PIP, DLA and AA
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PIP Tribunal - Awarded less than expected.

EvaEva Member Posts: 5 Listener
Hi

I'm new to this site so please bear with me and sorry in advance for length of post. I had my PIP Tribunal this week after DWP awarded me 0 points for both daily living and mobility for my uncontrolled Epilepsy which I have had for over 25 years. I've never claimed DLA and this was my first PIP claim. I've waited over a year for the hearing. 

DWP's final decision said they were prepared to offer me 12 points enhanced mobility but hadn't as I had believed I was entitled to the enhanced daily living element. The Tribunal was awful. The panel seemed to give more weight to DWP's evidence despite being provided with my entire medical records and made inappropriate comments. They felt I did not require care as I study (I have a non-medical helper at all times), that I was previously capable of employment until my seizures were too bad and that I was suitably dressed with hair done? 

I was helped prior to arrival with these things as in the days leading up to the Tribunal I'd had multiple seizures which had caused me to injure myself but I did not have the opportunity to say about the dressing element although they were informed I had been unwell with seizures. 

They awarded me the same as DWP were offering in the end - enhanced mobility, 12 points but 7 points for daily living as they said 'I did not require care'. My grounds of appeal cited recent case law and that my Epilepsy affects me for greater than 50% of my days so I am unsure if they have looked at this.

I asked for a Statement of Reasons and the Judge became rather angry saying she could not give it, I would have to write off for one but in doing so my award could be taken away along with backpay and DWP could appeal. Could anyone please advise on what to do as I don't have any law centres near me. Many thanks. 

Replies

  • susan48susan48 Member Posts: 2,229 Disability Gamechanger
    Sorry you’v had such an awful time

    maybe @mikehughescq or @CockneyRebel can help with your question.

    Take care
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    I don't think your award could be taken away just because you have asked asked for a statement of reasons. I assume the judge meant that an upper tier tribunal could remove your award if you were to appeal to one.

    I hope that @BenefitsTrainingCo will answer your questions.
  • EvaEva Member Posts: 5 Listener
    Thanks @susan48. Any advice would be appreciated as I'm torn at the moment. 
  • EvaEva Member Posts: 5 Listener
    Hi @Matilda. I was unsure how to interpret it as was my companion. When I tried to ask 'how can I have no daily living element as I need that in order to use the mobility to leave my home - if I can leave the house? ', she just became more abrasive so I said thank you and left. 
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,978 Disability Gamechanger
    It can easily be the case that your medical records do not necessarily say anything which would support a case for specific points for PIP. Similarly, your epilepsy may impact you more than 50% of the time but did you link it to specific activities and particular points? It’s also an assumption that because you didn’t get what you hoped for that DWP evidence was preferred. It could simply have been the case that your evidence didn’t tick the boxes for the specific points you would have needed. DL for uncontrolled epilepsy is not straight forward as only a small number of activities talk about a need for supervision and allow you to bring in the safety aspect.

    All that said:

    1) You are perfectly within your rights to request an SOR and ROP at the hearing and the judge was wrong to refuse. Few take it well when you ask to their face though. It’s not a tactic I would ever employ unless invited to do so by a judge.

    2) A tribunal should always offer you time to pursue a point at the end when they check whether everyone has said what they need to say. A representative would have ensured that happened.

    3) What the tribunal were saying was that in pursuing your claim further they were just about happy to endorse the DWP offer but thought you were lucky to have it on the evidence. You should take that seriously and get some face to face advice about assessing your correct entitlement. If we know your area we could advise on where to get advice from. 

    4) Your question about needing DL to take advantage of M would suggest to most tribunals that you haven’t understood what PIP is about. Plenty of people get one component but not the either despite having issues which impact both. It’s about the points and nothing else. Making it sound like it’s about money is always going to antagonise a tribunal who don’t want nor need to deal with the reality that it often is. 

    5) Regardless of the above you should write for an SOR and ROP within the month of your tribunal decision. Just doing that will not impact the award you currently have. Nor will applying for leave to appeal to the upper tribunal on a point of law. 





  • EvaEva Member Posts: 5 Listener
    Thanks @mikehughescq. My Grounds of Appeal specifically with each activity stated why I could not do things in a reasonable, reliable and safe manner and I stated what points I believed applied as opposed to the initial 0 in each case by DWP. At no time during the Tribunal was reference made to these Grounds by the panel - only the DWP bundle. 

