Why the DWP doesn't mind losing appeals
Geoark
Member, Scope Volunteer Posts: 1,375 Disability Gamechanger
Cost of Mandatory Reconsideration and Appeal to the DWP - £140
'Which explains why Sir Ernest Ryder, senior president of tribunals, recently told a gathering of barristers that most of the decisions that the DWP tries to defend at tribunals are so bad that they have no case at all and cannot hope to win.'
Confused?
'Because first the DWP refuse benefits to hundreds of thousands of people who are actually entitled to them.
Then they make all those who challenge the decision go though a dispiriting and generally hopeless reconsideration process, which costs the DWP very little
The DWP know from experience that the vast majority of claimants will be physically or emotionally unable to pursue their case all the way to a tribunal and will give up as soon as they realise that their mandatory reconsideration has been unsuccessful.
Others will drop out during the appeal process itself.
A small number will make it all the way to the appeal hearing and, in the majority of cases, leave the DWP unable to defend a clearly unjust decision.'
A lot more information in the newsletter.
As an individual I stood alone.
As a member of a group I did things.
As part of a community I helped to create change!
Replies
People should not be scared of going all the way to PIP appeal, as long as they believe that their current award is safe. If you have a good case, and are well prepared, tribunal hearings are not a major problem. You do need to be prepared for a lot of questions and the panel will ask the same questions over and over again in different ways to see if you waiver. Be confident in your answers: for example, if you can't walk more than 20m before you need to stop and rest, then you can't. If asked for how long, not how far, can you walk always say it takes you X time to walk Y distance.
But the panel are not there to cause you grief for the sake of it - it is their job to ask lots of questions to try and get at the truth. Panels are impartial and 65% of appeals succeed.
We need to get the message across to people that, as long as they believe their current award is safe, then they should go all the way to appeal because the success rate is so high.
You have given me some hope for justification. I am awaiting a date for tribunal hearing for ESA. My medical Report ESA85 was full of inconsistencies, lies and she even contradicted herself! I'm in a complete mess, everyday and night i am overcome with worrying. How do these 'people' (I use the term lightly) live with themselves, what do they see when they look into a mirror? I provided so very much medical evidence and consultant reports for my Mandatory Reconsideration but it seems they just rubber stamp the original decision
It is one reason we need to keep encouraging and supporting people to not just accept what they are being told and to go to appeal. Sadly what was missing is the newish tactic to hold up payment by saying that they are currently looking to appeal the decision, often with nothing happening except for additional stress and frustration for people who need the help.
As an individual I stood alone.
As a member of a group I did things.
As part of a community I helped to create change!
While additional medical information to back what you say is always useful do not forget to address where you disagree with the report against PIP criteria, which you can find at https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/personal-independence-payment-pip/pip-points-system
Also do not forget we are here to help and support you while you go through this process.
As an individual I stood alone.
As a member of a group I did things.
As part of a community I helped to create change!
As I have pointed out before they are doing their jobs, I have posted elsewhere with sources that the DWP has target levels to reject claims at the mandatory reconsideration stage. It is also worth reading the link as there are other nuggets of information in it.
The system is currently designed to encourage as many claimants as possible to drop their claims. While medical information is important as I explained to Kaz1957 the purpose of the assessment is to see how what effects you affects you. So don't forget to focus your appeal on why you believe the assessor was wrong in deciding how you fit into the pip criteria is wrong and why you believe you meet a higher level of need against the PIP criteria. More information can be found at https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/personal-independence-payment-pip/pip-points-system
Don't forget we are here to help and support you.
As an individual I stood alone.
As a member of a group I did things.
As part of a community I helped to create change!
Cheers for some very interesting and useful information. Would like to chuck my 2 pence in.
I have been through the mill with don't give A toss and the lies they tell, on one assessment they said I came alone and was able to manually propel myself over 50 meters from the waiting room to the examination room. My invisible son who pushed me in my wheelchair about 10 meters at most was able to confirm that statement was not true, but the DWP decided I was fit to work because I could lift an empty cardboard box above my head and cancelled my PIP and ESA.
Been having a clear out of paperwork this week (loads of it) and found a note I wrote after a discussion with a decision maker.......He rarely sees anyone being awarded any points now from a medical assessment and said its not really a medical anyway because the people that do them are not doctors, its more like a job interview.
After a long and stressful time I eventually won my appeals but low and behold the dreaded reassessment forms arrived soon after! Rinse and repeat ; )
When your ill it is so easy to just think is it worth all this extra hassle on top of being ill and it seems that the government see disabled people as an easy target. Well I wont be giving in that easy.
Best wishes Rosie
Yes, Rosie, don't let the jokers get you down. Despite the hassle, it's worth appealing.
