PIP, DLA and AA
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Pip evidence

charlie2017charlie2017 Member Posts: 24 Listener
edited February 2018 in PIP, DLA and AA
I wondered what evidence people have sent with their claim forms ? I was led to believe the more evidence you send the less chance they will be able to discount your problems or say you're exaggerating but now I'm hearing they ignore the evidence anyway? I'm very confused ! 

Replies

  • Sam_AlumniSam_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 7,729 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @charlie2017 I would say that sending as much evidence as possible is a good thing as it gives assessors the most information possible. :)
    Scope
    Senior online community officer
  • charlie2017charlie2017 Member Posts: 24 Listener
    So do they actually read it ? I sent three letters from ms nurses. One from neurologist, one from my colorectal nurse, one from speech and language therapist , prescription lists, a 9 page diary, a letter from my manager , a copy of my access to work grant for transport to and from work and I still don't know if that's enough 
  • NasmamuNasmamu Member Posts: 45 Connected
    Matilda said:
    @charlie2017

    It's hit and miss how much notice assessors and DWP take of written evidence submitted with PIP claim form.  I submitted my repeat prescription list and a week's diary.  In addition, with my permission, DWP submitted the medical reports from when I first claimed DLA.  Initially I was awarded PIP standard daily living and standard mobility (moving around).  At Tribunal I was awarded enhanced daily living and enhanced mobility.

    The Tribunal placed a lot of emphasis on my diary, my prescription list and the medical reports, as well as on my oral evidence.  So, if DWP ignore the written evidence, a Tribunal will take notice of it.
    Hi Matilda sorry to jockey onto somebody else's question but im in process of collating evidence myself for pip. if i may ask, how many days long was your diary? my condition doesn't really fluctuate but i want to make ATOS and if needs be any tribunal judge understand my difficulties day on day just so they can understand just how difficult living with CP and Crohns really is and how much i rely on my family for help. thank you.
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    @Nasmamu

    My diary covered seven consecutive days.  With a longer diary, I think that assessors and Tribunals probably would only look at the last seven days, anyway.
    Disability Rights have a draft PIP diary on their website.  In the diary list any aids you use.
  • steve51steve51 Member Posts: 7,175 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @Matilda.

    Welcome to our online community !!!

    I have always submitted as much/up to date info as I can  (Medical)

    To date the more info that I have submitted the better the assessors can understand our ongoing problems/difficulties !!!!

     I hope that this info is helpful, please let me know if I can help you further ???
  • charlie2017charlie2017 Member Posts: 24 Listener
    I was told initially the more evidence you send the better which is why I sent so much but then people are saying they don't take any of it into account anyway so I'm not sure how that works or if that's not the case or doesn't happen often 
  • ourvoicesourvoices Member Posts: 47 Connected

    Hi Everyone, it is better to send in as much evidence as you can with your claim form. 

    If you are unhappy with the initial decision from the DWP and decide to ask for a Mandatory Reconsideration, you can then refer to all the evidence you sent.  The onus is then on the DWP to explain why this wasn't considered.

    Equally, if you then appeal and go to a Tribunal, the Judge will also be aware that you have fulfilled your part of the process and supplied all the evidence for the Health Professionals and DWP to consider. 

    Essentially, the fault is theirs not yours.

    Hope this helps.

