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pip denial

kujaku666
kujaku666 Member Posts: 12 Listener
hi

sorry for the long post please read it all

my eldest child has had a diagnosis since he was 12 so nearly 10 year now
he has autism Asperger syndrome and other social and awareness issues and anger and anxiety issues
he also has a serious bowel condition which causes him to mess himself or have over-spill had this since he was diagnosed at the age of 2 
he was awarded indefinite lifetime payments for dla,
 but we have had to go through the pip process with him as we felt he wasnt on the full benefit we should have been getting as he was getting worse as he got older and needs more help and attention given as hes got older 
they have said he doesn't qualify for pip as not enough points 

i feel that they haven't taken into account his disability at all 
he cant manage his finances so we do all this for him
 and yet they have said because he could do a simple sum in his head  which was something stupid like if i had £1 and took 80p away what is left at the pip meeting !
 so because he did that sum  he can look after his own finances which is totally untrue 
so no points awarded 

he wont wash or stay clean unless we nag him to do this and even then it doesnt work  so we have to leave him untill hes ready 
we have to make him shower or lay his clothes out or hell just wear the same and not shower for weeks on end
he says he doesnt need to as he doesnt see it as him smelling and being unclean
but we know this as being one of his issues so we try to work around this  
but again they say he can dress himself so no points !

they say he can mix and communicate with others but again he doesnt as this again is all part of his disability so he doesnt mix with others or communicate with others  he doesnt go out unless an adult like me or my wife is with him as he gets anxious and starts to have panic attacks
but they say he can so no points 

they say he can plan and follow a journey 
but again he doesnt as he cant go out on his own as he gets anxious and worried so he doesnt go out on his own , when ever he goes out he has adult supervision  but they say he can because he knows where the shop is about 50 yards from our house we live in a village 
although he doesnt go up there  even though its colse to us
as his disabilty doesnt let him 
so no points 

he has a lifelong bowel problem where he can not go to the toilet for weeks and then we have to give him medicine to evacuate his bowels so he messes himself for days if not weeks after  and then he continues to have overspill where hes so bunged up 

he cant cook or look after himself  as he forgets things and has left the gas on several times and likes to play with kitchen knives inappropriately so he cant   look after himself 
he doesnt use a utensil to eat with as he prefers to eat with his fingers again this is a part of his disabilty  he says why use them when i have fingers 

but again none of this was taken into consideration 

since having this turned down and telling my son his behaviour has spiralled out of condition and he has smashed up lots of things AS IN HIS WORDS THEY ARE CALLING HIM A LIAR 


we have had the letter through
so i have to ask for a reconsideration !!
even though we have all his medical records and supplied them at the point of filling out the application and sent the copies to them with the application think i sent in 11 different letters from various doctors and support teams who weve dealt with and also sent his diagnosis letter in 
i am also going to take my son to the doctors again to get a letter from my doctor to support my application to reconsider the decision 

we feel that the person doing the pip meeting just glossed over our answers and havent taken a single bit of what we said into consideration !
they have said he didnt seem anxious or worried at the meeting but he was really getting upset and i could see him withdrawing into himself and he wouldnt answer  her in the end 
i even asked her if she was writing it all down  as we was stating his issues and she assured me she was 
but not one word of what we said at the meeting has been taken into consideration 

ive submitted all his medical reports and his diagnosis letter and further medical letters regarding his life long bowel condition 

so what more can we do to help get this decision turned over 

thanks in advance 

Comments

  • steve51
    steve51 Member Posts: 7,154 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @kujaku666.

     It's great to meet you I do hope that we can help ????

     I'm so so sorry to hear about your problems with your PIP assessment.

    Please please have a good look on our home page where you will find a lot off info on PIP.

    We have also got a "Benefits Advisor" which I would recommend myself.

    You will also find a "PIP Group " where you can "Meet & Great"a lot off other people in similar situations as yourself.

     Please please let us know if we can help you further with this ????
  • Liam_Alumni
    Liam_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 1,105 Pioneering
    Hi @kujaku666,

    Welcome to Scope's online community! It's great to have you here.

