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Home visit denied from PIP but allowed by ESA

PJLUFCPJLUFC Member Posts: 22 Listener
edited February 2018 in PIP, DLA and AA
Hi everyone I have been told by PIP I cannot have a home visit but was granted one by ESA .
I have Fibromyalgia and osteoarthritis which triggers my Bronchial Asthma when stressed also my anxiety levels .I have found ringing them up to explain a bit off putting as they seem to try and goad you into become stressed .
The thing is I can not get anyone to go to the assessment with and can not use public transport or taxis ,They are saying because I have visited my Doctors in the past that I do not meet their criteria ,I am stressed to the max which is triggering my Fibro and anxiety and having to have home visits from my Doctors now due to feeling really poorly and the pain is unbearable and anxiety levels and depression causing My Asthma and everything to flare .
The thing is why would one allow it and not the other can anyone shed some light or help on the matter Ty.

Replies

  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,352 Disability Gamechanger

    You have the following arguments:

    1) Whilst it does not bind them, the fact another provider did a HV weakens their argument.

    2) You are a disabled person under the Equality Act 2010 and you are making a request for a HV as a 'reasonable adjustment'. If they wish to refuse an RA there are a limited number of legal grounds on which they can do so and they would need to specify which. Any refusal could be challenged under EA 10 with potential for damages.

    3) They may not be aware you no longer visit your GP nor why. You need to spell this out.

  • PJLUFCPJLUFC Member Posts: 22 Listener
    Thank you very much Mike for your info and I appreciate it and i will look into it and get in touch with them and more .
  • PJLUFCPJLUFC Member Posts: 22 Listener
    Hi again Mike ,I have sent pip an e mail telling them the reasons why I cannot attend and they cancelled my appointment and said they would look into it ,They sent me 2 letters in the same day on the 1/02/18 one stating that I did not have to do anything and they were looking into more medical information ,It states in the letter that they have done this to make sure the report they send to DWP is fair and accurate .
    The other letter states that they have looked at my case and they still need to see me ,I sent them an e mail and the one they sent back is baffling ,They have rang me now 3/02/18 to book an appointment ,I asked the lad to send me an e mail as to why they can,t see me face to face he said he can,t do that but he could tell me over the phone that because they were unable to contact my doctors by phone or e mail they would have to see me face to face .
    I did put aggressive with situations on my form  when in pain and forgetting what I want to say with myself and do not have any history for violence or threatening behaviour to other people .
    Now for them to force through a face to face without them seeking further information seems very bullyish and totally wrong in procedure and really is bending my mind and making me ill ,Two letters stating different and then to be told they could not get the information because the surgery as not got back to them is appalling in my eyes .
  • Pippa_ScopePippa_Scope Member Posts: 5,856 Disability Gamechanger
    @PJLUFC, I'm so sorry to hear about your experience-it sounds like this process has been quite complicated and time-consuming for you. Do keep us updated when you hear more and we'll offer support/advice where we can. 
  • PJLUFCPJLUFC Member Posts: 22 Listener
    I will do and thank you for the message Pippa ,I really cannot believe they can still go ahead with a face to face and decline a home visit when they still have not obtained more medical evidence by saying the surgery has not got back to them by phone or e mail .

