nav[aria-label="Primary Navigation"] { padding: 0; & ul { list-style: none; width: 100%; display: flex; flex-direction: row; justify-content: start; align-items: start; gap: 30px; padding: 0; & li { margin: 0; } & ul li { list-style: none; } } }

We want to hear from you: please tell us about your experience of the online community.

pip denial

kujaku666

hi

sorry for the long post please read it all

my eldest child has had a diagnosis since he was 12 so nearly 10 year now
he has autism Asperger syndrome and other social and awareness issues and anger and anxiety issues
he also has a serious bowel condition which causes him to mess himself or have over-spill had this since he was diagnosed at the age of 2
he was awarded indefinite lifetime payments for dla,
but we have had to go through the pip process with him as we felt he wasnt on the full benefit we should have been getting as he was getting worse as he got older and needs more help and attention given as hes got older
they have said he doesn't qualify for pip as not enough points

i feel that they haven't taken into account his disability at all
he cant manage his finances so we do all this for him
and yet they have said because he could do a simple sum in his head which was something stupid like if i had £1 and took 80p away what is left at the pip meeting !
so because he did that sum he can look after his own finances which is totally untrue
so no points awarded

he wont wash or stay clean unless we nag him to do this and even then it doesnt work so we have to leave him untill hes ready
we have to make him shower or lay his clothes out or hell just wear the same and not shower for weeks on end
he says he doesnt need to as he doesnt see it as him smelling and being unclean
but we know this as being one of his issues so we try to work around this
but again they say he can dress himself so no points !

they say he can mix and communicate with others but again he doesnt as this again is all part of his disability so he doesnt mix with others or communicate with others he doesnt go out unless an adult like me or my wife is with him as he gets anxious and starts to have panic attacks
but they say he can so no points

they say he can plan and follow a journey
but again he doesnt as he cant go out on his own as he gets anxious and worried so he doesnt go out on his own , when ever he goes out he has adult supervision but they say he can because he knows where the shop is about 50 yards from our house we live in a village
although he doesnt go up there even though its colse to us
as his disabilty doesnt let him
so no points

he has a lifelong bowel problem where he can not go to the toilet for weeks and then we have to give him medicine to evacuate his bowels so he messes himself for days if not weeks after and then he continues to have overspill where hes so bunged up

he cant cook or look after himself as he forgets things and has left the gas on several times and likes to play with kitchen knives inappropriately so he cant look after himself
he doesnt use a utensil to eat with as he prefers to eat with his fingers again this is a part of his disabilty he says why use them when i have fingers

but again none of this was taken into consideration

since having this turned down and telling my son his behaviour has spiralled out of condition and he has smashed up lots of things AS IN HIS WORDS THEY ARE CALLING HIM A LIAR

we have had the letter through
so i have to ask for a reconsideration !!
even though we have all his medical records and supplied them at the point of filling out the application and sent the copies to them with the application think i sent in 11 different letters from various doctors and support teams who weve dealt with and also sent his diagnosis letter in
i am also going to take my son to the doctors again to get a letter from my doctor to support my application to reconsider the decision

we feel that the person doing the pip meeting just glossed over our answers and havent taken a single bit of what we said into consideration !
they have said he didnt seem anxious or worried at the meeting but he was really getting upset and i could see him withdrawing into himself and he wouldnt answer her in the end
i even asked her if she was writing it all down as we was stating his issues and she assured me she was
but not one word of what we said at the meeting has been taken into consideration

ive submitted all his medical reports and his diagnosis letter and further medical letters regarding his life long bowel condition

so what more can we do to help get this decision turned over

thanks in advance

Find more posts tagged with

Comments

steve51

Hi @kujaku666.

It's great to meet you I do hope that we can help ????

I'm so so sorry to hear about your problems with your PIP assessment.

Please please have a good look on our home page where you will find a lot off info on PIP.

We have also got a "Benefits Advisor" which I would recommend myself.

You will also find a "PIP Group " where you can "Meet & Great"a lot off other people in similar situations as yourself.

Please please let us know if we can help you further with this ????

Liam_Alumni

Hi @kujaku666,

Welcome to Scope's online community! It's great to have you here.

I'm sorry to hear about the problems you've been having with PIP - it certainly sounds like a tough time.

The first way to overturn or appeal a DWP benefits decision is to ask for a Mandatory Reconsideration, which you mention in your post. You can find out more information about MRs and appealing on our website, which includes the following video about Mandatory Reconsiderations which you might find useful:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sOsiEFo-Ck

I have also moved this post into our Ask a Benefits Advisor category, where @BenefitsTrainingCo may be able to offer further advice and support.

I hope this helps. If you have any other questions, please do get in touch!

CockneyRebel

The system is far from perfect, but this is just ridiculous. Have you asked for a copy of the assessors report ? Make use of the reliability factors Safely, repeatedly and to an acceptable standard and apply them to each descriptor. It may be worth getting help from CAB or similar and even involving your MP.