    I'm sorry to hear about the problems you've been having with PIP - it certainly sounds like a tough time.

    The first way to overturn or appeal a DWP benefits decision is to ask for a Mandatory Reconsideration, which you mention in your post. You can find out more information about MRs and appealing on our website, which includes the following video about Mandatory Reconsiderations which you might find useful:



    I have also moved this post into our Ask a Benefits Advisor category, where @BenefitsTrainingCo may be able to offer further advice and support.

    I hope this helps. If you have any other questions, please do get in touch!
    Liam
  • CockneyRebel
    CockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,217 Disability Gamechanger
    The system is far from perfect, but this is just ridiculous. Have you asked for a copy of the assessors report ? Make use of the reliability factors Safely, repeatedly and to an acceptable standard and apply them to each descriptor. It may be worth getting help from CAB or similar and even involving your MP.
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • Dasiydo
    Dasiydo Member Posts: 93 Courageous
    I won't say what happon to me but got feel the Form again Just feel can't do again
    V.shaw
  • BenefitsTrainingCo
    BenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,628 Pioneering
    Hi kujaku666,

    It is certainly worth getting some help from your Local Authority's Welfare Rights Team, if they have one, or your local CAB/advice agency.
    It is hard to get a decision overturned at mandatory reconsideration stage without overwhelming medical evidence. You need to ask for a mandatory reconsideration and reiterate all the points you've made above. Without medical evidence it may not change the decision. The DWP pay Capita or ATOS to complete these assessments and almost always go with their recommendations. If the mandatory reconsideration is refused you'll need to appeal. It's a long, hard fight but you owe it to your son to take it as far as you can to get the decision changed. Tribunals are almost always very fair and as long as you and your son attend the appeal you'll have a great chance of winning it I'm sure. Good luck!

    Lee
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • kujaku666
    kujaku666 Member Posts: 12 Listener
    thanks for your replies 
    i have just had a letter done by the gp who is disgusted by the decision and treatment  we went through 
    and also have medical letters dating back 10 years for his autism and nearly 20 years for his bowel diagnosis 

    they are so stupid at the meetings its unbelievable 
    the reply letter  i got from them you wouldnt even think it related to my son 

    i mean even the doctor has said 
    being able to fold a piece of paper in one hand then pass it to the other hand and give it back to the  person doing the  interview  does not mean he can follow all instructions 
    same with the managing your accounts and finances   part 
    we said he has his own acc  as it give him more feeling  he has money coming in 
    but we buy everything for him he doesnt actually use his card.  
    yet because he can do a simple sum in his head which was 
    if i have £1 and take off 10p what do you have left 
    because he answered this correctly they say he can manage his own accounts and finances 
    yes he did the sum but he doesnt go out on his own to do these things as he cant !!
    even the doctors letter states that this  was a ridiculous way of  treating my son 
    and that  the question answered has no reflection on the person doing the sum its simple maths  and not  how or if a person can actually manage there own finances because of  autism and social  difficulties like my son has 
    and they say because he  doesnt wear pads all the time he doeant have a bowel issue 

    ive submitted his diagnosis letter and 12 more letters to them when i applied for the pip in the first place 
    but its like the doctor said they probably havent even been seen by the people dealing with it now 

    so now its onwards to the reconsideration part 
    to be honest im classed as pallative care only now as im not going to get better  and could really do without all this worry and extra stress 

  • Liam_Alumni
    Liam_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 1,105 Pioneering
    I'm sorry to hear about all the stress it's causing you, @kujaku666.