  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,314 Pioneering
    @charlie2017 yes send in as much evidence as you can. It's useful to match it to the PIP descriptors you are aiming to get and not send stuff they don't need. I know you've already sent yours. I have just ploughed through a great pile of paperwork from my Subject Access Request that has given me a better idea how the PIP process works. The evidence is first received by DWP and is then sent to the assessment company for your assessor to see and use to do your f2f and PA4 report. Each time you request a review ie at Mandatory Reconsideration they send the appropriate evidence back to be assessed by another HP. DWP decision makers do not assess the evidence themselves as they have no medical expertise but they do take note of it and decide which bits of evidence the HP's will need if you're asking them to look at changing your award or just certain parts of it. I think this is where the confusion comes in as everyone thinks that it's the DM's or case workers who decide on the scores but that's not the way it's working. So the evidence is being sent to the right people the fault lies in the HP's willingness or ability to understand the medical conditions and how that affects the claimant. Also having made a mess of it the first time they are reluctant to admit they were wrong. (My opinion ). This is the reason there are so many complaints and why they're not being investigated properly. The only thing you can do is send your evidence and keep on ringing and writing if it's not used properly and if you need to go to Appeal the panel have enough knowledge between them to make an informed decision. 
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    The most important evidence you send in is the first that you send in. The DWP place more importance on this as likely to be true, rather than later submissions that try to fit to certain descriptors. Try to only send evidence that is relevant to your claim and the newest evidence does carry more weight. It is a good idea, if you have a lot of paperwork, to prepare a summary  and a reference index, bullet pointing for each descriptor where to find the specific, relevant evidence. This will make the DM's job simpler and ensure that nothing is lost. 
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,314 Pioneering
    edited August 2017
    @CockneyRebel I'm very interested to know where you read or who told you the first evidence is more important? This might worry some people who aren't able to send all their evidence in with their claim form. There are a number of reasons why evidence might be late like if you've asked the surgery for printouts from your records but they can't do it straight away. You may be asked for further evidence to help with your MR if there's something the DM wants clarifying. This would be equally if not more important than your original evidence as it may be the difference between keeping your award the same or increasing it. 
                    Anyhow that's a good idea about referencing your paperwork so long as your claim didn't include not being able to handle your own affairs.
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    When I refer to first evidence it is understandable that given the short time we have in getting stuff together, even with an extension, that not everything is available in that time frame. First evidence is that which supports your first application and should include any late submissions that you have told them about. Extra evidence for MR's and Tribunals should not be necessary if you have already submited your best case, unless asked for by the DM etc
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,314 Pioneering
    Oh I'm sorry I misunderstood, I thought you meant just what you sent in with the claim form.
                          I have found out from receiving all my DLA evidence from 2010 that evidence that was accepted then by a Tribunal for help from another person with showering and preparing food caused by long term conditions was not accepted in 2017 for PIP. Even though the conditions themselves have been accepted. The excuse DWP make is that the criteria is different for PIP. Criteria is not the activity itself but the disabling conditions that are present that require help to be needed. Preparing food is an everyday necessity and peeling veg. is peeling veg. Does anyone know of any literature that describes the difference that DWP often refer to on their statement of reasons to deny former DLA recipients from having points in these activities, or do any of you have any thoughts on this?
  • Barrylad1957Barrylad1957 Member Posts: 100 Courageous
    Not disagreeing with what others have said on here, but I was advised by local welfare rights to send in my claim form, and that the assessors and/or dwp would request information from my GP; that I would be asked to bring a prescription list and my meds to the assessment when ias/atos contacted me, and that is precisely what it says on the letter in front of me now. My GP told me that she had received, completed and returned two forms sent to the surgery in respect of both my PIP claim, and my long awaited, long overdue WCA. A neighbour who had his first new claim for pip allowed after an assessment six weeks ago, took along his meds in a carrier bag, and a five day diary record of his daily life trials, and was successful. My mate who suffers terribly from a rheumatoid/arthritic condition, submitted reports from neurology, musculo skeletal and psychiatric consultants, plus a long list of the wheel barrow of meds he has to take daily, and was also successful. You hear so many different variations on what to do and what not to do, it all becomes confusing.
    It seems to be the case that things vary from area to area, and assessor to assessor; advice I've had from both claimants and welfare groups locally doesnt always tally with what people whom I know have been advised to do in places as far spread as Pembrokeshire, Essex, and in South Yorkshire. What to do, what not to do.
  • NystagmiteNystagmite Member Posts: 608 Pioneering
    I send in a prescription list and various letters from my GP, ENT doctor, psychiatrist and audiologist. All were ignored. 
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,314 Pioneering
    Did you know that in the updated (Sept. 2016) DWP Guide to the PIP assessment for assessor's that the HP's are supposed to review the evidence and decide whether it's enough or if any more is needed. If the latter they should arrange to contact the people on the claim form to get the evidence needed. I've never heard of them doing this so the advice is still to get your own evidence. 
  • WaylayWaylay Member Posts: 960 Pioneering
    In my experience (6 tribunals now, and won all of them), the DWP only look at the assessor's report, both for the initial decision and for MR. However, it's really important to send it all in, 1) because there's a possibility that you'll be one of the few people whose evidence they actually check, and 2) because the Tribunal really hate it when they can see that the DWP have ignored important medical evidence. 
  • alffy90alffy90 Member Posts: 4 Listener
    edited February 2018
    My long term GP recently retired (I wasn't informed by the way) and my surgery had linked up with another one, therefore a bigger patient list. I've been in 2 times asking for supporting evidence from whoever my new GP is. The first time a doctor explained to me that PIP will ask the surgery for supporting evidence and then waffled on about cost, unpaid overtime for writing letters, and how the surgery has 20,000 patients.
    Last week I got a letter saying I would be having a face to face assessment at my home and to provide some supporting evidence..once again a total brick wall from my surgery.