Dasiydo

I won't say what happon to me but got feel the Form again Just feel can't do again

BenefitsTrainingCo

Hi kujaku666,

It is certainly worth getting some help from your Local Authority's Welfare Rights Team, if they have one, or your local CAB/advice agency.
It is hard to get a decision overturned at mandatory reconsideration stage without overwhelming medical evidence. You need to ask for a mandatory reconsideration and reiterate all the points you've made above. Without medical evidence it may not change the decision. The DWP pay Capita or ATOS to complete these assessments and almost always go with their recommendations. If the mandatory reconsideration is refused you'll need to appeal. It's a long, hard fight but you owe it to your son to take it as far as you can to get the decision changed. Tribunals are almost always very fair and as long as you and your son attend the appeal you'll have a great chance of winning it I'm sure. Good luck!

Lee

kujaku666

thanks for your replies
i have just had a letter done by the gp who is disgusted by the decision and treatment we went through
and also have medical letters dating back 10 years for his autism and nearly 20 years for his bowel diagnosis

they are so stupid at the meetings its unbelievable
the reply letter i got from them you wouldnt even think it related to my son

i mean even the doctor has said
being able to fold a piece of paper in one hand then pass it to the other hand and give it back to the person doing the interview does not mean he can follow all instructions
same with the managing your accounts and finances part
we said he has his own acc as it give him more feeling he has money coming in
but we buy everything for him he doesnt actually use his card.
yet because he can do a simple sum in his head which was
if i have £1 and take off 10p what do you have left
because he answered this correctly they say he can manage his own accounts and finances
yes he did the sum but he doesnt go out on his own to do these things as he cant !!
even the doctors letter states that this was a ridiculous way of treating my son
and that the question answered has no reflection on the person doing the sum its simple maths and not how or if a person can actually manage there own finances because of autism and social difficulties like my son has
and they say because he doesnt wear pads all the time he doeant have a bowel issue

ive submitted his diagnosis letter and 12 more letters to them when i applied for the pip in the first place
but its like the doctor said they probably havent even been seen by the people dealing with it now

so now its onwards to the reconsideration part
to be honest im classed as pallative care only now as im not going to get better and could really do without all this worry and extra stress

Liam_Alumni

I'm sorry to hear about all the stress it's causing you, @kujaku666.

Please do keep us posted on how the mandatory reconsideration goes!

Barrylad1957

@kujaku666 , sorry to hear you are having such a bad time and got such a rotten deal; Yet another case of too - rigid descriptor adherence, by the sounds of it; I read above that you've got a letter from your gp and years of medical evidence on your son, so you should get a result at appeal, even if you don't get a better Mandatory Reconsideration result. I know its asking a lot, and it might be difficult for you, but try and keep a journal (or even a video diary) of his worst spells at home, and show them as evidence at appeal? Does your son have an advocate, or carer, other than yourself? Who is the healthcare professional who knows him best?
People who are forced to live with crushing physical and mental disablement are failing to get (at assessment phase) help to which they are entitled, simply because they don't understand how the PIP Descriptors work in practice. You'll get all the help you need on this forum, as I did, and you'll probably get a good result from the MR/Appeals route, from the information you've provided in your post above, it beggars belief that you didn't after assessment. I hope you and your son get the help you need, good luck

kujaku666

hi thanks for the kind words

and after going to a mandatory appeal they turned us down again unbelievable

so now it has to go to tribunal to hopefully win this for my son

but was told as its going to tribunal its classed as a new claim and they dont have to backdate his money
now if this is the case its THEFT as far as im concerned of a disabled child's ( even though he is an adult ) money

how can you possibly be lifetime award from point A and 10 years of recieving dla to filling out the pip form
then after that untill tribunal your not disabled
but then after tribunal you are disabled again if you win it

surely they cant keep his money if this goes 6-7-8-9 months untill we get to tribunal thats alot of money they should back date but are saying they wont

ITS JUST THEFT !!
IS THIS CORRECT DO THEY NOT BACK DATE HIS MONEY IF WE WIN THE TRIBUNAL BECAUSE IF THEY DONT I WILL BE GOING TO THE NATIONAL NEWSPAPERS ( sorry for caps but felt like shouting it out )

regarding anyone or health care that can help us out
ive recently been in touch with social services as they said we should have had support from day 1 of him being diagnosed but we havent
and they said for some reason weve slipped through the net
weve never had any support in last 9 -10 years or so since he was diagnosed other than medical till the age of 18 then he was meant to be handed over to the adult medical team but never was! and yes we chased it up in the beginning but after a while its like flogging a dead horse no appointments were forth coming and no further contact untill now .
we said from the age of him being diagnosed with a bowel condition that jamie was and is different to other kids but all we got told was hell grow into it and then through his childhood and schools he just got labelled as a problem child by the schools we asked over and over for him to be tested but it ended up taking us 3-4 years of fighting to get him tested and the diagnosis then given by canterbury authorities
we now have an appointment to see a bowel and wee specialist to see if they can support us in any way
and awaiting social services appointment

and awaiting the tribunal date to come through

thanks again for reading this
steve

kujaku666

they have also only just told us that he can claim esa in the support group
but again when he turned 18 i asked about other benefits on the phone and was told that because he gets dla then we couldnt claim any other for him

but of course theve now told us he can claim esa support

so can i ask for that to be back dated when i apply to eas for him

as it is benefits doing and giving of mis -information why he hasnt claimed this in last 3 years since becoming an adult

