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pip denial
kujaku666
Member Posts: 12 Listener
hi
sorry for the long post please read it all
my eldest child has had a diagnosis since he was 12 so nearly 10 year now
he has autism Asperger syndrome and other social and awareness issues and anger and anxiety issues
he also has a serious bowel condition which causes him to mess himself or have over-spill had this since he was diagnosed at the age of 2
he was awarded indefinite lifetime payments for dla,
but we have had to go through the pip process with him as we felt he wasnt on the full benefit we should have been getting as he was getting worse as he got older and needs more help and attention given as hes got older
they have said he doesn't qualify for pip as not enough points
i feel that they haven't taken into account his disability at all
he cant manage his finances so we do all this for him
and yet they have said because he could do a simple sum in his head which was something stupid like if i had £1 and took 80p away what is left at the pip meeting !
so because he did that sum he can look after his own finances which is totally untrue
so no points awarded
he wont wash or stay clean unless we nag him to do this and even then it doesnt work so we have to leave him untill hes ready
we have to make him shower or lay his clothes out or hell just wear the same and not shower for weeks on end
he says he doesnt need to as he doesnt see it as him smelling and being unclean
but we know this as being one of his issues so we try to work around this
but again they say he can dress himself so no points !
they say he can mix and communicate with others but again he doesnt as this again is all part of his disability so he doesnt mix with others or communicate with others he doesnt go out unless an adult like me or my wife is with him as he gets anxious and starts to have panic attacks
but they say he can so no points
they say he can plan and follow a journey
but again he doesnt as he cant go out on his own as he gets anxious and worried so he doesnt go out on his own , when ever he goes out he has adult supervision but they say he can because he knows where the shop is about 50 yards from our house we live in a village
although he doesnt go up there even though its colse to us
as his disabilty doesnt let him
so no points
he has a lifelong bowel problem where he can not go to the toilet for weeks and then we have to give him medicine to evacuate his bowels so he messes himself for days if not weeks after and then he continues to have overspill where hes so bunged up
he cant cook or look after himself as he forgets things and has left the gas on several times and likes to play with kitchen knives inappropriately so he cant look after himself
he doesnt use a utensil to eat with as he prefers to eat with his fingers again this is a part of his disabilty he says why use them when i have fingers
but again none of this was taken into consideration
since having this turned down and telling my son his behaviour has spiralled out of condition and he has smashed up lots of things AS IN HIS WORDS THEY ARE CALLING HIM A LIAR
we have had the letter through
so i have to ask for a reconsideration !!
even though we have all his medical records and supplied them at the point of filling out the application and sent the copies to them with the application think i sent in 11 different letters from various doctors and support teams who weve dealt with and also sent his diagnosis letter in
i am also going to take my son to the doctors again to get a letter from my doctor to support my application to reconsider the decision
we feel that the person doing the pip meeting just glossed over our answers and havent taken a single bit of what we said into consideration !
they have said he didnt seem anxious or worried at the meeting but he was really getting upset and i could see him withdrawing into himself and he wouldnt answer her in the end
i even asked her if she was writing it all down as we was stating his issues and she assured me she was
but not one word of what we said at the meeting has been taken into consideration
ive submitted all his medical reports and his diagnosis letter and further medical letters regarding his life long bowel condition
so what more can we do to help get this decision turned over
thanks in advance
sorry for the long post please read it all
my eldest child has had a diagnosis since he was 12 so nearly 10 year now
he has autism Asperger syndrome and other social and awareness issues and anger and anxiety issues
he also has a serious bowel condition which causes him to mess himself or have over-spill had this since he was diagnosed at the age of 2
he was awarded indefinite lifetime payments for dla,
but we have had to go through the pip process with him as we felt he wasnt on the full benefit we should have been getting as he was getting worse as he got older and needs more help and attention given as hes got older
they have said he doesn't qualify for pip as not enough points
i feel that they haven't taken into account his disability at all
he cant manage his finances so we do all this for him
and yet they have said because he could do a simple sum in his head which was something stupid like if i had £1 and took 80p away what is left at the pip meeting !
so because he did that sum he can look after his own finances which is totally untrue
so no points awarded
he wont wash or stay clean unless we nag him to do this and even then it doesnt work so we have to leave him untill hes ready
we have to make him shower or lay his clothes out or hell just wear the same and not shower for weeks on end
he says he doesnt need to as he doesnt see it as him smelling and being unclean
but we know this as being one of his issues so we try to work around this
but again they say he can dress himself so no points !