    Luckily my long term physiotherapist is writing supporting evidence and joining me for the assessment.

    i'm a paraplegic, 28years by the way.
  • lillybellelillybelle Member Posts: 520 Pioneering
    I’ve only sent in a copy of a letter from my Gp confirming my disability and that it affects my day to day living. Plus the fact that I have been referred back to a neurologist as I haven’t been for a while. He also stated that if they would like to know anymore then to contact him.
     When I had the f2f at home, I gave her all the medication boxes and she wrote the names & dosage down.
    proof that the medication info that was written on application form was correct.
    IF I need to ask for a mandatory decision. I will send a copy of the same letter with highlighted bits that I seem are relevant as it is seen by different people.
      I have an appointment date in June to see the neurologist. Hopefully his report will not be needed. However if a tribuneral is required then so be it.
        I can’t remember any medical report being sent with my claim for DLA. A long time ago. ( about 20yrs) And I definately never had a f2f. 
    Im keeping my fingers crossed that the letter will be enough proof

  • Annabelle26Annabelle26 Member Posts: 103 Pioneering
    When I done  my original claim for DLA  years ago a Doctor came to the house (he was a retired GP) & spent over an hour asking me all sorts of questions, examining equipment & watching me walking up & down the hall & because I lived in a flat I had to walk up & down the stairs outside.  On his report I was awarded  lifetime DLA highest mobility & lowest Care Component.  At the time my problems were not so bad.  Last year I was asked to apply for PIP.  My health problems have got worse & they also now include mental health problems.  I had to go for a F2F Assessment where a nurse with only a few years basic experience decided in a 20 minute interview that there was basically nothing wrong with me & produced an inaccurate report on which the DWP have decided I do not qualify for PIP and I am having to go to a Tribunal to prove otherwise.  My income has dropped dramatically because I have lost the DLA.  I cannot get a letter from my GP as they do not issue them but will send details to the DWP if asked for them which they have not done so so far.  On the PIP form I wrote in lots of detail about my conditions & gave details of various Specialists but the DWP have not contacted any of them & relied solely on the F2F report.
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    @Annabelle26

    PIP is about how your conditions affect you, not the conditions themselves.  Your disabilities have to fit various relevant descriptors.  Disability Rights UK site has a good guide to all aspects of PIP including the list of descriptors.

    DWP don't contact doctors.  Did DWP ask if you wanted your original DLA medical reports included with your PIP claim?

    The Tribunal panel will place a lot of weight on your own testimony.  They will ask you many questions about what you can and can't do.  Don't be offended by their questions - the panel are there to find out the facts.

    In my case the DWP asked if I wanted the DLA medical evidence included and I said yes.  The Tribunal panel placed a lot of weight on that and on my own testimony, and not much weight on the assessor's report in which there was one blatant lie and a number of half-truths as I had pointed out in my appeal submission.  The Tribunal awarded me enhanced both components.

    Try to get some f2f advice locally, CAB or similar.  Scope Helpline might be able to tell you about local f2f advice.
  • WaylayWaylay Member Posts: 960 Pioneering
    I'm sorry you're having to go through this. I am too. :/ Try to get more evidence, if you can. Do you have a therapist? Any other medical people? Ask them to write about how your conditions affect you, functionally .
  • alffy90alffy90 Member Posts: 4 Listener
    @Waylay,

    hello. I have my sports therapist joining for for the F2F as she has been working on me for 4 years nearly. The head physio is giving me a letter regarding my treatment and my constant pain issues and I'm about to call them for evidence of all my sessions I've been having.
    i'm picking up a note from my GP tomorrow and I'm going to make an appointment to see a doctor and maybe the practice manager about their lack of cooperation. Bearing in mind I'm taking the word of both the DWP and my doctor who both said the evidence will be asked for to support my claim.
    28 years ago after the car crash, I was examined by 3 medical experts in regards to me getting compensation from the drivers car insurance. The report even stated that I would live another (from 21 years of age) 40 years so I would need DLA for lifetime.
  • WaylayWaylay Member Posts: 960 Pioneering
    Don't take the word of the DWP!
  • alffy90alffy90 Member Posts: 4 Listener
    yes I've discovered not to take the word of both the DWP and the doctor I spoke to.