You give me inspiration! I am so determined to not give in to these monsters! Why make it easy for them? I am awaiting tribunal date for ESA hearing. I am totally prepared for batttle.
At least this time round you know what to expect and prepare for. I'm not sure that this will reduce the stress for you, I hope so.
You mention people wondering if it is worth going through and I would say yes. These benefits are often gateways to other benefits, and enhanced payments, depending on the award.
As an individual I stood alone.
As a member of a group I did things.
As part of a community I helped to create change!
Its like a never ending story
I don't want or need another battle with DWP but no matter how ill I feel I will try my best to have some justice for other disabled people who have been treated like S..T
My gripe is the government are paying more money to companies to stop benefits to disabled people than they would have had to pay out to disabled people. Where is the logic in that? .....Why not just cut out the middle man and help the people that really need help instead of wasting tax payers money trying to swerve the issue.
Yes there may be a few that are faking it but why should the rest of us all have to suffer this on going rigmarole?
Please remember that you are a member of our community and we appreciate you. If you are having thoughts of suicide, it is important that you discuss them with someone who is qualified to help. Please call the Samaritans on 116 123 (free) or email them at [email protected] You might also benefit from reading MIND’s information on how you can help yourself.
mobility scooter she said I did a full frontal bend said I use an aid to dress and undress which is true my husband and or kids i have bed baths as can't get in and out my legs give in had plenty of falls at the moment I've got 3 slipped disc so in agony she basically lied all the way through won't go on with everything she said got my award letter and only got standard daily living but enhanced mobility which it's not about the money it's the fact she lied and wouldn't let my husband answer anything i was stuck on she told him shut up loads of other things anyway I'm waiting for a mandatory decision which i know it won't go my way I'm so depressed really low at the moment high on medication constant pain and ashamed and embarrassed by the system I'm not sure I have the energy to persue it to a tribunal thanks for reading x
I am so sad to hear your experience of what this government is putting you and thousands of other genuine people through!! It also angers me, but we must use these emotions to fight back. Never ever give in! Fight to gain justice! I can understand you feeling depressed because I am going through HELL with this system right now but I refuse to allow this system to beat me! It is the DWP who ought to be ashamed and embarrassed and not you! Majority of cases at Tribunals do win. I wish you feel better.
Debbie x
Many of us wonder how these assessors and departments treat us so badly.
It is important to remember that, unlike us, they are not emotionally involved in our problems. It is just a job. They see so many people that it just becomes another blank form and an indistinguishable person across the table making claims about this, that and the other. Mostly they are untrained in health issues. Generally they don't care about anything but getting through as many as they can as quickly as possible.
They may lie, they may simply not understand, they may be fed up with another idiot asking for something they can't have. There are all sorts of reasons. Maybe it's a woman who has just been treated badly by a man and wants revenge against all men or vice versa. People are people and certainly not infallible. They probably don't understand half of what the documentation tells them or maybe they got bored reading yet another stack of medical information with words they don't understand.
Never expect these people to be sympathetic, that is reserved for friends and family or by someone too embarrassed to say they really didn't want to know your troubles in the first place.
Before you go to or meet these people remember the following rules....
Look exactly as you normally do.
Do not try to do something difficult, just say you can't do it.
Look them in the eye and constantly try to get them to look back into yours.
Don't assume they understand your problems.
Keep explanations simple and to a minimum.
Never use long words if short ones can be used instead.
Help them get through it quickly.
Help them make it easier.
Be polite and never get angry.
If you get upset then cry, don't cover it up.
Do not keep apologising or repeating yourself.
Give one apology at the start if necessary to cover your difficulties explaining.
and one last thing.......
NEVER look happy to be there.
In actual fact this is a good way to approach job interviews as well, but that's beside the point. These people do not know you, do not understand your problems, do not have sympathy for you and do not want to know you or understand what is wrong with you. They just want to do their job.
TK
most are no longer shocked on how rude they are treated, how poorly they are treated, and feel lower in themselves than they should be after being treated like 2nd or even 3rd class citizens for no other point of making there targets and for us for just being ill in the first place, well i'm sorry i'm ill and a burden to the state, but i won't lie down and die just so someone can balance the books either, hit there targets or make my blood pressure rise to a point where my eye goes bloodshot from stress, i'll fight, no longer the silent few, it seems now it's the many and about time everyone knows what's going on and not how it should be, have passed all my details and experiences on to my local MP, who was shocked to see my last Tribunal statement and results from 2012, and now i'm back there again, for every one who fakes it and should lose out, there's 1000 of us who aren't, so why should we be tared with the same brush and treated so poorly? isn't this supposed to be a caring age and time we live in and not back into the early 1800 and 1900 etc