Do not understand

mobbba

Thank you mikehughescq.  Would this make any difference?  I don't feel I can go through another tribunal hearing. I was told they were impartial and I felt like I was being quizzed by DWP.  I had DLA full mobiity and low rate car since 2001. My symptoms are much worse than when I first applied, so I cannot see a reason for zero points on both now.


Carole

mobbba

Hi Susan...I have taken your advice and posted on the DLA/PIP thread

Carole

Waylay

@mobbba I'm certainly not an expert, but the fact that he said, Well, you can walk 200m if you put your mind to it" is probably a reason to appeal to the UTT. They didn't take into account safety, repeatability, etc. 
Also, I don't know if them forcing you to tell them why you had a breakdown is an error of law in any way, but it's certainly a moral error! Jesus. 

I'm so sorry this happened to you.

mobbba

Mike...Thank you for your comment.  I see you are a legal expert.  I understand what you are saying. But on the basis of my medical evidence I feel I should have received some points instead of zero. I started receiving DLA in 2001, was re assessed in 2009.

I have many aids from Social Services which include a wheelchair. I have Breathing problems. I have to wear a prescribed boot to be able to put my foot on the floor because of ankle and foot arthritis.  Its not as if mental health problems are the only thing wrong with me. Overwhelming evidence from 2 consultants and a professor of Rheumatology stating my problems walking, plus other.!

susan48

Hi Mobbba,
i do hope your feeling a little better.
think you should seek advice about your appeal decision,
you might then have a better and clearer understanding of what chance you have at an upper tribunal

take care 
Susan 

mobbba

Hi Susan.... I need to find a Solicitor I think to do that.  I am not au fait with the legal side of things.  I have just answered Mike who threw a few things out there.

I understand what he is saying but the panel had lettersfrom Mental Health professionals detailing my problems so they obviously knew that things had happened to me or I would not have had therapy for 7 years running and then 2 lots of CBT after that.  I honestly don't understand.

Regards
Carole

susan48

Carole,
Try the Law Centre, there’s one near me, I didn’t know they existed until someone kindly told me about them on this site.
you can search for the closest one to yourself, if they cannot help maybe they can help you find someone who can.
It’s a very uncertain road for you, again, but try and stay strong 

Susan

Pippa_Alumni

I'm so sorry to hear about your experience @mobbba, I can only imagine how difficult the Tribunal and the days following it must have been for you. It's good to see that you've had some support and guidance off other members of the community- if there's anything we can assist you with, please do let us know. 

mobbba

Thank you Pippa.  I am not to well.  Had panic attack last Friday, still recovering.

Pippa_Alumni

So sorry to hear that, @mobbba. Are you receiving any support for your mental health?

whistles

I would have thought mobility would have scored you something? I actually don't fully get the self tests because I got enhanced and i scored myself zero! 

I suppose my thinking is, how has it got to this stage without anyone advising what proof you need to supply beyond the medical. Pip is different in that they want proof of the assistance, aids, support and consequences without. Proof of consequences in my case is the emergency services. You can get copies of any hospital records etc.

whistles

Ok help me out here.

Someone orders my medication, collects it, supervises to check i haven't forgotten. This person told the assessor this and that's what the forms also said, plus I have a dosette box.
This scored me a zero because the assessor decided i could do it myself as i had no cognitive, memory issues.
What else can I have provided? 

Barbiesnemesis

I know how the system 'works' but why does this have to be the system? For Christ's sake the whole process expects such a high level of knowledge for a person to get through it that you are practically set up to fail from the outset.

maid08

Username_removed said:

Makes perfect sense. None of the above post says why you need to have someone do it. What’s the diagnosis of your memory issue? Without that key bit of info they’re perfectly entitled to conclude there’s no reason for you to have what you have. People assume DWP have magical powers of deduction but if you don’t tell them they don’t know.

makes perfect sense ummm could be short-term loss due to tabs or illness my meds are sorted for me due to memory  perhaps you can tell us how to prove this apart from doctors decisions also when i sorted them i would put them on table turn to get water then walk in sit down watching teli till i was asked why are youer tablets here??? ohhh but first lets ask why tab are in doset box ???

whistles

They were given my diagnosis in section two along with it causing memory issues and migraines (on long term pain relief) 
I explained the above in more detail plus the why in section five. 
It's the side effects of the condition that causes my memory to be like sludge at times. 

