Appeal

debbiedo49

I received a bundle of papers in a brown envelope this morning from dwp containing the paperwork for my pip application and appeal. There’s a letter with it. Is that all it is? I thought I would get a date with it? 

Jurph

Hi! We've spoken before - I think we started our appeals at the same time.

Both Fibro zero points if I remember correctly?

I think the tribunal date is told to you about 3 weeks before it happens. 

I'm still waiting for my bundle - nearly 6 weeks now! I did ring HMCTS and the said the wait in my area in 44weeks!

debbiedo49

Yeah I remember . At the time I was undiagnosed with fibro just chronic pain but now I’m diagnosed I’ve got a gp letter to support my application. I had a sneaky suspicion I would be getting my bundle but don’t know what happens next. I can’t even look at it right now. I get help from SAMH and we started talking about me preparing for my hearing at my request so I’m ready for it as opposed to taken by surprise. I haven’t started yet but this will give me the kick in the but I need. So I just wait for a date now? Hope you get your bundle soon. 

Jurph

Afraid so. It's out of the DWPs hands and into those of HMCTS.

I haven't been able to find an organisation to help unfortunately. Looks like I'm going it alone.

debbiedo49

Have you tried citizens advice or money advice team? Ive been using council money advice team to deal with all the paper work. Though the worker I have is so patronizing I donr know why they are in the job. So Ive just asked for someone else.

whistles

Good luck with it all.
Just found this thread. 

Did you guys get any points from the MR to work with?

debbiedo49

I was told that you usually get a date in 6 weeks is that correct? Not sure who "you guys" are? @whistles

Waylay

It can be very useful to prepare a short statement and send it to the the Tribunal. Good guide at https://www.advicenow.org.uk/guides/how-win-pip-appeal

Read the whole thing, but for a Tribunal statement, see 15.

I know how the DWP, ATOS, etc. can get to you! I photocopied some of my assessment report and set it on fire. However, remember what's most important: THAT YOU GET MORE POINTS.

1. Hide your anger, and be polite. The Tribunal members are professionals, and they expect you to be.

2. Only use points of law if you're absolutely certain of what they mean/ have legal advice. Remember, one of the members of the Tribunal is a judge. He/she knows the law.

3. Go through each activity and figure out what descriptor you think you should get. Make sure that you check the definitions of the words, too. The DWP defines all kinds of common words to mean very specific things (e.g. What a "simple meal" means). Also keep in mind the 50% rule, and the reliability rule. Both important!

4. For each activity, write down why you should get it. Remember, "I have diabetes and Ebola" isn't what they're looking for. They want to hear how your function is limited: "I need supervision to safely cook a simple meal. I have diabetes, so I have to limit my sugar intake, or have these symptoms. However, because the Ebola has dissolved my brain, my memory is really bad, and I forget that I have diabetes between 1 and 3 times an hour. I need my partner to supervise me, and keep track of how much sugar I'm putting into my meal. 

5. Link it to your further evidence. A letter from your diabetes nurse confirming that you have diabetes is a bit useful, but if she then describes how often you get high blood sugar, what the symptoms are, and why it's dangerous, that's much better. 

6. If the assessor / Case Manager has used a particular piece of "evidence" to deny you points, try to prove them wrong

7. If your assessment report and decision are *really* bad, summarise the major reasons why, and prove them w/ your further evidence/forms. Ask the Tribunal to set aside the report and the Decision because they're unfit. Don't list every tiny mistake in the report, and don't point out spelling errors. The Tribunal members apparently don't get paid for the time they spend reading, so keep your statement to the most important points. It's much better to object to *facts* that are wrong, than to *opinions*:
Fact: "The assessor said that I wash my elephant every Saturday in the back garden, so I can clearly wash and bathe myself. In fact, Hunk is a mammoth (see letter from vet) and doesn't need to be washed".

Opinion: "The claimant looked well-rested and well-nourished, so she can clearly prepare and cook a meal and take nourishment by herself." What can you say to this?  "I'm a zombie, so much of my body has rotted and fallen off, and zombies don't sleep?" Opinions are subjective, so arguing about them isn't worth it unless you have objective proof.

Can't think of anything else ATM...

Jurph

@Waylay I've gone past the despair stage and into the laughing at everything stange. That last bit tickled me!

@whistles they stuck with 0 points at MR on mine.

My whole decision has been based on opinion. My bundle arrived this morning - the DWP did contact my GP. He was honest so put that he 'did not know' how my daily life is affected but did describe the individual problems I have (not being able to bare weight on left wrist for example). 

Not once has DWP referred to my GPs evidence or mental health assessment report. They used my f2f assessment for everything. I can drive therefore I can bathe etc. I look well nourished therefore I can cook etc.

I struggled with a couple of exercises at the F2F (which I noted was on a good day!) The assessor wrote that I didn't have any trouble with anything.

Fibromyalgia is so hard to prove. I certainly feel the DWP think I'm making the whole thing up.

Sam_Alumni

We have some videos about going to tribunal that might help?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tIHjSpNNbQo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WEvbFVlQOc&t=6s

Waylay

@Jurph Does. Not. Swear. Argh! 
MRs rarely change their decision unfortunately, ignoring your evidence is par for the course, and basing everything on stupid opinions happens all the time. You're not alone, if that helps. 

Appealing to a Tribunal, if you feel you can, is the next step. Claimants are winning 69% of them. 

*Hugs*

Jurph

Thanks @Waylay I will try. I got my bundle this morning. Going to enlist some help.

It's so hard to prove a disability that doesn't show on any tests!

Waylay

I know. 3 MH conditions, and chronic pain.  

Jurph

My GP didn't mention MH in the information he sent. Even though he referred me to CBT ?

debbiedo49

Change your gp

Jurph

I liked him. He was good, just didn't give all information.

He retired last month. I saw a new one who was horrible! 

debbiedo49

Well it’s hard to get a rapport with a gp these days as they move on regularly. I’m my case my gp was good on the m h side for putting down in writing how it affects me but he did ask me about it and typed it up as part of an appointment. I told him what I had put down in my application. But he worded it well. My issue was the lack of info on my chronic pain then fibro was diagnosed by another gp. So it took 2 g p s to sort my pip stuff.

debbiedo49

Anyone know how long for the meeting date please?

debbiedo49

I got a random voicemail last thing Friday afternoon from welfare rights team, who wanted to arrange a meeting prior to the appeal/tribunal on the 24th May. Its a new person, and Ive to contact them on Tuesday ( I think the day before!) I didnt get any letter. WRO have authority to deal with Pip but usually I get a letter too. My dad passed away on Monday and I havent told them yet. I cant go through this at the moment and I dont know what to do.

debbiedo49

Maybe @Username_removed could advise me please? The WRO doesnt know me or my case.

debbiedo49

Yes thanks @Username_removed
Firstly,
unfortunately the first WRO I saw was basically saying folks with mental health issues won’t get pip so I’m wasting my time. I was told otherwise by my mental health rep who suported me in my decision to ask for a different WRO. I actually felt she must be on commission from atos! (joke!) 
Secondly my conditions at the start of this process were mental health issues and chronic pain issues. The fibro was diagnosed during the process so all the symptoms came under chronic pain and how both these conditions affect me day to day. 
Thirdly, it would seem I have no time to prepare for a meeting or for my rep to familiarise themselves with my issues or for me to ascertain their capabilities to represent me. My mental health rep wanted to meet up with all of us to get prepared for the meeting and plan for the best outcome. This way it feels completely messy and unprofessional. 
Fourthly, I don’t feel I can do this right now so can I ask for a new date due to bereavement please?