PIP, DLA and AA
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PIP Query

JonGarlingeJonGarlinge Member Posts: 10 Listener
edited April 2018 in PIP, DLA and AA
Other than the point system for PIP does the decision maker take into account any other information/evidence from the consultation report?. The reason I am asking for is I have received a copy of the report PA4, and there are some discrepancies in this report to the actual meeting. Things like I drive daily [I don't leave the house] my car is parked approx 15 meters away from the house, [it's actually park 4 steps from my door lest then 3ft and I was not asked this question] and other discrepancies. According to this report I get 10 points for cares element and 10 points for mobility but I believe my mobility should have been higher. 
Can anyone help with this query?

Replies

  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    It can happen yes but highly unlikely, i'm afraid. It's very rare for them to go against the report, they usually award like for like.

    Once a decision has been made you can ask for the Mandatory Reconsideration and you have 1 month to do this. You can lose everything you already have as they will look at the whole award again. You'll need to put your request in writing stating what you disagree with and where you thing you should have been award those points.

    Only 20% of MR decisions change but over 65% of those who appear at their Tribunal have a decision in their favour. It's a very long process and some are waiting a year for their hearing, it all depends on the backlog in your area.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    Assessors frequently lie in their reports.  If you think your current award is 'safe', then go for MR and tribunal if necessary.  
  • Lasian_ScopeLasian_Scope Member Posts: 660 Pioneering
    Hi @JonGarlinge

    We have, unfortunately, heard from others about having incorrect information in their reports. As mentioned in the other comments, you can ask for a mandatory reconsideration if you feel that you should be getting more points based on their criteria.

    If you do want to request a mandatory reconsideration, we have some useful information about appealing a DWP benefits decision. You may find the following video on mandatory reconsiderations of interest:

     

     

    I hope this helps! If you have any other questions, please do get in touch.

  • JonGarlingeJonGarlinge Member Posts: 10 Listener
    Thank you, i am already getting myself prepared as there are a number of inconsistencies in the [copy] assessors report. Things like lifting my right leg to 70 degrees while lying down, never laid down during the assessment, being able to walk more than 40 meters even though she stated during the assessment i was struggling just walking down the corridor to the room and other little niggles such as i drive daily even though it was stated i am a recluse, i don't leave my bedroom only for GP or hospital appointments or  my car being parked 15 meters away when it is literally 3 [possibly 4] steps from my door, but i was never even asked any questions about my car or where i parked. There were many other assumptions made or statements i the [copy] of the assessors report that i as never asked during the assessment.   
  • dee4848dee4848 Member Posts: 218 Pioneering
    edited April 2018
    @JonGarlinge Hi was you getting high rate mobility before and also was you getting your car on the motability scheme?
  • JonGarlingeJonGarlinge Member Posts: 10 Listener
    edited April 2018
    I was, [still on DLA until decision is made]. I was on higher rate mobility, indefinitely, and I have a mobility car.
  • dee4848dee4848 Member Posts: 218 Pioneering
    edited April 2018
    See this could be a problem for most people  at review stages, saying that they don't go out only to medical appointments, but they have exchanged their money award for the car , I have read quite a lot of people on here saying they don't go out of the door but yet their so worried that they have lost their cars. Please don't take this personally at all but the DWP will also look at this if this claiment doesn't go anywhere why have they chosen a car when the money could be used for taxis to occasional appointments .so I'm thinking that because you have said you don't go anywhere other than appointments they already was thinking about the car 
  • JonGarlingeJonGarlinge Member Posts: 10 Listener
    No offence taken.... when I say I don't leave the house I mean in terms of socialising. My medical appointments are very frequent and I have to travel from Yorkshire to London for 3 of them at least 4 times a month, believe it or not driving is much cheaper then getting the train at £50 [for petrol] compared to £176 for the train [off peak and with a disabled person railcard] I also do work 8 hrs over 2 days and rely on the car to get me to and from work. Luckily the Job I do limits my contact with people which I suffer anxiety and panic attacks over. The DWP are aware of this so it's not like my car sits on a drive gathering dust, with my current car has done 25 thousand miles over 3 years which is not bad. 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,369 Disability Gamechanger
    Thank you, i am already getting myself prepared as there are a number of inconsistencies in the [copy] assessors report. Things like lifting my right leg to 70 degrees while lying down, never laid down during the assessment, being able to walk more than 40 meters even though she stated during the assessment i was struggling just walking down the corridor to the room and other little niggles such as i drive daily even though it was stated i am a recluse, i don't leave my bedroom only for GP or hospital appointments or  my car being parked 15 meters away when it is literally 3 [possibly 4] steps from my door, but i was never even asked any questions about my car or where i parked. There were many other assumptions made or statements i the [copy] of the assessors report that i as never asked during the assessment.   
    That’s all fine but disproving a HCP report just gives it less weight. What is your actual case for qualifying for PIP and what’s the supporting evidence?
  • dee4848dee4848 Member Posts: 218 Pioneering
    @JonGarlinge Ah well that's another story , because you said you was recluse and don't leave your bedroom I looked and thought on that , but now you have said more into why you need your car I understand ..Good luck 
  • JonGarlingeJonGarlinge Member Posts: 10 Listener
    Its not about disproving the report, the report in general is fine to a point, it's about getting them to look at certain aspects of the report which have been written without being checked. The assessor has provided answers to questions that were not asked and made assumptions about other things with out any evidence. in other areas she has totally overlooked specialist reports and evidence. I just want the decision to be made on all the evidence.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,369 Disability Gamechanger
    You need to complain to the assessment provider. Outside if that there is no way for you to determine which bits are more relevant.
  • markyboymarkyboy Member Posts: 374 Pioneering
    Hi sometimes it is better to accept points you have been awarded as you could lose what you have got,  i appealed my award 18 months ago and after the first tribunal was set aside i am still waiting for a new hearing date and the award i am contesting will be reviewed at the end of this year 
    The DWP will drag their feet at every opportunity and appeals are taking 2 years in some cases to get a result.
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering
    edited April 2018
    JonGarlinge,