they say he can mix and communicate with others but again he doesnt as this again is all part of his disability so he doesnt mix with others or communicate with others he doesnt go out unless an adult like me or my wife is with him as he gets anxious and starts to have panic attacks
but they say he can so no points
they say he can plan and follow a journey
but again he doesnt as he cant go out on his own as he gets anxious and worried so he doesnt go out on his own , when ever he goes out he has adult supervision but they say he can because he knows where the shop is about 50 yards from our house we live in a village
although he doesnt go up there even though its colse to us
as his disabilty doesnt let him
so no points
he has a lifelong bowel problem where he can not go to the toilet for weeks and then we have to give him medicine to evacuate his bowels so he messes himself for days if not weeks after and then he continues to have overspill where hes so bunged up
he cant cook or look after himself as he forgets things and has left the gas on several times and likes to play with kitchen knives inappropriately so he cant look after himself
he doesnt use a utensil to eat with as he prefers to eat with his fingers again this is a part of his disabilty he says why use them when i have fingers
but again none of this was taken into consideration
since having this turned down and telling my son his behaviour has spiralled out of condition and he has smashed up lots of things AS IN HIS WORDS THEY ARE CALLING HIM A LIAR
we have had the letter through
so i have to ask for a reconsideration !!
even though we have all his medical records and supplied them at the point of filling out the application and sent the copies to them with the application think i sent in 11 different letters from various doctors and support teams who weve dealt with and also sent his diagnosis letter in
i am also going to take my son to the doctors again to get a letter from my doctor to support my application to reconsider the decision
we feel that the person doing the pip meeting just glossed over our answers and havent taken a single bit of what we said into consideration !
they have said he didnt seem anxious or worried at the meeting but he was really getting upset and i could see him withdrawing into himself and he wouldnt answer her in the end
i even asked her if she was writing it all down as we was stating his issues and she assured me she was
but not one word of what we said at the meeting has been taken into consideration
ive submitted all his medical reports and his diagnosis letter and further medical letters regarding his life long bowel condition
so what more can we do to help get this decision turned over
thanks in advance
Replies
It's great to meet you I do hope that we can help ????
I'm so so sorry to hear about your problems with your PIP assessment.
Please please have a good look on our home page where you will find a lot off info on PIP.
We have also got a "Benefits Advisor" which I would recommend myself.
You will also find a "PIP Group " where you can "Meet & Great"a lot off other people in similar situations as yourself.
Please please let us know if we can help you further with this ????
Welcome to Scope's online community! It's great to have you here.
I'm sorry to hear about the problems you've been having with PIP - it certainly sounds like a tough time.
The first way to overturn or appeal a DWP benefits decision is to ask for a Mandatory Reconsideration, which you mention in your post. You can find out more information about MRs and appealing on our website, which includes the following video about Mandatory Reconsiderations which you might find useful:
I have also moved this post into our Ask a Benefits Advisor category, where @BenefitsTrainingCo may be able to offer further advice and support.
I hope this helps. If you have any other questions, please do get in touch!
It is certainly worth getting some help from your Local Authority's Welfare Rights Team, if they have one, or your local CAB/advice agency.
It is hard to get a decision overturned at mandatory reconsideration stage without overwhelming medical evidence. You need to ask for a mandatory reconsideration and reiterate all the points you've made above. Without medical evidence it may not change the decision. The DWP pay Capita or ATOS to complete these assessments and almost always go with their recommendations. If the mandatory reconsideration is refused you'll need to appeal. It's a long, hard fight but you owe it to your son to take it as far as you can to get the decision changed. Tribunals are almost always very fair and as long as you and your son attend the appeal you'll have a great chance of winning it I'm sure. Good luck!
Lee
i have just had a letter done by the gp who is disgusted by the decision and treatment we went through
and also have medical letters dating back 10 years for his autism and nearly 20 years for his bowel diagnosis
they are so stupid at the meetings its unbelievable
the reply letter i got from them you wouldnt even think it related to my son
i mean even the doctor has said
being able to fold a piece of paper in one hand then pass it to the other hand and give it back to the person doing the interview does not mean he can follow all instructions
same with the managing your accounts and finances part
we said he has his own acc as it give him more feeling he has money coming in
but we buy everything for him he doesnt actually use his card.
yet because he can do a simple sum in his head which was
if i have £1 and take off 10p what do you have left
because he answered this correctly they say he can manage his own accounts and finances
yes he did the sum but he doesnt go out on his own to do these things as he cant !!
even the doctors letter states that this was a ridiculous way of treating my son
and that the question answered has no reflection on the person doing the sum its simple maths and not how or if a person can actually manage there own finances because of autism and social difficulties like my son has
and they say because he doesnt wear pads all the time he doeant have a bowel issue
ive submitted his diagnosis letter and 12 more letters to them when i applied for the pip in the first place
but its like the doctor said they probably havent even been seen by the people dealing with it now
so now its onwards to the reconsideration part
to be honest im classed as pallative care only now as im not going to get better and could really do without all this worry and extra stress
Please do keep us posted on how the mandatory reconsideration goes!
