the statement of reasons and this should arrive before too long. It is not written for the DSS (DWP) however. It's written for both parties to the appeal (that is, you and the DWP) and supplied to either or both of them on request. It won't be so easy for the judge to make sure their thoughts are matched with the law if they can't find adequate reasoning for the conclusions they come to.

    Once you get the statement of reasons you should be able to see how much the tribunal used your appearance, including your footwear, to come to their conclusions.

    I strongly recommend that once you get the reasons you seek some face-to-face advice if you can, as we're not able to look at documents here on the forum. You could try your local CAB or a law centre. A specialist adviser can help you decide if there has been an error of law - this can include taking things into account that the tribunal shouldn't have taken into account, which might include your appearance.

    You have to ask the first tier tribunal for permission to appeal to the upper tribunal within one month of getting the written statement, so don't delay once you have it to get the advice you need. I wouldn't recommend going to an upper tribunal without an adviser to support you and help prepare your case.

    Another thing you could consider is making a complaint about the medical member of the tribunal, the doctor who made the comments you mention. You would complain by writing to the regional tribunal judge for your area. However, from a tactical point of view, you may want to wait before you do this (in case it is the same judge that heard your appeal, and who is currently writing up the reasons). These things can be a bit tricky - a local adviser could help you with this.

    Finally, you say you were told by the physio not to wear flats, but who was this? Was this someone who is currently supporting you medically? Did they supply evidence which was submitted to the tribunal? I'm not sure why you think she may have influenced the decision other than by the advice she gave you about footwear. I'm just wondering whether you need to take any other steps about that advice.

    Hope this helps.

    Will
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • sophie18sophie18 Member Posts: 20 Listener
    Hi thank you so very much for all your help and support. Regarding the footwear I attended my appointment at the hospital and the physicist saw I was wearing flats that was when she told me. To be honest I can't wear heels an since I don't go out much I'm always in flat slippers and the shoes I wore was very low wedges Clarke. 
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