    As others have commented it's very common for there to be inconsistencies in the report. It's worth asking for an MR and complaining (to the assessment company) too. Unfortunately there's a backlog in the complaints system but don't be put off as it is still worth letting them know (eg if you have to take the complaint further to the Independent Complaints Examiner you will find there is a very long delay).

    For now I would concentrate on getting your award right - although markyboy is right that the tribunal will look at the whole award (and so it is possible to lose points), if you are confident that the points you have been awarded are correct, then I would go for it to get the extra ones you believe you should also have. It's very unlikely that your decision will be changed at MR stage but it is possible and also, it's a stage you have to go through.

    If you can, be precise about what points you should have got and why. Point out the inconsistencies in the report and explain what evidence you have to the contrary (even if this is just based on examples from your everyday life). Although it will take a long time to get to a tribunal, you do have a high chance of success at appeal. 

    Do complain meanwhile because these reports are simply not good enough. Information which hasn't even been asked of you shouldn't be in the report. As you say, decisions should be based on evidence. If you haven't already, do talk to Motability about their options for you to get some financial help as you are transferring from DLA.

    Good luck. Please don't give up - and do talk to your MP about what has happened, if you can, as we need to keep up the pressure to change the assessments. If the loss of the car is going to put your job at risk, this is a political issue as well as a personal one so it is worth getting your MP involved.

    Will
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • JonGarlingeJonGarlinge Member Posts: 10 Listener
    Thank you very much Will. I'll follow your advice and hopefully things will work out. It's just a shame that, if the DWP are facing such a bug backlog of complaints they [or the government] have not clicked that something must be wrong. Surely the MR and appeals must be costing them a small fortune which could have been put to better use.
  • BenefitsTrainingCoBenefitsTrainingCo Member Posts: 2,692 Pioneering
    Definitely Jon. The government are not short of reports telling them that things are not working, including from committees of MPs and experts. Sadly, so far they have not accepted the case for change, which I find incredible - that's why we have to keep pressing them. You're absolutely right that the MR system and the appeals service  must cost a huge amount and it would be cheaper to pay people correctly from the beginning.