  • PJLUFCPJLUFC Member Posts: 22 Listener
    I received the exact same letters today 5/02/18 what they sent out on the 1/02/18 it seems like a mind game technique and bullying tactic either for me to drop my claim .
    I honestly think they are obviously trained to do this as when speaking to them on the phones they are really pushy and seem to want to goad you into confrontation .
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,352 Disability Gamechanger
    See my post earlier in the thread re: EA 10. Now issue them with a letter before action on the basis of a breach of EA 10 duty to do reasonable adjustments. Plenty of templates on t'internet. Their response to that will pleasantly surprise you.
  • PJLUFCPJLUFC Member Posts: 22 Listener
    Cheers Mike I will look into it further ,What would you suggest ringing them or just write the letter .
    I,m a bit confused on it tbh and not really clued up but really appreciate your time .
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,352 Disability Gamechanger
    Waste of time ringing. Just go straight to an EA 10 letter before action. You'll either get a HV or they'll mysteriously find that they have enough evidence to recommend a decision based on just the paperwork they have. Funny that!
  • lillybellelillybelle Member Posts: 458 Pioneering
    It’s ridiculous !
    i was given a home visit, didn’t ask for one or particularly want one.
    and yet people who need home visits are declined.
    i can’t understand the reasoning behind this system
  • PJLUFCPJLUFC Member Posts: 22 Listener
    Cheers Mike i,m browsing a site bow and reading up on f2f and ea10 and it is unbelievable what I,m reading on how PIP work and try to deceive ,I know I,m been a nuisance where would I get an EA10 letter or do I write a letter referring that it is an EA10  letter ,Once again ty very much .
  • PJLUFCPJLUFC Member Posts: 22 Listener
    browsing a site now that should have said .
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,352 Disability Gamechanger
    Google examples of letters before action. Then adapt one to put in an argument that they've breached your right to a reasonable adjustment (a HV) under EA 10. Alternatively, get a solicitor or other advice agency to do it. It doesn't need a solicitor though. Anyone can do it.
  • PJLUFCPJLUFC Member Posts: 22 Listener
    Yes it is quite unbelievable Lillybelle and certain friends did warn me about PIP but I never thought for one bit it would be like this .
  • PJLUFCPJLUFC Member Posts: 22 Listener
    Cheers Mike I will do that and really appreciate your messages and everyones support and feedback and help it as lifted me tbh .
  • PJLUFCPJLUFC Member Posts: 22 Listener
    Received an e mail back from PIP and they are saying they spoke to my doctor and he said he would not speak to them without consent which they say they all ready had .Now I find this funny because the doctors have all ways been willing to help them when they have supposedly needed evidence previously .
    They also stated because of this they had sent a letter requesting the evidence but not received a reply yet ,My brother as sent mail back requesting a copy of letter for me to give to a doctor on a home visit from him .
    In one paragraph in one of the letters they sent me it states that they are writing to let me know they have asked for further information from people involved in my treatment and care to make sure the assessment report they send to the DWP about my case is fair and accurate .
    When I applied for pip I sent them the info from the ESA assessor which goes aloong with DWP guide lines ,I find it hard that they are unwilling to wait for the doctors report from the letter and force a F2F on me knowing full well there is possible evidence waiting for them .
  • lillybellelillybelle Member Posts: 458 Pioneering
    I was told by my GP. That even though I had signed the form allowing DWP to get more info about me from the doctor , The doctor will not allow it.
    The doctor has to have my written consent himself before giving any information out at all to anybody 
       I have a letter from him that I have sent a copy  off with my forms but the DWP cannot access anymore medical info without me authorising the doctor to do so
    probably this is what has happened in your case
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,352 Disability Gamechanger

    You get asked a question about who your GP is etc. when you have your phone conversation. At that point you ought to be asked to give consent to contact being made. This is confirmed by PIP sending a copy of the information they gathered as part of the call. That's the PIP 1. Most claimants don't currently get a copy even though they say they should. A PIP 2 should only be triggered when you've okayed the PIP 1. Never happens. They just send the PIP 2 straight out and you've no proof of what you said or consented to.

    Your GP does not require written consent from you at all as they are legally required to provide certain reports once you have consented. The only circumstance they can refuse is if you don't give PIP consent to contact or if you yourself ask for evidence from the GP.

    A shambles in other words.