Sam_Alumni

Im sorry to hear that @kujaku666

If you need any support going into the tribunal, we have some information videos and do ask the benefits advisors if you have specific questions.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIHjSpNNbQo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WEvbFVlQOc&t=6s

kujaku666

also i would like to copy my reply for the mandatory reconsideration for you to see

but feel it may contain too much personal information and its about 9 pages long after answering each of the benefits reason to why he hasnt got points

Sam_Alumni

Please don't share any personal information @kujaku666 - this is a public forum and so anyone can read this.

If you would like to speak to someone further though, you can call the Scope helpline on 0808 800 3333

CockneyRebel

An appeal to the tribunal is an appeal of the decision made on this claim, it is not a new claim and if successful the money will be backdated

CR

kujaku666

ok cool thankyou for that CR
so his payments will or should be backdated to his last payment on his lifetime award D.L.A

just what confuses me is it states on the letter pip new claim appeals tribunal
and that when i spoke to the person who i had to send the mandatory reconsideration to
he clearly said that once you take it to a tribunal its classed as a new claim and is only paid from the tribunal date you won it on.
basically confirming what i thought and its a way to make revenue up by saying its a new claim and not backdating it .
i thought it was a way to cut back on payments which would add to alot if it was this way, considering the 1000s that have to go to tribunal and the time it takes each tribunal to happen

if i knew it was going to end up like this
i wouldnt have bothered asking them for more care (as he is on the low rate )
because this is alot worse than what we and my son have to now go through,
and the extra money isnt worth the trouble and upset this has caused

CockneyRebel

You should get trained advice from CAB or similar, who will be able to see your paperwork and explain more fully

CR

BenefitsTrainingCo

Hi @kujaku666

Just for clarification on the backdate following a successful appeal - the arrears will go back to the date of the PIP claim (which in this case is presumably the day the DLA ended).

You will soon get the bundle of papers from the DWP stating how they reached their decision - somewhere near the start of the, on the page with the details of the claimant etc, will be the date of claim.

I agree with CR that you would benefit from seeing someone face to face, as I can tell that you are getting really panicked by all this. Try a local CAB, Welfare Rights (sometimes at the local councils) or Law Centre. If you can't find anyone though, don't worry. There is plenty of stuff online.

Remember the Tribunal is impartial, and just wants to get the facts out, so though they will ask some awkward questions at the hearing it is just to get a full picture. CAB also have some useful stuff on their website:-

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/appeals/your-hearing/

Hope this helps!

Kind regards,

Mary

kujaku666

hi all

thankyou for the replies

well nothing has happened other than i phoned them just before xmas or just after and they kindly told me it may be another 9 months from then untill the tribunal

so they are going to take 12 months or more

i feel this is an absolute farce

will update as and when i get any more information

thanks very much everyone

BenefitsTrainingCo

kujaku666,

I can't add to the advice as such, but you might want to complain about the long wait until the hearing (the complaint would be to Her Majesty's Courts & Tribunals Service).

I'd also suggest getting in touch with your MP. You can make the point that the delay you are facing is because assessments are so badly done, the reports are inconsistent/untruthful, and mandatory reconsiderations are also very poorly carried out - all this is what has led to a massive increase in appeals and therefore the backlog you are facing.

This could be changed if the government reformed the assessment system as the Work and Pensions Committee has recommended.

It's always helpful to get professional advice with an appeal, so do try that if you can, but remember, lots of people go to tribunals without help and are still successful.

Will

kujaku666

quick update

thank you for the advice everyone

i have now got the autistic spectrum specialists involved in my sons case
as hes 21 and we have never asked for help before or had any help before,
to be honest we didnt know that it was an option so we struggled by
but now they are on-board
they came to our home and have done a face to face assessment for my sons needs and family needs and how to support us as a family.
and then they came out again to confirm what they was going to say to the tribunal people and have included themselves in the tribunal and will attend for my sons case
in their words its an absolute joke what is happening to us and our son
and that the bundle sent back to us confirmed what i said
that the report sent back doesnt reflect our situation at all.
so it was as i said
the person doing the pip assessment took none of our situation into account !
or what seems far worse never wrote what we was saying when we was allowed to speak at the assessment
still no date from them !!
but told it may be around september time so will be over 12 months from being turned down for pip to ACTUALLY GOING TO THE TRIBUNAL what a joke is all ill say
if it wasnt so unbelievable id be laughing
will update when i get more news

on a brighter note we are also getting occupational therapists involved at home to hopefully make some alterations for myself and my son to help us live in our home easier

also my son has now claimed ESA and has been placed in the support group and didnt even have to attend a meeting when we applied for it for him
so they can see hes not able or fit for work without a interview
yet pip denies us without a thought mmmmmm

thanks very much everyone