    Will
    The Benefits Training Co:
    Paul Bradley
    Michael Chambers
    Will Hadwen
    Sarah Hayle
    Maria Solomon
    David Stickland
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    The government claim that a high percentage of PIP claimants are satisfied with the PIP process :o.  I think that their methodology must be flawed to say the least.
  • JonGarlingeJonGarlinge Member Posts: 10 Listener
    I've had my decision through for PIP, and have been awarded the standard rate for both care and mobility, however i am appealing the mobility element [i know, they look at everything] and when i spoke to the DWP to request a mandatory reconsideration, i questioned how they came to this decision and  was told that the decision on the mobility element was partly reached because i have a manual car. Can they do that? I mean that feels quite unfair. 
    I've also found out that the decision maker has stated that the decision was based on information provided by my consultants and general practitioner, however, the lady at the DWP has stated that they no longer approach an individuals practitioners, apparently this is left to the applicant even though the application form states they will contact an individuals practitioners.
  • YadnadYadnad Member - under moderation Posts: 2,862 Disability Gamechanger
    I've had my decision through for PIP, and have been awarded the standard rate for both care and mobility, however i am appealing the mobility element [i know, they look at everything] and when i spoke to the DWP to request a mandatory reconsideration, i questioned how they came to this decision and  was told that the decision on the mobility element was partly reached because i have a manual car. Can they do that? I mean that feels quite unfair. 
    I have had that thrown at me three times so far as being the main reason why the Care element went from Enhanced to Standard and the Mobility element from Enhanced to nothing.
    Their explanation to me is that if I am able to drive a manual car albeit a Motability one, than assumptions can be made as regards concentration, planning a route,  good movement of legs, arms and hands etc.
    At the end of the day it all depends which descriptors you are relying on - do they contradict the ability to drive a manual car  both from a mental health and physical health point of view?
    In my MR I explained (again) that I don't drive, my wife drives the car as I had to hand in my drivers licence years ago to the DVLA. due to medication issues and an unstable mental health condition (which the DWP refuse to accept).
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,369 Disability Gamechanger
    Worth checking with your GP whether anything was requested. It certainly isn’t done routinely as it was with DLA. 

    As far as manual cars are concerned this is precisely why face to face advice is needed. Claimants need to play devils advocate with their claim pack and, on the one hand, get in as many anecdotes about the impact of their health as possible but at the same time understand that everything is open to being interpreted in more than one way unless you literally spell out why it shouldn’t be. 


  • JonGarlingeJonGarlinge Member Posts: 10 Listener
    Quick question, I have been awarded standard rate care allowance and mobility, I have went through the mandatory reconsideration as I do not believe they have taken into account my mobility needs, but they have basically left everything as is. I am now going to appeal the decision but can anyone tell me, will I still get paid what I have been awarded until my appeal is heard or not? I have tried to get an answer from the DWP but they are very fague. 
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    You will continue to be paid your standard rates until your appeal hearing date, when the tribunal will make a new award - either to continue your standard rates or to increase one or both to enhanced.

    If at the hearing the tribunal actually wanted to reduce your current award (quite rare but it does happen on occasion) almost certainly they would ask if you wanted to withdraw your appeal.  If you did so, you would keep your current award.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,369 Disability Gamechanger
    Depends entirely on your current award. If it is due to expire before the hearing date then that will happen but will be nothing to do with the fact you have appealed.
  • madquasimodomadquasimodo Member Posts: 130 Courageous
    It's all too common to hear errors in HCP reports and DM making errors, my partner was confined to bed after an operation, the HCP did the assessment and no medical as my partner could not move, the DM made the award and stated "Due to your musculoskeletal examination and assessment I disagree and think you can"
    Something that clearly didn't happen, sadly there is a blame system, the DWP only make their award based on the HCP report, the HCP do not make the award we only do as requested and fill in the form.

    Truth is you have to get a lot of evidence and try and show how each descriptor effects you, I have done both with short and long answers and I am unable to decide if either help. I have seen it said assessor don't try and trick you, but instead of how far can you walk, we were asked "How long can you stand" that turned into "We decided you can walk 200m or more"

    If your not happy with what's on the HCP report complain to who ever it was that did the assessment, ask for a MR and be prepared to go to tribunal because less than 20% get changed.

    I spent 40mins on the phone when the MR was done, explained some of the errors, still no change, went to Tribunal got enhanced PIP/lower rate mobility as we sat down, the doctor asked if my partner wanted to try for enhance mobility, she did and was what could only be called interrogated for 15min and awarded full mobility.
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