PIP Q13. Planning & Following Journeys — Scope | Disability forum
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PIP Q13. Planning & Following Journeys

Sheilamoose Member Posts: 17 Listener

How do I answer this question?

My mobility is now so bad that I cannot get around at all. –but– Before it got so bad I hardly went out at all anyway as I do not feel safe outside by myself. Everything is/was purchased online because I panic if I go into a shop. Husband has to do all grocery shopping as just the thought of a trip round Tesco brings me out in a cold sweat.

Medication (Morphine) makes me feel drowsy and disorientated and (Nitrazepam) makes me feel hung over till midday. I cannot work out directions to anywhere most of the time – I even have to take a screenshot now when I book a doctor’s appointment online so my husband can check I have the correct time in my head (after getting it wrong many times and turning up late/wrong day). The only time I can think clearly is between 4pm & 5pm when the morphine is wearing off, just before the next dose is due.

I (obviously) do not drive on this medication but I cannot follow maps. My husband has bought a satnav as he got fed up with me navigating with a road map and getting him lost!

I am terrified of small dogs. A couple of years ago I had an altercation with a man on our seafront. His little bulging-eyed dog ran up to me & snarled – I thought it might bite me, so I kicked it! He said he was going to get me arrested (till I pointed out a byelaw that says ‘dogs must be on leads on the prom’) & the dog was obviously ‘not under control’ if it did that anyway. Before I lost my mobility I used to run in the opposite direction if I saw a small dog off a lead coming towards me.

I had a stroke a few years ago & now have memory/concentration problems. I cannot use public transport now –but– when I could (until just over a year ago) I was ok until a stranger talked to me at the bus stop, or sat next to me on the bus. I used to get off the bus at the next stop and catch the next bus (home if the next one was full). In the end my husband had to take me to the hospital etc in the car because of my paranoia.

I will not answer the phone if I do not recognise the number; or talk to anyone I do not know over the phone. I was scammed a few years ago, and have been paranoid about talking to strangers on the phone ever since, so if I was out by myself and got ‘lost’, I would have to phone a family member for them to ring a taxi for me or to arrange for someone to pick me up. I was so panicky about claiming PIP (because of the telephone call) I had to take several deep breaths while my husband phoned the number and passed the phone over to me. He stayed by my side ready to take over if I started to really panic and try to put the phone down.

It’s a difficult question to answer because, if I was able to walk around with no problems, I would have the problems above. Is the DWP talking about an ‘actual’ journey or a ‘hypothetical’ one?

I am on DLA High Mob/Care atm. Am praying I do not lose my mobility, as cannot face a Tribunal. Can you still get Attendance Allowance, or is that transferring to PIP as well? Just asking, as will be 65 next month – money is not so much, but wondering whether it would be less hassle to claim than having a fight with PIP?


  • whistles
    whistles Member Posts: 1,583 Disability Gamechanger

    Its actual journeys you would give them examples and evidence for now.
    If you are not mobile anymore and are not planning and following any journeys anymore, not sure how this applies if your answer is going be hypothetical. 
    If you situation has changed you may score higher on the physically not able to walk?
    Do not follow me, I don't know where I am going.
  • Sheilamoose
    Sheilamoose Member Posts: 17 Listener
    Thank you for clarification. Had the feeling that unable to plan & follow a journey because of some 'other' reason wouldn't count...

    Will get answers (on separate pages) printed off to check late afternoon when I can think clearly again. Was surprised DWP automatically gave a 2 week extension without asking - they said it could take up to 2 months for them to get copies of 3 EMP reports from DLA.

    Fingers crossed
  • Sheilamoose
    Sheilamoose Member Posts: 17 Listener
    My friend has read my answer to Q13 & pointed out that I have ‘good’ days as well as ‘bad’ (about 2-3 ‘good’ & 3-4 ‘bad’ per week) – but definitely more ‘bad’ than good. Sometimes I have a few weeks of ‘bad’ days before I have a ‘good’ one. Have been ‘mulling over’ this form for the last couple of days... I was previously only thinking in terms of ‘bad’ days (old DLA habit). Am beginning to wonder whether I have been approaching this whole form from the wrong angle?

    Q13: On a ‘good’ day (provided I was accompanied by a companion, so no-one sat next to me) I would be able to undertake a (short) journey; as there would be someone there to help me get up. I would still need help with planning the journey (working out less-crowded bus times; pre-booking train seats, taxis etc and planning it all out) as I have a phobia about talking on the phone to anyone unknown to me. I cannot do this myself on the laptop either because I am only able to function mentally to any degree between around 4-5pm when the medication is wearing off, before next dose is due. The rest of the day is a mental ‘fog’ when I am unable to think clearly and have no concentration whatsoever. I am very forgetful and need continually reminding about things.

