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planning a route

charlenecharlene Member Posts: 555 Pioneering
although the question states planning a route, what does that mean. Does it mean if you drive, then it would be a car journey.  If you are on foot, then it would be car, train or plane. What distance would that long journey cover?
When the going gets tough, the tough get going.

Replies

  • charlenecharlene Member Posts: 555 Pioneering
    Also, what about food and drink?
    When the going gets tough, the tough get going.
  • wilkowilko Member Posts: 2,294 Disability Gamechanger
    @charlene, hello. I understand by planning a route means if you have a dog you take it for a walk you would know where you are going to be walking your dog and getting back home again as I do but using a mobility scooter. Do you know the way to the local shop or shopping Center, doctors hairdressers ect, it's not that you may drive there but you could or can or do direct your driver the correct way. As for food and drink can you eat and drink unaided or do you need a special cup beaker or cutlery to help or assist you at meal times.l hope that answers your questions.
  • charlenecharlene Member Posts: 555 Pioneering
    Hello Wilko, have never thought of it that way. To all of above I would answer yes.  A longer journey would be different as I have memory lapses and miss turn of etc.  Then things get worse with panic.  But food for thought.
    When the going gets tough, the tough get going.
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    edited March 2018
    To be able to plan a route is just that, you do not have to make the journey. You could plan a route for someone else ie. from the nearest bus stop to your home

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • charlenecharlene Member Posts: 555 Pioneering
    Being a driver and living in the city all my life, I have a good idea where most places are.  The building where Atos has its office, The road it is in, I have driven down hundreds of times over the years.  Also I have a sat nav. The building Atos has to assess ESA, I worked there years ago, and my senior school is over the back.  Also my son's business premises are in the same complex as their building. 
    When the going gets tough, the tough get going.
  • charlenecharlene Member Posts: 555 Pioneering
    Lots of laughs I couldn't make sense of your reply re special cup then realised I had confused you with posting my question in 2 parts. I meant food and drink on journey:).  

    A long trip would be one confined to the city I live in?

    A few years ago I drove all over the country up and down motorways. It was nothing to do a 6 hour round trip. Obviously I have to somehow lessen my horizon:( but all this is helping as I am getting a better insight into what is being asked.
    When the going gets tough, the tough get going.
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    PIP make no distinction regarding length of journey.

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • charlenecharlene Member Posts: 555 Pioneering
    I wouldn't have a clue about buses or bus stop, haven't used a bus in over 40 years. I thought it wasn't just planning but you also have to carry it out personally.
    When the going gets tough, the tough get going.
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  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    11a  can plan and follow the route of any journey unaided  -- 0 points
    11c  cannot plan the route of a journey - 8 points

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • charlenecharlene Member Posts: 555 Pioneering
    Lol that made me laugh, I have a very black sense of humour. 

    Monday, as they say I am going into therapy, although a few minutes after the phone call I forgot the time!  I worked at the Health Center at one time, and held out to se a psychologist there.  I panic if I am offered places I don't know. 

    On my assessment the assessor wrote that recently, I tried to commit suicide, but still ticked the box I could do the journeys.  

    I am absolutely fine  at the moment, and have taken comments in the light hearted manner they were extended:)  but still have to say, I am beginning to be a little baffled with what the PIP want.
    When the going gets tough, the tough get going.
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  • charlenecharlene Member Posts: 555 Pioneering
    CockneyRebel's surely that is a hypothetical question. As I have stated I have a good knowledge of my City, knew exactly where Atos was situated. In that situation I am fine. Asked to to go somewhere I don't know, been asked to attended appointments for different things, refused to go, fortunately been offered other venues.  Atos does not set a question stating where you are expected to go, and can u get there or make out a plan of the journey to get there.
    When the going gets tough, the tough get going.
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    Playing devils advocate,
    Assessor "So you cannot plan a route to your front gate" ?

    11c is so loose it can  be misinterpreted any way they want

    As with all the descriptors you should take them very literally and use their language back to them. You have to make your claim fit the descriptor not the descriptor fit your claim. Descriptors are like the ten commandments, written in stone

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • susan48susan48 Member Posts: 2,229 Disability Gamechanger
    Charlene,
    i understand exactly, I had a dog, take him for a walk, the same time, place every day. not far from my house.
    i can go to places I know but to go to say, a supermarket myself especially if it’s busy is a definite no, the last time I was i a supermarket, with a friend, I had a panic attack and people stared at me so now I do online shopping
  • susan48susan48 Member Posts: 2,229 Disability Gamechanger
    Hope that makes sense, 
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    susan48 said:
    Charlene,
    i understand exactly, I had a dog, take him for a walk, the same time, place every day. not far from my house.
    i can go to places I know but to go to say, a supermarket myself especially if it’s busy is a definite no, the last time I was i a supermarket, with a friend, I had a panic attack and people stared at me so now I do online shopping
    This would not be the same as planning a journey, and does not fit well with any of the descriptors

    CR

    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • susan48susan48 Member Posts: 2,229 Disability Gamechanger
    Ok CR,
    I was just saying and I beg to differ.
     Going out to places that are not in your usual life, going to strange places is relevant.
    As my appeal granted points for, mobility, I did not appeal getting 0 points for mobility but the awarded anyway.
    It is all very confusing and clearly open to interpretation. 
    I possibly didnt type what I actually thought.

