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Will I be judged for walking into my tribunal?

CazannCazann Member Posts: 88 Pioneering
edited May 2018 in PIP, DLA and AA
Hi all
I have been turned down for PIP after being on DLA for 13 years. I know that DLA and PIP are not the same but do they judge the amount of walking you do..ie; walking outside and inside, as the same?  When I claimed DLA, I was told that it didn't matter how much you walked inside but it was how you can walk outside on uneven surfaces. I am in the process of going to tribunal (Just sent off my appeal) but when walking into the Tribunal building, would they take that into account? Anyone know how this works?

Thanks
.Cazann

Replies

  • Pippa_AlumniPippa_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 5,851 Disability Gamechanger
    Hi @Cazann, sorry to hear this- it must have been really frustrating for you to hear this outcome. 

    Hopefully our other members who've been through the process will be able to advise here, but in the meantime, here is Scope's guidance on appealing DWP decisions.
  • MarkinsuttonMarkinsutton Member Posts: 83 Pioneering
    my experience is yes, it doesn't matter where you walked just the fact you have walked. I also hear of cases that even after people got PIP it has been taken away from them because on a good day they have been seen walking and have been asked to pay it back. It seems that we are always been observed to see if we are lying about what we can or can't do 
  • markyboymarkyboy Member Posts: 368 Pioneering
    To get points for the mobility moving around descriptor you have to be using an aid either wheelchair or walking frame to get the necessary points
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    The DWP's own PIP Handbook states that walking should be measured outdoors using pavements and kerbs.  But assessors and tribunals informally assess indoor walking.

    Criteria for PIP points:

    0-20m aided = 12 points = enhanced

    20m - 50m aided = 10 points = standard

    20m - 50m  unaided = 8 points = standard

    These are all before you need to stop and rest for a few minutes before you continue.

    Walking aids are sticks, crutches, walking frames, or even help from another person with walking.  i do not think wheelchairs count as walking aids as of course these do not help you walk.  Moving around points are only for walking around, not for getting around on wheels.

    A tribunal awarded me enhanced mobility because i can only walk up to 20m and need a stick to do so

    Tribunal panel are not allowed formally to watch you walk but of course they will see how you walk in and out of the hearing room. They asked me a lot of questions about my walking, not only outdoors but also indoors, such as in shops.

    At tribunal if you are asked for how long can you walk, always relate time to distance, e.g. say that it takes you X seconds or X minutes to walk Y meters.  Never give just a time as the questioners might think you can walk farther than you can.

    I hope @BenefitsTrainingCo might post more about what count as walking aids,etc.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,010 Disability Gamechanger
    Oh boy. One at a time then:

    1) @markyboy it is incorrect to say people need an aid to qualify. The law doesn’t say that. Nor does the caselaw or the guidance. In practice it depends on the specific activity and impairment. Plenty of people qualify without either e.g. I have sight impaired clients who don’t use a navigation cane or any other aid but who can’t do 20m reliably. 

    2) @Matilda bless you but you’re way off beam. There is literally nothing in the PIP legislation which indicates that it is a test of walking outdoors. There is one piece of caselaw which suggests it is but that concerned a case where the person only had difficulties out of doors so in reality it established little. The DWP guidance does indeed suggest the test is out of doors but the DWP guidance is badly written and often imputes what ministers want the law to say rather then what it actually says. It is also only guidance. It has to be taken account of but there’s no obligation to follow it at all. In this case it is completely disconnected from the law it purports to support. That is precisely why you were asked questions about indoors.

    It’s a matter of time before someone challenges the PIP guidance on this and wins. I expect something like Nyctalopia would be a winner e.g. someone whose night blindness causes them problems in their own home but is fine outdoors in average daylight. 

    3) @Cazann you are quite right. DLA assesses walking ability out of doors. PIP is overall walking ability whether indoors or out. Regardless of the above, a tribunal will always watch you come into and go out of a tribunal room. Depending on the venue some will also see you enter the building although it has to be all 3 together who see you else matters get legally complex. It can also be the case, depending on timings, that you inadvertently enter the building; a toilet or a lift at the same time as a panel member. Finally, whilst it should not be a relevant consideration at all, many clerks report back in advance to the panel as to what they have seen of your walking ability. This is not a policy. It’s more conversational and seen as an aid e.g. if the clerk deduces an appellant will need a seat with arms or a higher seat and so on. 
  • CazannCazann Member Posts: 88 Pioneering
    Hi All.
    Thank you all for your comments and advice.  In my PIP application I put that I can't walk more than 20 mtrs, as I find walking anymore is so painful I use a stick and I only go out in my car to my daughters, who lives in the next street. if I have to go anywhere, my husband takes me.I am in pain just walking. At my one to one asessment, the asessor wrote that I was seen to walk, 10 mtrs holding onto my husbands arm and using my stick, then to walk with just my stick for 5 mtrs. She then put in her report that I drive a manual car so therefore can walk 50 mtrs but no more than 200!  When she observed me walking the 10 mtrs, it was inside thier building and the 5 mtrs was to our car, parked just outside the door. I can't understand her logic on that..what do you think?
    Thank you once again for any advice
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    Assessors exaggerate the distance people can walk, with no evidence to back their claims.  They do this to reduce points awarded!

