PIP points reduced as shopping trolley classed as aid

dan20ddf

I've applied for p i p I've been awarded the care component 8 points but only 4 points for mobility this is based on the decision I can use a shopping trolley which is classed as an aid my physio said this is not classed as an aid I also need to use walking sticks as I'm in constant pain as I've had major back surgery over the past 3 years and I find everyday tasks difficult

Markmywords

I must have missed the descriptor about shopping trolleys. They are trying it on, as they do.

If you need help then the "Ask a benefits advisor" section is the place to go.

wildlife

@dan20ddf, This does sound ridiculous. Have they got written evidence of all your mobility problems? I wonder if this is also because if you go shopping especially to a Supermarket you are scored on being able to walk more than 50 mtrs?   

dan20ddf

Yes loads evidence it's only small shop as I told asseser but she put supermarket I stop min 12 to 17 times rest or sit down were seat free due pain but even physio don't class metal trolley safe or class as aid also have curved spine so walking not easy me 

Nystagmite

But it's not classed as a disability aid. Whereas your sticks are. As I understand it, the descriptors about aids, are aids designed for disabled people. So, your trolley is one that a non-disabled person uses. But there's no reason at all why a non-disabled person needs walking sticks.

It has to be how far you can walk before you stop. It also depends on the speed you walk and whether you can repeat the activity in a safe and timely manner.

dan20ddf

Well this weird thing they are class it as mobility aid on descriptor points because I can use trolley aid so lost 4 points but still stop 14 times more and rest can't repeat again for few days told asseser it's rare I go out as do most online shopping 

Matilda

The DWP notes say that you must not be able to walk more than 20 metres, etc, AIDED or UNAIDED.  Therefore, your mobility is determined by how far you can walk, not whether you use an aid or not.  For example, I used a stick at the assessment and was awarded 10 points with no points taken off for using an aid.

As others have said, I suggest you re-post in Ask a benefits advisor.

wildlife

I too was awarded 10 points when only using a stick.  

Matilda

There is another member who said that he failed to qualify for any PIP mobility because she uses a walker.  It would appear that an aid on wheels makes you lose points!  I'll ask in Ask a benefits advisor.

It would be sensible for people who use walking aids on wheels not to disclose this on PIP forms and not to take them to assessments!  Use a stick - at least it won't disqualify you from PIP mobility.

wildlife

I would think if you use an aid on wheels where both hands are used for support that your mobility is worse than just using a stick and you can't always use this so would need help like for steps or uneven ground so to award less points just shows how illogical things have become. I think all ATOS and DWP staff are given a stupidifying injection when they walk through the door to work..

Matilda

Or maybe they are brainwashed during training!  For example, Atos use the same stock words or phrases: kempt, normal gait, put their bag down on the floor and picked it up again later (even if the person kept their bag on them the whole time), wasn't out of breath, well hydrated, and so on.  And DWP don't think for themselves, just slavishly follow, zombie like, what the assessors have written, 

Will anyone in authority ever realise what a farce the PIP process is?

Nystagmite

wildlife said:

I would think if you use an aid on wheels where both hands are used for support that your mobility is worse than just using a stick and you can't always use this so would need help like for steps or uneven ground so to award less points just shows how illogical things have become. I think all ATOS and DWP staff are given a stupidifying injection when they walk through the door to work..

Steps are ignored for mobility.

Matilda

Curious they ignore steps!  But then much PIP qualifying criteria seems to come from fantasy land.  You can't get PIP for house cleaning help. Are we supposed to live in squalor?

Nystagmite

I was told at my assessment when my friend mentioned my struggles with steps (I've got no depth perception, which means I can't walk down steps and I can't walk up steps because they make me out of breath) that they don't count. The moving around part is based on even, flat ground.

revissy

A shopping trolley as a walking aid is lethal. They can shoot off in any direction, have no brakes and no means of steering. You must appeal against this decision. I hope you get a fair hearing, tell them people can't use them outside of the store. You don't see folk walking in the street with them neither do the social services issue them. 

dan20ddf

Thanks all. Just worries me waiting trying make them understand is not easy but will fight till end as success rate is high I've curved spine so is life long condition. 