  • WaylayWaylay Member Posts: 960 Pioneering
    Sad, isn't it?
  • alffy90alffy90 Member Posts: 4 Listener
    Hi,
    had my f2f assessment today which on the surface I believe went very well, just have to wait and see. I showed him the pathetic two lined letter from my GP confirming I was indeed a paraplegic and he said it might be worth sending in as evidence. Now I also have up to date evidence from physio on treatment since I posted my PIP documents off, and also in depth evidence of my treatments prior to sending the PIP form. 
    I was wondering if i should send some of it, all of it or just wait until I get my final results and use it for my appeal should I lose any of my care money?
    Regards, Alffy.

  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    You should send any relevant evidence as soon as possible, their is no benefit in holding anything back in case of appeal. You should submit your best case and may not need to go to tribunal.
    If you do have to appeal, the tribunal will look at all the evidence without the bias of the DWP. In some cases they  do like to see that all the evidence was available at the earliest time

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • lillybellelillybelle Member Posts: 520 Pioneering
    Please only send copies.
    then you have the originals if they go astray or are needed later on
  • lisabrazil80lisabrazil80 Member Posts: 94 Connected
    I gave him a letter from my key work so I send a letter from my doctor and my prescription list as well
  • lillybellelillybelle Member Posts: 520 Pioneering
    Just copies not originals in case they go astray.
    you might need them in the future
  • sdoc94sdoc94 Member Posts: 140 Pioneering
    Unfortunately - my CAB and GP both told me not to send evidence as DWP (in my case DfC, Northern Ireland) would request the evidence. I've heard the opposite on here.

    Anyway - had F2F 12 days ago so patiently waiting on a decision.
    Shady.
  • pjppjp Member Posts: 55 Courageous
    dwp are not required to get medical evidence. i sent in 8 letters. all were ignored. dwp guidelines are to reject 80% of claims regardless of the disability. Result of failing Tory austerity measures.
  • pjppjp Member Posts: 55 Courageous
    i would suggest all against the govt actions on disabled to sign any thing to put them under pressure. here is one

  • brentusbrentus Member Posts: 25 Connected
    I've just sent in my appeal forms and still need to send in my GP's letter,i read somewhere not to send any further evidence in until i had received a case number from the tribunal,anybody heard this or know if its correct? Dwp never contacted my GP or requested my medical records,they said the responsibility for that was mine.So in a 20 min assessment all my medications and treatments were disregarded,everything i told them was not taken into account. My question for my MR was if an applicant has epilepsy for example,but doesnt have a fit in that assessment, do they then not have epilepsy?  Because thats the same as with me,they didnt address that question in their reply.🤔🤔🤔
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,984 Disability Gamechanger
    brentus said:
    I've just sent in my appeal forms and still need to send in my GP's letter,i read somewhere not to send any further evidence in until i had received a case number from the tribunal,anybody heard this or know if its correct? Dwp never contacted my GP or requested my medical records,they said the responsibility for that was mine.So in a 20 min assessment all my medications and treatments were disregarded,everything i told them was not taken into account. My question for my MR was if an applicant has epilepsy for example,but doesnt have a fit in that assessment, do they then not have epilepsy?  Because thats the same as with me,they didnt address that question in their reply.🤔🤔🤔
    Any evidence you sent DWP to support your claim will be included in the bundle they send the Tribunal, so you don't need to send the Tribunal anything you've already sent. You will also get a copy of everything the DWP send them. Any new evidence should be sent to the Tribunal to arrive at least 10 days before the hearing, make sure you add your reference number to everything you send them. You will receive the reference number once they have accepted the Tribunal.

    It can take several months or more for a hearing date, so you have plenty of time to send any extra. Good luck.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • brentusbrentus Member Posts: 25 Connected
    Thanks very much for your reply,i sent everything else with the appeal form,bar my GP letter,which i had to remind them to write. I do hope the £50 i had to pay the GP is worth it lol.Thanks again
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