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Unfare award

wendy1966wendy1966 Member Posts: 32 Listener
Hi there i recently applued for pip . i have 45% movement of one are . both knees are bad . and i am haveing probs with my left shoulder . and how i have had my letter and i can not dress myself lower than my eaist. Or put sock shoes on and i can not do the thing when ive been loo . they have awarded me low rate care . abd have said i need aids not help im furious . oh and my assement said i had adiquate movemebt in my shoulder ... I am currently waiting orthapedic 6 weeks till i go .... Im at a loss and feel let siwn x 

Replies

  • wendy1966wendy1966 Member Posts: 32 Listener
    wendy1966 said:
    Hi there i recently applued for pip . i have 45% movement of one are . both knees are bad . and i am haveing probs with my left shoulder . and how i have had my letter and i can not dress myself lower than my eaist. Or put sock shoes on and i can not do the thing when ive been loo . they have awarded me low rate mobility . abd have said i need aids not help im furious . oh and my assement said i had adiquate movemebt in my shoulder ... I am currently waiting orthapedic 6 weeks till i go .... Im at a loss and feel let siwn x 

  • wilkowilko Member Posts: 2,194 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi wendy1966, you have two options appeal via a MR or accept your award, I take it you are moving from DLA to PIP. Is the award what you expected or did you think you should have been awarded more?.  Did you or have you done a self test to see how you would score using the descriptors on the sitehttp://www.mybenefitsandwork.co.uk/pip/indexxx.ph
    if you take the test be honest with your self as you will have to justify  your answers you put in your application form.
  • wendy1966wendy1966 Member Posts: 32 Listener
    hi no i have never applied for pip or dla, and i did do a self assesment , and tbh i got 9 points, they have given me 6, for wash and dress, and toilet , and basic food prep, she put things down in the reort i never said tbh, like i can getinto and out of the shower unaided i cant , i do not have any adaptations to my house as its private, and the landlord refuses too allow it ,
  • NystagmiteNystagmite Member Posts: 609 Pioneering
    If you got 9 points on self assessment, your award sounds right. I don't get your issue?
  • wendy1966wendy1966 Member Posts: 32 Listener
    i got 8 points on the mobility section thats what they awarded me , but on the daily living i got 6 points, i never got daily living which is what i need it in more that mobility tbh .

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  • wendy1966wendy1966 Member Posts: 32 Listener
    it does not matter ,

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  • MisscleoMisscleo Member Posts: 646 Pioneering
    A lot of people would swop with you
  • wendy1966wendy1966 Member Posts: 32 Listener
    swap me for what low rate moblity ,im not meaning to sound rude here but it does not really help me at all
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  • wendy1966wendy1966 Member Posts: 32 Listener
    Victoriad said:
    Hello @wendy1966
    It does matter as you are obviously upset about this and I am really sorry if I sounded a bit off.......honestly not intended.

    Ask if @CockneyRebel
    or @mikehughescq
    can advise you as these contributors to the forum are well on the ball in giving advice on the legalities of such situations.

    Take care 

    its ok maybe i come across as being ungrateful, i dont mean to be, but if you knew the full hing im sure you would understand x

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  • charlenecharlene Member Posts: 555 Pioneering
    Hi Wendy, glad to se you back, I was concerned for you.  
    When the going gets tough, the tough get going.
  • wendy1966wendy1966 Member Posts: 32 Listener
    thankyou its really stressing me out this ,x

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  • charlenecharlene Member Posts: 555 Pioneering
    I bet it is, the assessment is not a pleasant thing to go through.   Try and keep calm for your heath's sake.  You also will need all your energy if you wish to challenge you award.
    When the going gets tough, the tough get going.
  • wendy1966wendy1966 Member Posts: 32 Listener
    i just dont understand what they got that i can do certain things with means of an aid, when its my partner who helps me, i have explained he has notw got to go to work and that help is no longer there for me, wipe my bum with an aid are they having a laugh when i have one arm that works , and a shoulder which she seemed to think is a ok, the problem i have is that my orthapedic appointment is not for antoher 5 weeks, so im not even going to have that evidence ,ive ben to numerous physio who have now said can the could do no more ,and actually told me to go back to docs OH MY WORD .i feel so let down