I think you have summed it up though. No diagnosis, forget it. They were ok with that but ignored the side effects of it.

@Barbiesnemesis one of the reasons I scored zero on other things was because i had insight and could keep myself safe. 

We are the most vulnerable in society and seem to need to be able to function just to fill the form out properly. 

maid08

whistles said:

I would have thought mobility would have scored you something? I actually don't fully get the self tests because I got enhanced and i scored myself zero! 

I suppose my thinking is, how has it got to this stage without anyone advising what proof you need to supply beyond the medical. Pip is different in that they want proof of the assistance, aids, support and consequences without. Proof of consequences in my case is the emergency services. You can get copies of any hospital records etc.

what is never explained is **** doctors or consultants reports when they say supply medical evidence ?they mean just explain how you are day to day hour by hour who does what  and can you breathe or move in any way if yes ahh well no pip   lets not keep on listening to you must prove how ill u are  we can all claim to be ill  but only doctors can prove you are  and they know how in the future it will affect you  such as memory loss or laps i know one sure fact if i have another acessmant they will tread lightly there will be no more treated like a fool 

maid08

Username_removed said:

Makes perfect sense. None of the above post says why you need to have someone do it. What’s the diagnosis of your memory issue? Without that key bit of info they’re perfectly entitled to conclude there’s no reason for you to have what you have. People assume DWP have magical powers of deduction but if you don’t tell them they don’t know.

hahaha joking now the last sentence come on now mike they can cure you of all illness just sat there asking you childish questions  and when you tell them as many are finding out  how desperately ill you are matched by medical evidence and fail then wait months for appeal or mr 

mobbba

Username_removed said:

The burden of proof in terms of evidence for PIP is exactly the same as for DLA. It’s the balance of probabilities. They don’t need proof of assistance, aids pr support. What they need is consistent evidence which largely points in the sand direction. You are the claimant. The burden is on you to provide the evidence. The best evidence is personal and anecdotal. 

@whistles there is absolutely no way anyone will contact the emergency services. The burden of proving entitlement falls squarely on you not the DWP.  So, for example, a side of A4 explaining the full circumstances of your last couple if hospital admissions will almost always be more valuabke than anything medical. 

 

Username_removed said:

The burden of proof in terms of evidence for PIP is exactly the same as for DLA. It’s the balance of probabilities. They don’t need proof of assistance, aids pr support. What they need is consistent evidence which largely points in the sand direction. You are the claimant. The burden is on you to provide the evidence. The best evidence is personal and anecdotal. 

Mike can you please explain the above comment. Where do I get to explain how these medical issues affect my life?

I did spell it out on the assessment...in detail.  Failed assessment.
I reiterated it on Mandatory Reconsideration  No joy there
I tried to explain at the appeal and was asked questions, which i answered, which were yes/no, but was not allowed to elaborate, I tried to explain and and was asked another question before I could get out what I wanted to say.  I felt they were trick questions.  Like:......"Do you cry" I answered yes he then asked "when".
How can you explain yourself to people that do not want to listen and had your case mapped out before you even went into court.  I did catch the DWP representative looking at the judge on at least two questions.

I have taken some advice, This is what I found out

 "Carole....I have spoken to a friend who is a tribunal ss judge she urges you to make a complaint about the judge in question and panel as she categorically states that if anxiety is listed on the submission and in the bundle then the court are not allowed to probe too deeply and certainly not when PTSD is listed in the paperwork or a stressful event in the past. She was horrified to hear what happened as was I and strongly recommends that this should be challenged on the grounds of an error and that the tribunal acted out of their jurisdiction. She was also concerned to hear she was awarded nil points also" 

Barbiesnemesis

I hope this works - https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=how+to+win+pip+tribunal&view=detail&mid=8FF0E9BA516E2F13FD9E8FF0E9BA516E2F13FD9E&FORM=VIRE. This is the best description of how tribunals work that I found. It describes what mikehughescq is describing. I found it really useful for getting an insight into the tribunal process.

mobbba

Yes  I have looked at this.  This only will work if you are given a chance to describe in detail how your day is, how your health problems affect you. I was not allowed to say anything out of turn I could only answer questions.  I was cut short if I tried to explain any situation.