  • wilkowilko Member Posts: 2,294 Disability Gamechanger
    If I didn't have Maggie to walk several times a day and meet other walkers for a chat and hello I would be bored, plus going out when dark or raining is no fun but got to be done. As for shopping not nice going in crowded shops with scooter to dangerous not fare on other shoppers but I do venture to local Co-Op to get milk staff helpful putting milk in bag and getting from cooler.
  • susan48susan48 Member Posts: 2,229 Disability Gamechanger
    Wilko,
    I put I had a dog when I actually do!!
    the whole reason to get him was to get me out of my house, and a focus on life.
    the walks in the cold, rain etc are awful but that the purpose of having mine. Or I would not go out.
    hes so loving and knows when I’m not feeling so good, unconditionally love 
  • charlenecharlene Member Posts: 555 Pioneering
    Strange how some get the mobility award and some don't. Susan it certainly must be open to interpretation.  I honestly can't walk that far and will be house bond without a car and yet I was awarded nil points.  I don't want to think of my life if things go pear shape for me in a MR or Tribunal.  All I know is that it will be no life.
    When the going gets tough, the tough get going.
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    I have noticed here and on other forums that the planning and following journeys section is the most difficult section to come to terms with, it is not straight forward  ( no pun intended ) unlike moving around  ie. 1-20 metre yes or no

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • susan48susan48 Member Posts: 2,229 Disability Gamechanger
    It’s a lottery I think Charlene.
    I went from 9 point and 0 points to 19 points and 10 points.
    i only really had and issue with communication, the rest I was ok with but I scored 0 when I struggle or can’t communicate.
    that is the only reason I appealed.
    i hope things go ok at MR for you. 
    Just stay strong, and fight for what’s right
  • susan48susan48 Member Posts: 2,229 Disability Gamechanger
    Communicate verbally 
  • charlenecharlene Member Posts: 555 Pioneering
    I spoke the truth on that one to CockneyRebel's, but the assessor didn't believe me. Must come over as a shady character, a liar.
    When the going gets tough, the tough get going.
  • susan48susan48 Member Posts: 2,229 Disability Gamechanger
    Charlene,
    i think they think everyone is a liar but who would put themselves through this if they were not being honest!
    It’s too traumatic and stressful to do this if it wasn’t the truth.
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    Unfortunately the burden of proof is always on us. and this is where the system fails.
    How can you prove that you can only walk X ?
    The assessors have their 12 commandments written in stone and our problem is to fit into their little boxes. All of us are different, we all have our coping mechanisms just to get through the day and unless we drop these when we are assessed the HCP doesn't see our real selves so comes to an incorrect conclusuion abot our abilities

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • charlenecharlene Member Posts: 555 Pioneering
    i am seeing  a therapist for depression and anxiety  Monday,  after attending a while she might give me a letter covering my anxiety levels.

    don't really like these sessions as things crop up and I normally get worse before getting better.
    When the going gets tough, the tough get going.
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  • charlenecharlene Member Posts: 555 Pioneering
    CockneyRebel's, I think I am beginning to know the way I am going to take on , tackle this journey question.  

    At present I need to try and clear my mind somewhat, in readiness for my. appointment tomorrow. I except what you say on coping mechanisms. 
    When the going gets tough, the tough get going.
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    I hope your appointment goes well

    CR
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • charlenecharlene Member Posts: 555 Pioneering
    Thanks Cockney Rebel.  At least the snow has melted so I will be able to get out.
    When the going gets tough, the tough get going.
  • sleepy1sleepy1 Member Posts: 299 Pioneering
    Good evening all, very interesting discussion. 

    I have probably made a big mistake as I put on my PIP review form at Q11, I can plan a journey from my bedroom to my bathroom and back but sometimes it doesn't always go as planed.  So technically I have admitted I can plan a simple journey!

    A few years back I had a late appointment at a large hospital in a city I had not been to before, I meticulously planed every detail of the journey and because the hospital had several car parks and entrances I made sure I chose the nearest one to my appointment.  Got there no problem parked up went in, things were running very late and by the time I had been seen it was dark and when trying to leave the doors that I had entered had been locked, as were many others.

    A security guy came up to me and asked what I was doing, (probably spotted on camera) told him I was lost and trying to find a way out, eventually after he drove me all over the place we found my car.  I was so traumatised when I left I ended up going the wrong way down a slip road to the motorway, thankfully I was able to do a u turn before killing anyone.

    Perhaps being able to cope with unexpected things happening during a planed journey is something they should think about?