  • wendy1966wendy1966 Member Posts: 32 Listener
    maybe im just too honest and saying diffuculty is not saying i cannot

  • charlenecharlene Member Posts: 555 Pioneering
    If you already have their decision, then you will have time to get extra medical evidence from your physio. Have you asked for the assessors assessment? This  you will need to go to a tribunal, if you want to fight their decision.
    When the going gets tough, the tough get going.
  • wendy1966wendy1966 Member Posts: 32 Listener
    no i need to do a reconcideration first i think, and i am going to get as much as i can befoore my deadline date
    thanks

  • charlenecharlene Member Posts: 555 Pioneering
    Have you had a letter from Atos, stating what award points the have awarded you?  If you have you have a month to tell the what you disagree with, but you need to back this up. This is an MR.
    When the going gets tough, the tough get going.
  • wendy1966wendy1966 Member Posts: 32 Listener
    yes i have love and i am going to try, but my shoulder im waiting for an orthapedic and i feel this will not be  in time before it is due in ,
    they seemed to think i had adiquae shoulder movement i beg to differ and she also put i could get into the shower un aided and them words never left my lips ;(

  • charlenecharlene Member Posts: 555 Pioneering
    Wendy, AIDS in every day living score points.  Some people  need to use a shoe or sock horn,  and yes a bum wiper.  I use adapted toilet seats which the council provided.  They also supply a commode if required.  These items would not mean any change building works to your home, and they score points.
    When the going gets tough, the tough get going.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,364 Disability Gamechanger
    Ah, right. So what you’re saying is that they’ve awarded points for using aids or appliances rather than the higher points for needing assistance or promoting from another person? Not unusual and the rest of what you say is not unfamiliar e.g. inaccuracies in the HCP report. 

    Bottom line is that it’s MR time and you should already have a copy of the HCP report. Bear in mind that just because you have problems dressing below the waist (for example) and you get someone to help you with that does not mean they should automatically come to the same conclusion as you that you need that help. It is open to them to conclude that you don’t need that help, for example, because you can actually dress/undress, albeit slowly or in pain. If they concluded that you could undress slowly but not more than twice as slow as a healthy person your age then they could legitimately not award points. 

    You need to make the case for every activity to score points on and then back it up with evidence. Best evidence is your item  stories about the help given and examples of what has happened if the help isn’t given. If you don’t have those examples then your claim is in trouble.

    Medical evidence does not automatically win your case either. A GP, for example, will have no idea about your ability to dress/undress unless they have seen you do so. If they write something which says they would expect you to have such difficulties that’s not an automatic winner either. It’s an opinion but not necessarily a credible medical opinion. Comments along the lines of “I would expect a person with x to have y problems” are just guesses at what the average person with that condition might have problems with. Unfortunately a DWP decision maker/case manager is not looking at the average person. They’re looking specifically at you. 
  • wendy1966wendy1966 Member Posts: 32 Listener
    yes yes i understand you now, and thankyou so much for helping, i am having a loo seat and a perch chair for my kichin and also a bath seat i think, but as far as grab rails go they cannot adapt the house as the landlord says no, so they are saying i was seen to wipe my eye with my left hand which sufggests i can wash my hair . whats all that about , so you are saying that i am unable to get into the shower on my own as its a foot up and my knees dont work , i also do not and cannot hav a grab rail fitted coz my right arm is disabled and also the landlord refuses id that what you mean , sorry i sound dim im just very confused bout the whole thing ,

  • wendy1966wendy1966 Member Posts: 32 Listener
    i need to go into each section i do not agre with and point out what she has decided and why i do not agree
    is that it and try and get evidence like a picture of my shower and the height of it to get in, and also how tiny it is , like them saying i could use a sponge on a stick , but my shower is so small i only just fit in tring to use an aid with one good hand lol

  • whistleswhistles Member Posts: 1,603 Disability Gamechanger
    Have you got your actual assessors report? 
    Mine was different.