    I had no official representation on the day, just a family friend as local advice centres said that they did not offer a service for such. They advised if I did not get what I was entitled to, or understand to request the SoR which was my reason for doing so at the end. 

    I live in Northants. I have already contacted CAB and other local advice places but to no avail. Other places say I am out of their catchment area to help unless it is a UT matter then I may get legal aid for them to help? 

    I think my main worry was it was made to sound by applying for a SoR, I could lose my entitlement with one year's back pay which is rather substantial. In addition, if I were to obtain it, the lack of resource to help me ascertain if any errors of law have occurred. 
  • Rickyboy123Rickyboy123 Member Posts: 20 Listener
    Hello I went to my tribunal for pip yesterday and I had my result back I had 7 points on daily living and 0 on mobility but before I went there my original points was 2 daily living 4 mobility they took points away from mobility there tribunal can they do that I'm not happy ? 
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    edited November 2018
    @Rickyboy123

    A tribunal can take points away.  You can ask for a statement of reasons why they awarded what they did.  And show this to CAB our local authority welfare rights to see if judge made an error of law - in which case you could appeal to an upper tribunal.

    You can make a new claim for PIP as soon as you like.
  • Rickyboy123Rickyboy123 Member Posts: 20 Listener
    Yea I think there is a error cause capita awarded 4 points on mobility and 2 on daily living now I got 7 daily living 0 mobility I'm happy with the 7 but the 4 that got took away and 2 should of stayed the same if capita granted me 4 and 2 they ovousaly had evidence so the court was wrong there higher than capita they shouldn't of took the points away as I do struggle with mobility are my right what I'm saying plus capita are in the wrong cause my health professional wrote to them saying if you need more evidence he will write more but capita never emailed or asked so are my in right or are they 
  • Rickyboy123Rickyboy123 Member Posts: 20 Listener
    Since 2016 my health professional said they never wrote to him asking 
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    If they hadn't have taken the 4 points away and awarded you zero extra points on mobility then you still wouldn't have had enough points for an award because you need at least 8, as you only received 7 in the daily living part then that's still 1 point short of the award.

    You need to request the statement of reasons and record of proceedings from HMCTS within 28 days. From this you'll need to find an error in law in making the decision. With this error it's the end of the road for this claim, i'm afraid.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    Yea I think there is a error cause capita awarded 4 points on mobility and 2 on daily living now I got 7 daily living 0 mobility I'm happy with the 7 but the 4 that got took away and 2 should of stayed the same if capita granted me 4 and 2 they ovousaly had evidence so the court was wrong there higher than capita they shouldn't of took the points away as I do struggle with mobility are my right what I'm saying plus capita are in the wrong cause my health professional wrote to them saying if you need more evidence he will write more but capita never emailed or asked so are my in right or are they 
    Personally I can't see the issue here. A Tribunal has decided that you are not entitled to any award for care or mobility
    It doesn't matter if you received 4 points or 0 points you will not get an award. For all intents and purposes if you received 7 points each for care and mobility the end result will not change.

    You need a minimum of 8 points to get a standard award and 12 or more for an enhanced award.

  • Rickyboy123Rickyboy123 Member Posts: 20 Listener
    Yea I know but if they didn't take my 2 pints away from daily living I would of had 9 in daily living and 4 on mobility sorry if I confused you guys
  • Rickyboy123Rickyboy123 Member Posts: 20 Listener
    That's what I'm trying to say I know you need 8 but if they kept the 2 and my 7 I had now I would of had it
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    You don't go to a Tribunal with points already in the bag as you seem to think. The tribunal can decide something totally different and are not governed by what the DWP awarded first time around.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    That's what I'm trying to say I know you need 8 but if they kept the 2 and my 7 I had now I would of had it
    Are you saying they took 2 points off a descriptor that you scored points in previously? Which ever way it is then as stated you need to request the statement of reasons and record of proceedings within 28 days. If that error in law hasn't been made then there's nothing further you can do.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • Rickyboy123Rickyboy123 Member Posts: 20 Listener
    Thanks and yea
  • CockneyRebelCockneyRebel Member Posts: 5,257 Disability Gamechanger
    As you don't have an award in payment, If you still think you should qualify then there is no waiting time to put in a new claim
    Be all you can be, make  every day count. Namaste
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 5,978 Disability Gamechanger
    But why put in a new claim? What would be different? Unless presented very differently the outcome would likely be the same and any award following appeal on the 1st claim would then be time limited.
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