    Please do keep us posted on how the mandatory reconsideration goes!
    Liam
  • Barrylad1957
    Barrylad1957 Member Posts: 100 Courageous
    @kujaku666 , sorry to hear you are having such a bad time and got such a rotten deal;  Yet another case of too - rigid descriptor adherence, by the sounds of it; I read above that you've got a letter from your gp and years of medical evidence on your son, so you should get a result at appeal, even if you don't get a better Mandatory Reconsideration result. I know its asking a lot, and it might be difficult for you, but try and keep a journal (or even a video diary) of his worst spells at home, and show them as evidence at appeal? Does your son have an advocate, or carer, other than yourself? Who is the healthcare professional who knows him best?
    People who are forced to live with crushing physical and mental disablement are failing to get (at assessment phase) help to which they are entitled, simply because they don't understand how the PIP Descriptors work in practice. You'll get all the help you need on this forum, as I did, and you'll probably get a good result from the MR/Appeals route, from the information you've provided in your post above, it beggars belief that you didn't after assessment. I hope you and your son get the help you need, good luck
  • kujaku666
    kujaku666 Member Posts: 12 Listener
    hi thanks for the kind words 

    and after going to a mandatory appeal  they turned us down again unbelievable 

    so now it has to go to tribunal  to hopefully win this for my son 

    but was told as its going to tribunal its classed as a new claim and they dont have to backdate his money 
    now if this is the case its THEFT as far as im concerned of a disabled child's ( even though he is an adult ) money  

    how can you possibly be lifetime award from point A and 10 years of recieving dla  to filling out the pip form 
    then after that untill tribunal your not disabled 
    but then after tribunal you are disabled again if you win it 

    surely they cant keep his money  if this goes 6-7-8-9 months untill we get to tribunal thats alot of money they should back date but are saying they wont 

    ITS JUST THEFT !!
    IS THIS CORRECT DO THEY NOT BACK DATE HIS MONEY IF WE WIN THE TRIBUNAL BECAUSE IF THEY DONT I WILL BE GOING TO THE NATIONAL NEWSPAPERS  ( sorry for caps but felt like shouting it out )


    regarding anyone  or health care that can help us out 
    ive recently been in touch with social services as they said we should have had support from day 1  of him being diagnosed  but we havent 
    and they said for some reason weve slipped through the net 
    weve never had any support in last  9 -10 years or so since he was diagnosed other than medical till the age of 18  then he was meant to be handed over to the adult medical team but never was!  and yes we chased it up in the beginning but after a while its like flogging a dead horse no appointments were forth coming and no further contact untill now .
    we said from the age of him being diagnosed with a bowel condition that jamie was and is different to other kids  but all we got told was hell grow into it  and then through his childhood and schools he just got labelled as a problem child  by the schools  we asked over and over for him to be tested but it ended up taking us 3-4 years of fighting to get him tested and the diagnosis then given by  canterbury authorities 
    we now have an appointment to see a bowel and  wee specialist to see if they can support us in any way 
    and awaiting social services appointment 

    and awaiting the tribunal date to come through 

    thanks again for reading this 
    steve 
  • kujaku666
    kujaku666 Member Posts: 12 Listener
    they have also only just told us that he can claim esa in the support group 
    but again when he turned  18 i asked about other benefits on the phone and was told that because he  gets dla  then we couldnt claim any other for him 

    but of course theve now told us he can claim esa support 

    so can i ask for that to be back dated when i apply  to eas for him 

    as it is benefits  doing  and  giving of mis -information  why he hasnt claimed this in last 3 years since becoming an adult 


  • Sam_Alumni
    Sam_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 7,682 Disability Gamechanger
    Im sorry to hear that @kujaku666

    If you need any support going into the tribunal, we have some information videos and do ask the benefits advisors if you have specific questions.






    Scope
    Senior online community officer
  • kujaku666
    kujaku666 Member Posts: 12 Listener
    edited October 2017
    also i would like to copy  my reply for the mandatory reconsideration for you to see 

    but feel it may contain too much personal information and its about 9 pages long after answering each of the benefits reason to why he hasnt got points 
  • Sam_Alumni
    Sam_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 7,682 Disability Gamechanger
    Please don't share any personal information @kujaku666 - this is a public forum and so anyone can read this.