    What I found with the self tests, was doing them over time scored me different.
    I did them here and there. On a good day, when things were a bit crap and when my day was total you get my drift. 
    I gave myself what the assessor gave me, accept the mobility because I probably didn't understand the questions. 
    But imo he saw what I see most of the time. 

    However I was here posting that I wasnt happy to lose the care initially. I was angry and I think we need to remember that by the time we get the award, we have a shed load of emotions all running around at once. Anger, disbelief, uncertainty. 
    Having someone write things so personal about you as adequate can make you feel like rubbish! The aids I used were written as not needed.

    If you feel it's wrong then do the MR. You know yourself best. 
    Do not follow me, I don't know where I am going.
  • charlenecharlene Member Posts: 555 Pioneering
    Just try and take things in exceptable chunks, that is what I do when my mind scrambles.  All the AIDS you are having are acceptable, and if your local council provided them , it carries more weight.  Make sure you mention the Council in your MR. Consider the other AIDS as they can make life better. Those  bum wipers are a form of medieval torture lol.

    Because you raised your hand to your eye that was good enough to say you can wash your hair.  I was told once by an assessor, okay you can' t wash your hair with your right arm, but you do have a left arm.  Just raise above it, put it in the past , use your energy to 
    When the going gets tough, the tough get going.
  • wendy1966wendy1966 Member Posts: 32 Listener
    whistles said:
    Have you got your actual assessors report? 
    Mine was different.

    What I found with the self tests, was doing them over time scored me different.
    I did them here and there. On a good day, when things were a bit crap and when my day was total you get my drift. 
    I gave myself what the assessor gave me, accept the mobility because I probably didn't understand the questions. 
    But imo he saw what I see most of the time. 

    However I was here posting that I wasnt happy to lose the care initially. I was angry and I think we need to remember that by the time we get the award, we have a shed load of emotions all running around at once. Anger, disbelief, uncertainty. 
    Having someone write things so personal about you as adequate can make you feel like rubbish! The aids I used were written as not needed.

    If you feel it's wrong then do the MR. You know yourself best. 
    not sue i get you fully here hun, you are saying accept the mobility ,yes im happy with it , but just the care side ,

  • whistleswhistles Member Posts: 1,603 Disability Gamechanger
    Sometimes I feel like pip is like rolling a dice.
    The assumptions made can be bizarre. If you can raise your hand up, you can fly a boeing 747. 

    Don't forget its the job of the assessor or cm to look for ways out of the award. 
    These aids are worth less points I think than requiring actual assistance. So they will argue you could wash with one arm with the sponge on the stick and sit in a chair by the sink.
    I got told i could sit on a chair.

    Do not follow me, I don't know where I am going.
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  • whistleswhistles Member Posts: 1,603 Disability Gamechanger
    wendy1966 said:
    whistles said:
    Have you got your actual assessors report? 
    Mine was different.

    What I found with the self tests, was doing them over time scored me different.
    I did them here and there. On a good day, when things were a bit crap and when my day was total you get my drift. 
    I gave myself what the assessor gave me, accept the mobility because I probably didn't understand the questions. 
    But imo he saw what I see most of the time. 

    However I was here posting that I wasnt happy to lose the care initially. I was angry and I think we need to remember that by the time we get the award, we have a shed load of emotions all running around at once. Anger, disbelief, uncertainty. 
    Having someone write things so personal about you as adequate can make you feel like rubbish! The aids I used were written as not needed.

    If you feel it's wrong then do the MR. You know yourself best. 
    not sue i get you fully here hun, you are saying accept the mobility ,yes im happy with it , but just the care side ,

    It's up to you if you accept or know it's wrong. 