    My assessor wrote that she watched me walk 16m waiting area to interview room, on a level, carpeted surface, so therefore I must be able to walk 20m - 50m outdoors; a preposterous extrapolation!  Tribunal increased my mobility from standard to enhanced.

    Assessors are notorious for telling lies and tribunals know this.  69% of appeals succeed.
  • markyboymarkyboy Member Posts: 368 Pioneering
    Sorry matilda but wheel chairs do qualify as an aid if you need a wheelchair to go less than 20 metres you will get enhanced rate
  • sleepy1sleepy1 Member Posts: 299 Pioneering
    I use my manual wheelchair as a walking frame around my flat because it is more sturdy and more manoeuvrable than a normal walking frame and I can put things on the seat to transport them.  (Pickfords watch out).

    Having explained this to the assessor she asked me to demonstrate by getting out of my wheelchair and walking across a room less than 4m wide, holding onto the chair.  In her report she was able to calculate that I could walk between 50 and 200 metres either aided or unaided!

    Over the phone a decision maker tried to tell me 200 metres was equal to 2 buses parked back to back........Really?
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    Assessors and decision makers talk absolute garbage which is largely is why 69% of appeals succeed.

    I believe DWP's own estimate is that two bus lengths = 50m.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    Matilda said:
    Assessors exaggerate the distance people can walk, with no evidence to back their claims.  They do this to reduce points awarded!

    My assessor wrote that she watched me walk 16m waiting area to interview room, on a level, carpeted surface, so therefore I must be able to walk 20m - 50m outdoors; a preposterous extrapolation!  Tribunal increased my mobility from standard to enhanced.

    Assessors are notorious for telling lies and tribunals know this.  69% of appeals succeed.

    Like you, I was dropped off right outside the entrance door, then maybe 10 metres to the reception area in 3 stages, then another 10 metres to the room, again in 3 stages. Result - can walk between 50 and 200 metres.
    Submitted a medical report that I had been assessed as only able to walk 5 metres if I am lucky without having to stop for a while. DWP changed the award - less than 20 metres!!
    I would love to see the evidence the assessor had to consider that I could walk up to 200 metres!!

  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    Matilda said:
    Assessors and decision makers talk absolute garbage which is largely is why 69% of appeals succeed.

    I believe DWP's own estimate is that two bus lengths = 50 metres
    Absolute garbage!!  The maximum permissible length of a rigid double-decker bus and coach in the UK is 15.0 metres. In the main the current range on the road varies between 9.5 and 13.3 metres.

    So where the DWP get the figure of 25 metres from I have no idea.
  • sleepy1sleepy1 Member Posts: 299 Pioneering
    Lol.....Who writes these scripts?

    Is the size of a bus now considered a standard unit of measurement  :)  Ironically I live next to a bus station.  If only I could find a long enough tape measure and plan the journey across the road to find out!  Thank goodness for google where I am able to engage with others.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-decker_bus
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    sleepy1 said:
    Lol.....Who writes these scripts?

    Is the size of a bus now considered a standard unit of measurement  :)  Ironically I live next to a bus station.  If only I could find a long enough tape measure and plan the journey across the road to find out!  Thank goodness for google where I am able to engage with others.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-decker_bus

    There is a darn good reason why the bus/coach cannot exceed 15 metres. junctions, bends of the roads and roundabouts only allow that length of vehicle without the bus/coach driver having to go on the opposite side of the road to get the vehicle round a corner and without the back wheels going across the footpath.
  • Billy15Billy15 Member Posts: 25 Connected
    Billy15 2 double decker busses back to back is an estimate of 20mtres as i was a bus driver for 10 years and that was 1 of the questions you were asked in your test
  • sleepy1sleepy1 Member Posts: 299 Pioneering
    Hi Yadnad, your so right.
    Having spent many years in haulage myself I know it would be impossible unless the government decided to invest billions to change the whole infrastructure (even then I doubt it could ever work).  Articulated?