WheelyRachel

That's just stupid, I would ask for a review assessment

bendigedig

I agree with @WheelyRachel

Its STUPID!  

It isnt even worth engaging with them.  If they can keep a straight face when citing this sort of ****....It sounds Like writing from a Blackadder or Fawlty Towers scene.

These people are idiots if they think were are going to swallow this nonsense.

dan20ddf

Exactly even judge how far can walk when in assessment mainly just question 

bendigedig

"Is PIP fit for purpose"? A welfare process that negatively affects health?
Read more at https://community.scope.org.uk/discussion/32900/is-pip-fit-for-purpose-a-welfare-process-that-negatively-affects-health#MItUH2VbIKzTcV36.99

Im trying to gather evidence proposing that PIP ISNT FIT FOR PURPOSE.

My argumant is that if its making people Ill then surely its time to review the whole process?  Especially in light of all the incompetence and corruption that is comming to light.

Take a look at the thread pasted above.  Please contribute information if you can.

bendigedig

Its odd isnt it? @Matilda

That in a war zone somebody walking 20 metres in agony might be a hero and be awarded a medal for their services to the Nation.

The PIP process expects that this heroic effort would disqualify you for what you would automatically have received after a medical diagnosis under the DLA?  People are walking 20 metres sometimes in agony and are finding that this disqualifies them from PIP!

You couldn't make this nonsense up.

dan20ddf

 I agree it has put me on anti depression as well at the moment but also got reasons why I'm on anti depression cause can hardly movement without great deals of pain atos put can walk 50 -200metres without asking me or even seeing as sat on sofa whole  time assessment what changed was said go small shop but use trolley but stop 12 14 times at guess within hour as takes me ages walk short slow steps auctioned this distance 

Matilda

Government don't believe there such a thing a disability @bendigedig.  

I've just asked for my tribunal hearing venue to be changed because the first one was in a building where the hearings are on the 4th floor - so I couldn't evacuate the building in an emergency.  Great planning to hold PIP hearings on the 4th floor.

bendigedig

@Matilda
Please copy and paste this to my thread.

"Is PIP fit for purpose"? A welfare process that negatively affects health?
Read more at https://community.scope.org.uk/discussion/32900/is-pip-fit-for-purpose-a-welfare-process-that-negatively-affects-health#MItUH2VbIKzTcV36.99

Its too priceless not to be presented as a glaring example of their rank incompetence.

If the situation wasnt so criminal it would be worthy of laughter.

bendigedig

@dan20ddf
"Is PIP fit for purpose"? A welfare process that negatively affects health?
Read more at https://community.scope.org.uk/discussion/32900/is-pip-fit-for-purpose-a-welfare-process-that-negatively-affects-health#MItUH2VbIKzTcV36.99

Could you please paste your story to my thread.  If its in that thread, when I come to doccument evidence in a presentable format It will all be in one place.

Im going to be hard pressed to do anything other wise.

eleroo

I was told the more aids you have and use the more points you get so I don't understand why you lost points. A shopping trolley is not a disabity aid and they are wrong.  I had my assessment the other day and I and frightened I have said and done the wrong thing.  I had help with the form and the lady put on I have a trolley with wheels bath seat etc and said each on gives points but now I am unsure. 

Lucysam25

Thats what the person  said to me do i go shopping i said i go with my sister and hold on to the trolly and also i sit down were there is sitting  i sat all through the assessment never walked any  where in the house & said the person  i could walk 50meters so i am going through the courts now i do use a stick i can't do without it now  

Matilda

Assessors make the assumption that people can walk farther holding on to a shopping trolley which is not necessarily the case.  If someone can only walk 20m holding onto a trolley, then they can only walk 20m, not 50m.

Lucysam25

I have been told to have a operation on my left  hip because i have arthritis in the left hip how can they justifie my illness with CP & spina-bifida  & arthritis of the knees as well as planter-fasitis     & wear splints I got 9 points  Are they blind this D W P