People who are forced to live with crushing physical and mental disablement are failing to get (at assessment phase) help to which they are entitled, simply because they don't understand how the PIP Descriptors work in practice. You'll get all the help you need on this forum, as I did, and you'll probably get a good result from the MR/Appeals route, from the information you've provided in your post above, it beggars belief that you didn't after assessment. I hope you and your son get the help you need, good luck
and after going to a mandatory appeal they turned us down again unbelievable
so now it has to go to tribunal to hopefully win this for my son
but was told as its going to tribunal its classed as a new claim and they dont have to backdate his money
now if this is the case its THEFT as far as im concerned of a disabled child's ( even though he is an adult ) money
how can you possibly be lifetime award from point A and 10 years of recieving dla to filling out the pip form
then after that untill tribunal your not disabled
but then after tribunal you are disabled again if you win it
surely they cant keep his money if this goes 6-7-8-9 months untill we get to tribunal thats alot of money they should back date but are saying they wont
ITS JUST THEFT !!
IS THIS CORRECT DO THEY NOT BACK DATE HIS MONEY IF WE WIN THE TRIBUNAL BECAUSE IF THEY DONT I WILL BE GOING TO THE NATIONAL NEWSPAPERS ( sorry for caps but felt like shouting it out )
regarding anyone or health care that can help us out
ive recently been in touch with social services as they said we should have had support from day 1 of him being diagnosed but we havent
and they said for some reason weve slipped through the net
weve never had any support in last 9 -10 years or so since he was diagnosed other than medical till the age of 18 then he was meant to be handed over to the adult medical team but never was! and yes we chased it up in the beginning but after a while its like flogging a dead horse no appointments were forth coming and no further contact untill now .
we said from the age of him being diagnosed with a bowel condition that jamie was and is different to other kids but all we got told was hell grow into it and then through his childhood and schools he just got labelled as a problem child by the schools we asked over and over for him to be tested but it ended up taking us 3-4 years of fighting to get him tested and the diagnosis then given by canterbury authorities
we now have an appointment to see a bowel and wee specialist to see if they can support us in any way
and awaiting social services appointment
and awaiting the tribunal date to come through
thanks again for reading this
steve
but again when he turned 18 i asked about other benefits on the phone and was told that because he gets dla then we couldnt claim any other for him
but of course theve now told us he can claim esa support
so can i ask for that to be back dated when i apply to eas for him
as it is benefits doing and giving of mis -information why he hasnt claimed this in last 3 years since becoming an adult
If you need any support going into the tribunal, we have some information videos and do ask the benefits advisors if you have specific questions.
Senior online community officer
but feel it may contain too much personal information and its about 9 pages long after answering each of the benefits reason to why he hasnt got points
If you would like to speak to someone further though, you can call the Scope helpline on 0808 800 3333
Senior online community officer
CR
so his payments will or should be backdated to his last payment on his lifetime award D.L.A
just what confuses me is it states on the letter pip new claim appeals tribunal
and that when i spoke to the person who i had to send the mandatory reconsideration to
he clearly said that once you take it to a tribunal its classed as a new claim and is only paid from the tribunal date you won it on.
basically confirming what i thought and its a way to make revenue up by saying its a new claim and not backdating it .
i thought it was a way to cut back on payments which would add to alot if it was this way, considering the 1000s that have to go to tribunal and the time it takes each tribunal to happen
if i knew it was going to end up like this
i wouldnt have bothered asking them for more care (as he is on the low rate )
because this is alot worse than what we and my son have to now go through,
and the extra money isnt worth the trouble and upset this has caused
CR
Hi @kujaku666
Just for clarification on the backdate following a successful appeal - the arrears will go back to the date of the PIP claim (which in this case is presumably the day the DLA ended).
You will soon get the bundle of papers from the DWP stating how they reached their decision - somewhere near the start of the, on the page with the details of the claimant etc, will be the date of claim.
I agree with CR that you would benefit from seeing someone face to face, as I can tell that you are getting really panicked by all this. Try a local CAB, Welfare Rights (sometimes at the local councils) or Law Centre. If you can't find anyone though, don't worry. There is plenty of stuff online.
Remember the Tribunal is impartial, and just wants to get the facts out, so though they will ask some awkward questions at the hearing it is just to get a full picture. CAB also have some useful stuff on their website:-
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/appeals/your-hearing/
Hope this helps!