    Somehow DWP think they have more knowledge than Einstein, Newton and all other renowned mathematicians!!!!   Strewth


  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    sleepy1 said:
    Hi Yadnad, your so right.
    Having spent many years in haulage myself I know it would be impossible unless the government decided to invest billions to change the whole infrastructure (even then I doubt it could ever work).  Articulated?

    Somehow DWP think they have more knowledge than Einstein, Newton and all other renowned mathematicians!!!!   Strewth



    I know poor souls - all staff actually believing that a double decker bus is 25 metres!! Put it another way - 4 double decker buses, one behind the other is deemed by the DWP to be the approx. length of a professional football pitch (2 to the halfway line).
  • feirfeir Member Posts: 396 Pioneering
    200 metres isn't far at all though.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    feir said:
    200 metres isn't far at all though.

    It all depends on how the body reacts to trying to put one foot in front of the other. If someone can walk 200 metres, without stopping, not in discomfort at any time, at a good pace and do the return journey then they have no need to claim to have difficulties with mobility.

    In my case 10 metres feels like 200 metres.
  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,010 Disability Gamechanger
    Far too easy to dismiss DWP and others estimates of distance. If I’ve learnt anything over the years it’s that the number of people who can correctly estimate the distance they walk or the distance they’ve just walked is near nil. 
  • feirfeir Member Posts: 396 Pioneering
    edited May 2018
    Yadnad said:
    feir said:
    200 metres isn't far at all though.

    It all depends on how the body reacts to trying to put one foot in front of the other. If someone can walk 200 metres, without stopping, not in discomfort at any time, at a good pace and do the return journey then they have no need to claim to have difficulties with mobility.

    In my case 10 metres feels like 200 metres.
    Dismissing people who can walk that far discounts a lot of disabled people i reckon. I can walk that far and it won't cause me much harm or damage but if i just try to walk 3 times that much then i am in pain for days after and find it hard to stand even. I use aides to help me walk also but i would get 0 points yet i'm pretty much housebound because of my condition, so 200 metres isn't good enough and is way too short. How many people are gonna live 200 metres away from everything they need to get to, to live an independent life? And only have to make one trip and not move about the premises?

    Everything here is at least 3/4 of a mile away from me and this is aprx 1600 metres.i have to get taxis to everywhere local, all i go to are medical appointments. i can't carry my own shopping and have to have it delivered when someone is here. I can't even visit most people i know because they don't have a downstairs toilet and i can't get up stairs. No, their criteria is rubbish and dismisses some disabled people and this is so not good enough.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    Far too easy to dismiss DWP and others estimates of distance. If I’ve learnt anything over the years it’s that the number of people who can correctly estimate the distance they walk or the distance they’ve just walked is near nil. 

    Absolutely Mike, I was guilty as charged in that. I remember telling my GP a few years back that I could walk at least 50 yards before having to stop. This was before  he printed off a copy of the hospital report that stated the maximum as tested, was no more than 10 metres!! Thankfully I included the correct figure in the pip form.

  • mikehughescqmikehughescq Member Posts: 6,010 Disability Gamechanger
    feir said:
    Yadnad said:
    feir said:
    200 metres isn't far at all though.

    It all depends on how the body reacts to trying to put one foot in front of the other. If someone can walk 200 metres, without stopping, not in discomfort at any time, at a good pace and do the return journey then they have no need to claim to have difficulties with mobility.

    In my case 10 metres feels like 200 metres.
    Dismissing people who can walk that far discounts a lot of disabled people i reckon. I can walk that far and it won't cause me much harm or damage but if i just try to walk 3 times that much then i am in pain for days after and find it hard to stand even. I use aides to help me walk also but i would get 0 points yet i'm pretty much housebound because of my condition, so 200 metres isn't good enough and is way too short. How many people are gonna live 200 metres away from everything they need to get to, to live an independent life? And only have to make one trip and not move about the premises?

    Everything here is at least 3/4 of a mile away from me and this is aprx 1600 metres.i have to get taxis to everywhere local, all i go to are medical appointments. i can't carry my own shopping and have to have it delivered when someone is here. I can't even visit most people i know because they don't have a downstairs toilet and i can't get up stairs. No, their criteria is rubbish and dismisses some disabled people and this is so not good enough.
    I think this is largely to do with not quite getting to grips with the PIP regs. Wgat you’re describing is that you can’t do that distance repeatedly. The regs. dint refer to more than once. They refer to repeatedly, which implies more than twice, albeit that DLA caselaw heed that repeatedly did mean more than once. 