  • lillybellelillybelle Member Posts: 458 Pioneering
    I am just relaying what happens at my GP practice .
    they say even though I have given them consent, which I have. They will not give any details to the DWP without contacting me first and me giving consent to my doctor.
    which I think is very good.
    i cannot answer for anybody else or any other GP practises
    i wish you all the best with your claim
  • PJLUFCPJLUFC Member Posts: 22 Listener
    I totally agree Lillybelle and Mike the thing is on other phone call to PIP they have said we rang your doctors blardy blah etc and they seemed to have got it when it suited them which makes me think or smells like BS coming from PIP therefore misleading me or backing me into a corner .
    Once again Mike and Lillybelle thanks for the messages and deffo going down the EA10 route cheers Mike .
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,352 Disability Gamechanger
    I am just relaying what happens at my GP practice .
    they say even though I have given them consent, which I have. They will not give any details to the DWP without contacting me first and me giving consent to my doctor.
    which I think is very good.
    i cannot answer for anybody else or any other GP practises
    i wish you all the best with your claim

    It is very good but it's also wholly unnecessary and a bit unfortunate as it introduces further delay into a process already riddled with him. Perhaps if your practice has a patient forum you could raise this and explain why I might be a concern.
  • PJLUFCPJLUFC Member Posts: 22 Listener
    It just gets better they sent an e mail to say they don,t keep copies of letters they have sent to my doctor requesting the supposed medical evidence .
    They gave me a phone number to ring DWP I rang the number and Patricia could not find anything seeming quite baffled and then passed onto Sean who was quite nice and understanding and seemed to think it was a pass the buck or start of a merry go round saga like myself .
    On the whole a total waste of time very baffling and not helpful one bit and not good for the stress factor ,Total and utter Sham company PIP .
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,352 Disability Gamechanger
    Bear in mind that when you ring DWP you're largely dealing with outsourced call centres of non-DWP staff with limited system access. Their responses are rarely truthful and some of them seem to literally make it up as a means of avoiding having to concede that they're not DWP.
  • PJLUFCPJLUFC Member Posts: 22 Listener
    it seems that way mike i rang atos back he told me to ring them back asking for a subject access request on which she as had to ask her line manager as she as never heard of that request .
    atos have denied RA and just spoke to lass from dwp she said i have to write in to ask for letter and gave me details etc but told me it may take upto 40 days for them to send letter back lol .
    I have f2f on 16/02/18 so waiting to provide further evidence getting the letter is a no go and seems they have it boxed off on that one 
    Not to worry home visit from doctor tomorrow and hopefully they may do me a new letter if not the EA10 is all ready to send ty Mike .
  • PJLUFCPJLUFC Member Posts: 22 Listener
    Another stumbling block they have brought up ,I was honest in filling form out and mentioned the word aggressive 3 times .
    Now once again I have no history of violence and my home visit from ESA did not state any aggression ,,Obviously pain causes people to become irate and as i have stated to them Anxiety (fight /flight syndrome makes people aggressive in both stages )I have stated that I become aggressive when people persist in selling me rubbish or will not listen to me friends or family winding me up about been in bed most of the time or i am in pain .
    I have told them I welcome people who understand my Illness with open arms and my brother who works in the care sector who understands and helps me with everything ,But once again they have picked up on my honesty and using it against me .
    I feel that people will in future refuse to express how they feel and this could work against them drastically on a HV .
    Once again Mike can I ask if it,s pointless writing the EA10 letter now or have they got good grounds to refuse a HV ,In one e mail they have stated this but contradicted themselves by saying they are looking at further medical evidence because I am getting HV from my doctor so they may be able to provide one .
  • PJLUFCPJLUFC Member Posts: 22 Listener
    It worked Mike ty very much ,they have agreed to a home visit but that was a horrible experience i have never felt so low in my life and i personally believe there customer services have lied on many occasion and are disgusting .
    I asked them eventually if they were doctors or if they had any medical experience the call centre workers as they are so ignorant and like to play god it seems .
    I honestly had given up hope but during the last days leading up to a f2f i think they realised i was willing to go that bit extra ,Once again I appreciate your advice and everybody,s feedback .
  • Pippa_ScopePippa_Scope Member Posts: 5,856 Disability Gamechanger
    So sorry to hear that your experience hasn't been good @PJLUFC, unfortunately I'm sure many of our members will be able to relate to your story. Glad to hear that you've managed to sort a home visit, I really hope it goes well!
  • PJLUFCPJLUFC Member Posts: 22 Listener
    Thanks Pippa and hopefully it does go well. and I hope it encourages others not to let them bully anyone in deciding to stop the claim and get good advice like I did.
    I,m really glad I searched the net and came on this site .
  • Icon_MissingIcon_Missing Member Posts: 9 Listener