Kind regards,
Mary
thankyou for the replies
well nothing has happened other than i phoned them just before xmas or just after and they kindly told me it may be another 9 months from then untill the tribunal
so they are going to take 12 months or more
i feel this is an absolute farce
will update as and when i get any more information
thanks very much everyone
I can't add to the advice as such, but you might want to complain about the long wait until the hearing (the complaint would be to Her Majesty's Courts & Tribunals Service).
I'd also suggest getting in touch with your MP. You can make the point that the delay you are facing is because assessments are so badly done, the reports are inconsistent/untruthful, and mandatory reconsiderations are also very poorly carried out - all this is what has led to a massive increase in appeals and therefore the backlog you are facing.
This could be changed if the government reformed the assessment system as the Work and Pensions Committee has recommended.
It's always helpful to get professional advice with an appeal, so do try that if you can, but remember, lots of people go to tribunals without help and are still successful.
Will
thank you for the advice everyone
i have now got the autistic spectrum specialists involved in my sons case
as hes 21 and we have never asked for help before or had any help before,
to be honest we didnt know that it was an option so we struggled by
but now they are on-board
they came to our home and have done a face to face assessment for my sons needs and family needs and how to support us as a family.
and then they came out again to confirm what they was going to say to the tribunal people and have included themselves in the tribunal and will attend for my sons case
in their words its an absolute joke what is happening to us and our son
and that the bundle sent back to us confirmed what i said
that the report sent back doesnt reflect our situation at all.
so it was as i said
the person doing the pip assessment took none of our situation into account !
or what seems far worse never wrote what we was saying when we was allowed to speak at the assessment
still no date from them !!
but told it may be around september time so will be over 12 months from being turned down for pip to ACTUALLY GOING TO THE TRIBUNAL what a joke is all ill say
if it wasnt so unbelievable id be laughing
will update when i get more news
on a brighter note we are also getting occupational therapists involved at home to hopefully make some alterations for myself and my son to help us live in our home easier
also my son has now claimed ESA and has been placed in the support group and didnt even have to attend a meeting when we applied for it for him
so they can see hes not able or fit for work without a interview
yet pip denies us without a thought mmmmmm
thanks very much everyone
hope you all are as well as can be
just an update on my sons pip claim and the subsequent denial at mandatory and then the long wait to tribunal
WE have finally had the tribunal and we won it and all money is being back dated
we was only in the court for a short time and before we had even sat down they said to my son dont worry you havent got to speak if you dont want to as you have clearly won your tribunal !
it was a long hard wait and 17 months of unnecessary upset and hardship caused by the original denial .
my son originally got 2 points at the first meeting and then the mandatory appeal they still only gave him 2 points.
so after 17 months which is a real liberty taking this amount of time to hear his tribunal claim we won the tribunal and they gave my son 28 points in the end
they have also stated that as the tribunal took so long to happen they have advised the benefits office that we shjouldnt have to claim again for at least 5 years instead of the mandatory 3 years
as they said wed have to start the claim again in such a short period of time and its not fair for us to be put in this position again and so soon after winning
when we have to make a claim again
will we have to jump through hoops again! or will they take into account we won the tribunal and that if circumstances havent changed will he automatically receive pip in the future
or will we have to go to mandatory and then tribunal again
HOW can they get it so wrong at so many points of the claim and then give him 28 points at tribunal ,also why it took 17 months when the people before me at the tribunal had only waited 7 months ? no one could give me any reasoning as to why this happened and why they got it so wrong
i could now get back dated carers allowance as i was advised at the tribunal.
WILL it effect my sons claim or my own claims, or benefits ?
as im not well myself ( classed as palliative care ) and currently on benefit, i am worried it may cause more issues than i can handle at the moment !
if i did claim carers will it cause issues like over payment for the last 17 months on council tax and housing benefit , or my own benefits
this has been a hard struggle to win this battle but its not something i was going to let them get away with
so if you are going through this yourselves then please dont let them bully you out of it
make sure you continue with the claim,
would like to thank all that have helped us
thanks again
thankyou for that infomation
i was told that even though i have a carer looking after me i can still claim carers for my son
as the caring part doesnt have to be anything that contadicts my disabilities
caring can be in a multitude of ways like just being there and tal;king and helping out
ive decided not to bother re claiming the 17 months carers allowance
as my son would lose that part of his benefit
and also i would then have 17 months of hassle with the council and rent and council tax
and to be honest they give you it in one hand and then say you have too much regarding council tax and rent
so it would lead to over payments for those 2 benefits
as i say they give with one hand and take it away wirth the other
benefit caps
what a load of rubbish that is