    If you would like to speak to someone further though, you can call the Scope helpline on 0808 800 3333 
    Scope
    Senior online community officer
  • CockneyRebel
    CockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,217 Disability Gamechanger
    An appeal to the tribunal is an appeal of the decision made on this claim, it is not a new claim and if successful the money will be backdated

    CR


    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • kujaku666
    kujaku666 Member Posts: 12 Listener
    edited October 2017
    ok cool thankyou for that CR
    so his payments will or should be backdated to his last payment on his lifetime award D.L.A

    just what confuses me is it states on the letter pip new claim  appeals tribunal 
    and  that when i spoke to the person who i had to send the mandatory reconsideration to
    he clearly said that once you take it to a tribunal its classed as a new claim  and is only paid from the tribunal date you won it on.
    basically confirming  what i thought  and its a way to make revenue up by saying its a new claim  and not backdating it .
    i thought it was a way to cut back on payments  which would add to alot if it was this way, considering the 1000s  that have to go to tribunal and the time it takes each tribunal to happen 

    if i knew it was going to end up like this 
    i wouldnt have bothered asking them for more care (as he is on the low rate )
    because this is alot worse  than what we and my son have to now go through,
     and the extra money isnt worth the trouble and upset this has caused 
  • CockneyRebel
    CockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,217 Disability Gamechanger
    You should get trained advice from CAB or similar, who will be able to see your paperwork and explain more fully

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • BenefitsTrainingCo
    BenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,628 Pioneering

    Hi @kujaku666

    Just for clarification on the backdate following a successful appeal - the arrears will go back to the date of the PIP claim (which in this case is presumably the day the DLA ended).

    You will soon get the bundle of papers from the DWP stating how they reached their decision - somewhere near the start of the, on the page with the details of the claimant etc, will be the date of claim.

    I agree with CR that you would benefit from seeing someone face to face, as I can tell that you are getting really panicked by all this. Try a local CAB, Welfare Rights (sometimes at the local councils) or Law Centre. If you can't find anyone though, don't worry. There is plenty of stuff online.

    Remember the Tribunal is impartial, and just wants to get the facts out, so though they will ask some awkward questions at the hearing it is just to get a full picture. CAB also have some useful stuff on their website:-

    https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/appeals/your-hearing/

    Hope this helps!

    Kind regards,

    Mary

    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • kujaku666
    kujaku666 Member Posts: 12 Listener
    hi all

    thankyou for the replies 

    well nothing has happened other than i phoned them just before xmas or just after and they kindly told me it may be another 9 months from then untill  the tribunal 

    so they are going to take 12 months or more 

    i feel this is an absolute farce 

    will update as and when i get any more information 


    thanks very much everyone 
  • BenefitsTrainingCo
    BenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,628 Pioneering
    kujaku666,

    I can't add to the advice as such, but you might want to complain about the long wait until the hearing (the complaint would be to Her Majesty's Courts & Tribunals Service).

    I'd also suggest getting in touch with your MP. You can make the point that the delay you are facing is because assessments are so badly done, the reports are inconsistent/untruthful, and mandatory reconsiderations are also very poorly carried out - all this is what has led to a massive increase in appeals and therefore the backlog you are facing. 

    This could be changed if the government reformed the assessment system as the Work and Pensions Committee has recommended.

    It's always helpful to get professional advice with an appeal, so do try that if you can, but remember, lots of people go to tribunals without help and are still successful.

    Will
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • kujaku666
    kujaku666 Member Posts: 12 Listener
    edited May 2018
    quick update 

    thank you for the advice everyone 

    i  have now  got the  autistic spectrum specialists involved in my sons case
    as hes 21 and we have never asked for help before or had any help before,  
    to be honest we didnt know that it was an option so we struggled by  
    but now they are on-board  
    they came to our home  and  have  done a  face to face assessment   for my sons needs and family needs  and how to support us as a family. 
    and then they  came out again to  confirm what they was going to say  to the tribunal people and have included themselves  in the tribunal  and will attend  for my sons case 
    in their words  its an absolute joke what is happening to us and our son 
    and that the bundle  sent back to us  confirmed what i said 
    that the report sent back  doesnt reflect  our situation at all. 
    so it was as i said 
    the person doing the pip  assessment took none of our situation  into account ! 
    or what seems far worse  never wrote what we was saying when  we was  allowed to speak at the assessment 
    still no date from them !! 
    but told it may be  around september time so will be over 12 months from  being turned down for pip to ACTUALLY GOING TO THE TRIBUNAL what a joke is all ill say 
    if it wasnt so  unbelievable id be laughing 
    will update when i get more news 