    If you can’t do it repeatedly then you can’t do it. What you’re saying is that whilst you can in theory do it repeatedly to do so would leave you unable to walk for the majority of the time. 

    On that basis I’d argue that, far from pick penalising you in any way, you hsve a reasonable argument to score some points on mobility on the basis of repetition and the 50% rule.
  • feirfeir Member Posts: 396 Pioneering
    I could walk 200 meters every day, so long as i go no further than maybe 600 metres and mess myself up and become unable to walk at all (this is the distance i walk at hospital and so know it's about this distance that messes me up, although it doesn't mess me up straight away and there is an interval of several hours before i'm a mess so i can't be sure how far exactly). Walking only tiny and useless distances, being unable to get yourself dressed and feed yourself, and being so mentally unwell that you cannot function are the main criteria for being disabled, and i fail on all of these (apart from mental health now) although i should (imo) get some points for the physical as i do fulfil some of the criteria for the lower points now but when i was eligible for higher points late last year they gave me 0. They will ignore my diagnosis of moderate depression so i will fail on that again but i am going to mention it anyway.

    What i can't do is my own shopping, take care of my home, take care of my son who has learning difficulties and so my ex has had to take on some of my parental duties and has done, go upstairs, stand for very long, sit comfortably, support my own head for long periods and there's nothing they can do for my neck problems, cook for my kids, go out anywhere unless i get a taxi and am able to sit down when i get there and don't have to go up any stairs. Just feel like their criteria says if you can uncomfortably potter about your own house then you need no help with anything and this isn't true.

    I'm still going to apply for PIP again and have the form here for a couple of weeks ready to fill in as i'm mentally doing better this week and have had the proof they needed since a couple of weeks after my rejection letter but since January i have been really unwell mentally, including extreme suicidal thoughts that i found very hard to ignore, and know their rejection letter will be offensive again and probably make me mentally worse again and this is making me not want to send it off but i will do because everything is going to pot here and i'm so sick of not trying and accepting that life should be a struggle and that not getting help is normal. So what if they think i'm not disabled and am able to cope, i'm not coping and something needs to change. Also my consultant contradicts some of what my assessor said so hoping this will help.

    For anyone reading that don't worry about my suicidal thoughts btw, i am not going to act on them despite having made plans as there is no way to kill yourself that isn't painful and no way am i exiting this world in pain. I'm interested in campaigning for legal euthanasia and a pain free death though if anyone has any info on that and it's not even sad that i'd rather be dead, sometimes life isn't worth existing for and i have a degenerative condition and so will get worse and not better and there will come a time where acting on these thoughts will be most definitely in my best interest.






  • WaylayWaylay Member Posts: 922 Pioneering
    The assessor asked me how far it was to the nearest shop (which I occasionally walk to with a housemate, albeit with 2 or 3 rests). I had no idea. My friend google-mapped it, and it said 300m. After the assessment, I google mapped it too. My friend had done it using the route a car would take (he has a car), and my road is one-way. Walking, it's 160m. Either way I should have gotten some points, but I got 0.
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
  • WaylayWaylay Member Posts: 922 Pioneering
    @Matilda Yup, waiting on tribunal now...
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    Good luck, @Waylay.  As you've no doubt heard, 69% of appeals succeed.
  • WaylayWaylay Member Posts: 922 Pioneering
  • CazannCazann Member Posts: 88 Pioneering
    Waylay said:
    The assessor asked me how far it was to the nearest shop (which I occasionally walk to with a housemate, albeit with 2 or 3 rests). I had no idea. My friend google-mapped it, and it said 300m. After the assessment, I google mapped it too. My friend had done it using the route a car would take (he has a car), and my road is one-way. Walking, it's 160m. Either way I should have gotten some points, but I got 0.
    Hi Waylay
    How did you do at your appeal?  I am waiting for a date for mine.
    Cazann
  • WaylayWaylay Member Posts: 922 Pioneering
    @Cazann Sigh. Still waiting.

  • CazannCazann Member Posts: 88 Pioneering
    @Waylay Hi. Have you had your tribunal yet and if so, how did you do? I have mine in 10 days (30th Jan) I am not getting represented but my daughter will be with me. I'm confident one minute and worried the next. I'll let you know how it goes. Take care.
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    edited January 2019
    The criteria are: walking before you have to stop and rest for a few minutes

    up to 20m aided = 12 points

    up to 50m aided = 10 points 

    up to 50m unaided = 8 points 

    You have to emphasise that you have to rest for a few minutes between each micro journey - otherwise assessors, and probably tribunals, will take it that you can cover hundreds of meters without stopping.  Some reasons for stopping are pain or fatigue or unsteadiness.