    I (should) be able to follow a list of directions during that hour (provided I did not lose my place and forget where I was on the list), but not during the rest of the day. Some of the listed side-effects of my medication are: “Feeling drowsy, sleepy or dizzy (Do not drive if affected); Feeling confused or disorientated”.

    Q14: On a ‘bad’ day I struggle to walk any further than 14-17 metres before I have to stop due to significant pain (with crutches as I would trip & fall over with a walking stick). After resting for 5-10 minutes I might be able to do another 5-10 metres before I am utterly exhausted & that’s me ‘totally zapped/exhausted’ for the rest of the day.

    On a ‘good’ day I might manage 30-40 metres before I have to stop due to significant pain (with crutches as would trip & fall over with a walking stick). After resting for 5-10 minutes I might be able to do another 8-10 metres before I am utterly exhausted & that’s me ‘totally zapped/exhausted’ for the rest of the day.

    Would it be better to approach this whole form in the above manner i.e. what I can do on a ‘good’ -v- ‘bad’ day? (rather than what I can do on the majority of days (‘bad’ days)

    Sorry if I am being such a pain, but I do want to try to get this form right first time.

    P.S. Sincere thanks to my friend for her continued help & support with typing, splitting my assisted dictation technology into the sections/questions for me (and making sense of it). A true friend indeed!

  • Yadnad
    Yadnad Posts: 2,856 Connected
    DO NOT put on the the form
    ” on a good day I can.......”
    if you can’t do it then you can’t do it.

    Not to sure that that is the right way to approach it.
    Having days that are variable would mean that on some good days you can...... but on other days you can't..... The test as I understand it is that you can't do something if it is for more than 50% of the days.
    Saying that you can't implies that you can never.

    As an example from my issues. I can get into a shower and wash myself on good days (2 days a week) for the other 5 days of the week I need help and assistance.
    That isn't the same as saying I can't do it. 
  • Yadnad
    Yadnad Posts: 2,856 Connected
    edited April 2018
    It’s entirely up to you but I personally would word it differently.
    once you say I can do......
    then they take it as you can and that is it

    But then you don't want to go down the road of over playing, exaggerating or over stating your difficulties as that is benefit fraud. It's like saying that you can never do it which is untrue or fill out the claim form on the basis of the worst day possible 
  • whistles
    whistles Member Posts: 1,583 Disability Gamechanger
    Fluctuating conditions are marked differently.

    I would write the form based on my worst day but this isn't going to the case seven days a week.
    I did both self tests on a variety of days which all gave me different scores, only occasionally did I score standard.
    Do not follow me, I don't know where I am going.
  • Yadnad
    Yadnad Posts: 2,856 Connected
    Good, as long as you give explanations to the DWP that your issues are variable and that you have good, not so good and bad days you will be fine.

    So many people I hear about try to put over to the DWP that their worst day is every day when it isn't in the hope that saying that will give them a better chance of an award.

  • ChrisG
    ChrisG Member Posts: 23 Connected
    The whole point of introducing PIP is to reduce the number of people that can qualify for benefits.  It seems like they are making as many claims as possible go to tribunal as in many cases the stress of going will be too much for the person and decide not to fight it. They use experienced people to find any possible reason to deny you points.  The tribunal is often the only way to get a fair result.

    The tribunal will look at the evidence and decide if what you claim is credible.  

    It is quite right I’m my opinion that if you can drive then you must have certain abilities in order to be on the road in the first place.  There’s no point in lying and saying that you can’t understand symbols for example, when you have to understand road symbols in order to drive.  Or saying you do not have the strength to use standard cutlery yet can manage to steer a car that requires more strength.  These types of lies or exaggerations will be picked up on by a tribunal and your credibility will be down the drain.  Just be honest and if you are entitled to it you will get it.  Some people may feel like they should be entitled but still not meet the criteria.  

  • clarabelle
    clarabelle Member Posts: 71 Courageous
    There is some case law on this on the pip info site
    The question on the form doesn't reflect the legislation: so it's plan, follow navigate. 
    The question is in relation to two criteria - sensory impairment and mental health. 
    If you can't use public transport you should automatically get the points. 
    I'm assuming you can't drive.  A sat nav does not count as an aid for navigation - but another person does. 
    Familiar and unfamiliar journies are irrelvant really as case law proves that a familiar journey doesn't have to be local.  
    Don't know if that helps.  
  • debbiedo49
    debbiedo49 Member Posts: 2,904 Disability Gamechanger
    What you have explained about is what happens most of the time. Whats wrong with what you have written? 


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