     If they ever mention aggressive then point them to this article http://https//www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/grandad-62-battered-six-foot-13223567


    Hello all, newbie here looking for similar advice, the only difference being that I am married to a severely disable wife who self harms and has suicidal tendencies. They have refused me a  home visit, I complained to the DWP who said they would sort matters out and today I get another appointment for 1st April (taking the you-know-what?)

    I physically cannot drive the 90 minute journey to the assessment centre let alone do it twice in order to get home because of the pain I'm constantly in, we live in a rural part of Cumbria, the assessment centre is in Lancaster. My pain relief means I can become drowsy and the second pain killer can cause hallucinations, should make for an interesting drive down the M6! Any help would be most appreciated

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    Have you rang the health assessment providers? If not try ringing them because face to face assessments are nothing to do with DWP and they don't arrange them. It's nothing to do with DWP until the report has been returned to them. You will need a letter from your GP stating the reasons why a home assessment is needed.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • FetlockFetlock Member Posts: 79 Courageous
    edited March 2019
    Bear in mind that when you ring DWP you're largely dealing with outsourced call centres of non-DWP staff with limited system access. Their responses are rarely truthful and some of them seem to literally make it up as a means of avoiding having to concede that they're not DWP.
    The contact number for Capita and ATOS assessment centres are staffed by non-DWP staff- they're run by Capita/ATOS so wouldn't be, however the PIP new claims and enquiry lines are not outsourced and are 100% staffed by DWP employees.
  • Icon_MissingIcon_Missing Member Posts: 9 Listener

    Sorry, my fault, didn't do the timeline properly.

    I received an invite to Lancaster, phoned them and said I can't drive that distance and have a wife with the problems I mentioned who cannot be left alone as it would mean leaving her in danger, we have no outside help and no family that can sit with here even if I was able to drive the 3-4 hour round journey. They said no home visit allowed because of the use of the word "aggressive" on my form. My GP called me in to ask if there was any chance of my being aggressive to the assessor and could she they would contact her back (they called her when she wasn't on duty) to confirm. They didn't phone, no records at the surgery of any phone call. The guy on the phone said they phoned her back so that's a lie, he then said to get her to phone them but wouldn't supply a contact name or number to give her.

    I complained about his actions, he said they could arrange it for the DWP hierarchy to look at the claim, I phoned them myself the same day and the DWP person - can't remember their title but not one of the grunts on the switchboard - was apologetic and stated they would indeed look at the evidence without - is it Maximus at Lancaster? - the assessors needing to be involved. I heard nothing for over 4 months. Yesterday this latest "invite" arrived on the same day my DLA uprating letter arrived (you can't make it up!)


    So this is the second "invite" not the first

  • Icon_MissingIcon_Missing Member Posts: 9 Listener
    *Update -  2 hours on the phone to the DWP and Atos (I don't use their alias) and still refusing a home visit even when using the Equality Act 2010, any suggestions? Oh and the guy at the DWP stated that there are NO home visits to those that use the word "aggression" on their forms, yes I know, it's a lie but it is the DWP after all
  • mercedesbdmercedesbd Member Posts: 109 Courageous
    Have you had your F2F yet? Or your decision?
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