    Do not follow me, I don't know where I am going.
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  • charlenecharlene Member Posts: 555 Pioneering
    I agreed I could wash my hair, after what the last assessor said about having a left hand.  I can  wash my hair but it with the fat of my hand 
    When the going gets tough, the tough get going.
  • charlenecharlene Member Posts: 555 Pioneering
    I think I will buy a chair to sit on up the garden.  Get my brother to come down and use the  hose pipe on me.  Would that score points or be explained away!
    When the going gets tough, the tough get going.
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  • charlenecharlene Member Posts: 555 Pioneering
    Oh my goodness, just realised I am a slap head!
    When the going gets tough, the tough get going.
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  • wendy1966wendy1966 Member Posts: 32 Listener
    Can i retract the reconcideration
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  • charlenecharlene Member Posts: 555 Pioneering
    Would he recognise the Dxxk Hxxd, he is?
    When the going gets tough, the tough get going.
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  • charlenecharlene Member Posts: 555 Pioneering
    Lol, I am not sure I believe you.
    When the going gets tough, the tough get going.
  • whistleswhistles Member Posts: 1,603 Disability Gamechanger
    What puzzles me is if you read the forms, yes we all have.
    It says can you do to a task to an acceptable standard, in a reasonable time frame and repeat more than once- as someone with no health issues or difficulties.

    One arm would suggest not. I feel I need two hands to get the bloody shampoo out of the bottle, or is there an aid for that- seriously if yes please say so.
    I changed to soap because I can't use the shower gel bottles anymore.
    Do not follow me, I don't know where I am going.
  • wendy1966wendy1966 Member Posts: 32 Listener
    I kbow your plight . i struggle all the time with one half decent arm and one that dont work
  • charlenecharlene Member Posts: 555 Pioneering
    Whistles, I have problems getting shampoo out of bottle and need to use both hands.  Therefore I squeeze  the shampoo, onto my legs, then scope it up with good hand and then slap it on my hair. Is that an acceptable manner?
    When the going gets tough, the tough get going.
  • whistleswhistles Member Posts: 1,603 Disability Gamechanger
    Is using a hammer an aid? 
    I wonder if there are some that are easier than others.

    You can buy a portable shower but that still requires an extra pair of hands. 

    Do not follow me, I don't know where I am going.
  • joyclynjoyclyn Member Posts: 66 Courageous
    This  is a joke     I tho ught I was  starting to understand  Questions  obviously I am not .no fault of anyone  it's just  me   sorry 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,364 Disability Gamechanger
    Well just to clarify... 1) Pictures are not a bad idea but I was referring more to anecdotal examples. So, if you want to score points for bathing you need to explain why aids don’t help and the help you need from another person. You then need to tell a study about an incident which occurred when you were bathing and didn’t have that assistance. If you want points for cooking then explain about the aids you use but if you still need assistance then explain why and, again, give an example of something that happened because you didn’t have that assistance. 2) Whilst @Victoriad is right that an appeal starts from zero points so you could in theory lose your existing award I tend to wince when people say that because whilst it’s undoubtedly true that every MR or appeal carries a risk any adviser worth their salt should use their professional expertise to assess abd advise on how real the risk actually is. For some people, where it’s hard to see how they got their award, the risk could be high. For others, it could be negligible. 3) As far as “to an acceptable standard is” using two hands on shampoo @charlene would not score you any points for bathing. You’re not using an aid or appliance; a significant number of people use two hands on such bottles; I can’t see how using two hands would impact the standard of what you’re doing and there’s unlikeky to be any issues around safety, repetition of time.
  • wendy1966wendy1966 Member Posts: 32 Listener
    Yes i understand what you mean mike. But i need to go through each area i was pointed with what i think wrong and ezplain why i think it was and give an example should i also say im happy with the liw rate mobility.. Sorry all the questions .im just not very good at putting things togeather  . 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,364 Disability Gamechanger
    No need to apologise. What you’re proposing to do now is spot on.
  • charlenecharlene Member Posts: 555 Pioneering
    Hello Mikehuges. Fortunately I have the required points, I need.  Just a little bantering with whistles.

    however, I do use 2 hands as I have weakness in both hands and wrist.  Using both hands causes a great deal of pain in hands, wrist and arms.   Extra pain is caused when The bottle of shampoo, drops to the floor unopened and I try to retrieve it.  Also, I don't like using my legs as a soup dish. Instead of my shower being enjoyable I am left with negative feelings.  

    On another occasion, I couldn't get some glue out of a large tube, even using the thingy that you buy todo the job.  In the end, out of frustration, I grabbed a knife and split the tube open! 

    When the going gets tough, the tough get going.
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