  • sleepy1sleepy1 Member Posts: 299 Pioneering
    @charlene
    Good luck for tomorrow X
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,314 Pioneering
    In my experience, which is not to say my assessor was right, planning and going on a journey or even not going but being able to go if you chose to was as simple as stepping outside my front door alone. To score the higher amount of 10 points I would have to never go out alone which I don't. However at my assessment in January 2017 I told my assessor I had walked less then 50 meters to the end of our close to be helped onto a private coach which took me along with other elderly people a 3 minute journey to our village hall where I spent 2 hrs with people I knew then traveled back the same way. I only went once as I didn't enjoy it. For declaring this I scored 0 points. My assessor did not explain this event in any other way other than I attended an over 60's club on my own every 2 weeks. To ensure they gave me 0 points my case worker changed what the assessor had told her that my hubby takes me to church 1 mile away by car to that I travel there alone even though I don't drive and there are no buses on a Sunday evening. I am telling you this as it's the worst case scenario. I was given 4 points at a 2nd MR for needing encouragement to go out based on a 46 year history of engagement with mental health services. 
  • sleepy1sleepy1 Member Posts: 299 Pioneering
    @wildlife
    God bless you for your attempts on trying to get to church and passing your driving test  ; )
  • WaylayWaylay Member Posts: 922 Pioneering
    Huh! I always assumed that planning a journey involved looking up bus times, or using Google Maps to figure out how to get somewhere, etc. 
  • whistleswhistles Member Posts: 1,590 Disability Gamechanger
    I got enhanced for the journey question. 
    I can't plan it. Simple as that. 

    We had snow yesterday. Something that innocent throws me completely. I couldn't plan how to go from a to b. So didn't.





    Do not follow me, I don't know where I am going.
  • NystagmiteNystagmite Member Posts: 609 Pioneering
    I scored 0 because I can sometimes go somewhere familiar. We'll just ignore the fact that I can't do it safely because I cant judge the speed of traffic or hear where it comes from.

    I got it looked at again and got 12 points. 
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,314 Pioneering
    @whistles neither can I but I had stepped across the threshold of my abode in an outward direction alone which proved to my assessor that I was quite capable of planning and following the route of an unfamiliar journey without another person or aid to help me as often as I wished.
    @sleepy1 you made me laugh. Thank-you. I passed my driving test years ago but after my 4th road accident and the onset of concentration and confidence issues my hubby decided I was not fit to drive. I went along with it to keep the peace but it's 8 years now since I got behind the wheel. As I've said before PIP does not encourage progress in any of our illnesses or how independent we can be otherwise it's stopped. After my experience of having to try and convince them of what help I need and a review in less than 2 years despite being 67 I remain forever handicapped not only by disability but by PIP.     
  • sleepy1sleepy1 Member Posts: 299 Pioneering
    @wildlife Lol don't even think of getting back behind that wheel, I tried it after a few years off and it was a nightmare, got a £60 parking ticket within the first hour (with a blue badge displayed!) next outing something went bang on the car so had to pull into a bus lane, police car was there behind me within seconds.  They had a quick look at the car and said it should be ok to drive and drove off, so I drove off but a few seconds later ended up going down hill with no brakes (thank God the traffic lights turned to green just at the right moment) managed to free wheel into a lay by and then had to call for a tow truck to get the car and a total wreck (me) home.

    I loved driving and still got my car that has not moved since then but have now accepted the roads are better off without me.  Be thankful you have your own private chauffeur to get you to the places you don't really want to go to ; )
  • whistleswhistles Member Posts: 1,590 Disability Gamechanger
    @wildlife are you referring to the assessment? Did you go on your own? 
    They would see that as planning the journey. 
    Do not follow me, I don't know where I am going.
  • wildlifewildlife Member Posts: 1,314 Pioneering
    @whistles No I didn't go on my own. As @sleepy1 would say my own personal chauffeur took me and stayed with me all the way through. I said in my previous post what they used to decide I could go anywhere alone and its obvious to anyone other than them how ridiculous that was.   
  • charlenecharlene Member Posts: 555 Pioneering
    Because I panic and close my mind straight away, to planning an unfamiliar journey, that is what I must say.  Also, when out I collapsed unconscious, braking 2 teeth on the way down.  Landed up in hospital, and the next day some  tests were done, including taking some fluid from my spine (heart attack) only thankfully to be told all tests were negative.  Later as an outpatient, I had a CT and MRI scan done, and all was fine.

    Finally I was told I collapsed due to stress, very rare occurrence on all account, but I did.  I do know the name  but it alludes me at present, and will put it down on my form.  Publish and be damned.
    When the going gets tough, the tough get going.
  • whistleswhistles Member Posts: 1,590 Disability Gamechanger
    It will be on your medical records. The emphasis is on us to prove the problem. 
    Do not follow me, I don't know where I am going.
  • charlenecharlene Member Posts: 555 Pioneering
    IT is called postural hypotension.  Doctor advised me if the symptoms I experienced started up again, to lay down on the floor as quick as I can.  Did this once in Morrison, later a member of staff, walked me to my car.

    over the years my life has become more and more restricted as a way of controlling things.  Who in their right mind puts themselves into a position of danger? 
    When the going gets tough, the tough get going.
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