    on a brighter note we are also getting  occupational therapists involved at home to hopefully make some alterations  for  myself and my son to help us live in our home easier 

    also my son has now claimed ESA  and has been placed in the support group  and didnt even have to attend a meeting  when we applied for it for him 
    so they can see hes not able or fit for work without a interview 
    yet pip denies us without a thought mmmmmm

    thanks very much everyone 

  • kujaku666
    kujaku666 Member Posts: 12 Listener
    edited February 2019
    hi everyone 
    hope you all are as well as can be 

    just an update on my sons  pip claim and the subsequent  denial at  mandatory  and then the long wait to tribunal 

    WE  have finally had the tribunal  and we won it and all money is being back dated 
    we was only in the  court for a short time and before we had even sat down they said to my son dont worry you havent got to speak if you dont want to  as you have clearly won your  tribunal !
    it was a long hard wait and 17 months of unnecessary  upset and hardship caused by the original denial .
    my son originally got 2 points at the  first  meeting and then the mandatory  appeal they still  only gave him 2 points. 
    so after 17 months which is a real liberty taking this amount of time to hear his tribunal claim  we won the  tribunal and they gave my son 28 points  in the end 
    they have also stated that as the  tribunal took so long to  happen they have advised the benefits office that  we shjouldnt have to claim again for at least 5 years  instead of the  mandatory 3 years 
    as they said wed have to start the claim again  in such a short period of time and its not fair for us to be put in this position again and so soon after winning 
    when we have to make a claim again
    will we have to jump through hoops again! or will they take into account we won the tribunal and that  if  circumstances havent changed will he automatically receive pip in the future
    or will we have to go to mandatory and then tribunal again 
    HOW  can they get it so wrong  at so many points of the claim  and then give him 28 points at tribunal ,also why it took 17 months when the people before me at the tribunal had only waited 7 months ? no one could give me any reasoning  as to why this  happened and why they got it so wrong 

    i could now get  back dated carers allowance as i was advised at the tribunal.
    WILL it effect my sons claim or my own  claims, or  benefits ?
    as im not well myself  ( classed as palliative care  ) and currently on benefit, i am worried  it may cause more issues than i can handle at the moment !
    if i did claim carers  will it cause issues  like  over payment  for the last 17 months on council tax and housing benefit , or  my own benefits 
    this has been a hard struggle  to win this battle  but its not something i was going to let them get away with 
    so if you are going through this  yourselves then please dont let them bully you out of it 
    make sure you continue with the claim, 

    would like to thank all that have helped  us 

    thanks again 
  • poppy123456
    poppy123456 Member Posts: 23,764 Disability Gamechanger
    Great news.

    Claiming carers allowance will depend on what benefits you claim. You also need to be careful because if the reasons your claiming carers allowance contradict the reasons why you're claiming the benefits yourself then it could go against you the next time you're re-assessed.
  • kujaku666
    kujaku666 Member Posts: 12 Listener
    hi 
    thankyou for that infomation 

    i was told that even though i have a carer looking after me i can still claim carers for my son 
    as the caring part doesnt have to be anything that contadicts my  disabilities 
    caring can be in a multitude of ways like just being there  and  tal;king  and helping  out 

    ive decided not to bother re claiming the 17 months carers allowance 
    as my son would lose that part of his benefit 
    and also i would then have 17 months of hassle with the council and rent and council tax 

    and to be honest they give you it in one hand and then say you have too much regarding council tax and rent 
    so it would lead to over payments for those 2  benefits 

    as i say they give with one hand and take it away wirth the other 


    benefit caps 
    what a  load of rubbish that is 

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