    If asked for how long, not how far, can you walk say it takes you X seconds or minutes to walk Y meters.  DWP think 45 seconds to walk 20m is very slow walking.  Don't just give a time in isolation because assessors/tribunals might assume you can walk farther than in fact you can.

    If asked how you know you can only walk 20m, for example, before you have to stop, have you ever measured it, say, no, it's an estimate based on experience of distances.  (Very few of us get a tape measure out when we walk).

    Tribunals are independent of DWP so are more reasonable than assessors.  They are there to find out what you can and can't do.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    Matilda said:
    The criteria are: walking before you have to stop and rest for a few minutes

    up to 20m aided = 12 points

    up to 50m aided = 10 points 

    up to 50m unaided = 8 points 

    You have to emphasise that you have to rest for a few minutes between each micro journey - otherwise assessors, and probably tribunals, will take it that you can cover hundreds of meters without stopping.  Some reasons for stopping are pain or fatigue or unsteadiness.

    If asked for how long, not how far, can you walk say it takes you X seconds or minutes to walk Y meters.  DWP think 45 seconds to walk 20m is very slow walking.  Don't just give a time in isolation because assessors/tribunals might assume you can walk farther than in fact you can.

    If asked how you know you can only walk 20m, for example, before you have to stop, have you ever measured it, say, no, it's an estimate based on experience of distances.  (Very few of us get a tape measure out when we walk).

    Tribunals are independent of DWP so are more reasonable than assessors.  They are there to find out what you can and can't do.
    First of all a claimant guessing a distance is no better than what an assessor would do. In fact the assessor has the advantage of knowing the distances before hand of the internal and external layout of the building. 

    If you can think of a modern 3 bed house you would not go too far wrong in saying that the distance from the back to the front is approx. 10 metres - a little longer for older houses.
    So could you walk from the rear of your home to the front, turn round and go back ? If so that is approx. the max for enhanced mobility PIP.

    Stopping during walking has to be reasonable. Short breaks of say 30 secs is not the same as 10 mins after 20 metres. Your medical issues have to be consistent with needing this break.

    As an example I told the assessor that if I had to I could walk a mile. However that distance could only be covered in 10/15 metres segments with a break of a minute or two every time. Such a journey would take at least 2 hours and probably 3 hours.  The assessor wrote that I could walk over 200 metres.

    When the DWP were presented with a report from the spinal unit that said that after being tested on their walking machine I fell off twice after 10/15 metres. The hospital concluded that that was the level of my independent mobility. The DWP changed the 200 metres+ opinion to under 20 metres! Just shows how wrong assessors could be and how they fail to take on board the 'reliability' criteria even though it was pointed out to them.  
  • telscopetelscope Member Posts: 37 Connected
    Tribunals are far different to assessors. I have epilepsy & I can walk. I had my assessment, a mandatory reconsideration & a tribunal to go to. 
    The tribunal was the best part, as I stated that I can walk & I can have a seizure at anytime & anywhere.  
  • WaylayWaylay Member Posts: 922 Pioneering
    @Cazann I won! 11 points daily living, 8 mobility. I should have gotten more, but I was so shattered by the whole year-long thing that I just went with it.

    The panel were really nice, gave me a time out when I needed one, and asked good questions. It was stressful, but not traumatic. I hope yours is similar!

    I had a friend as a representative, and my partner and a friend for support. My friend/rep isn't an expert, just bolshy and good at advocating for people.
  • ColinoColino Member Posts: 19 Listener
    The tribunal asked me how I got to court that day and where we had parked they also asked if i had used the lift or stairs  and also how i was going home.
    hope it helps  
  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    To my surprise tribunal didn't ask how I got there.   But I had submitted a diary setting out my car journeys so they asked a lot about my usual driving.
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    Colino said:
    The tribunal asked me how I got to court that day and where we had parked they also asked if i had used the lift or stairs  and also how i was going home.
    hope it helps  
    Didn't you think of telling them that you had hired a helicopter that put down in the car park? Returning? a quick phone call would see it return to collect you!
  • ColinoColino Member Posts: 19 Listener
    Lol Yadnad 
     tell you the truth spent most my time biting my tongue, had loads I wanted to say 
     
  • CazannCazann Member Posts: 88 Pioneering
    @Waylay and @Colino. I am pleased that you have got a good result from your tribunal's and have got it over with!  It is more than a year since I applied for PIP, after being on DLA for 13 years. Like many, I was turned down and then got only 4 points at MR. I am going with my daughter. She bought me a wheel chair last summer, so we could go on a weekend away, as I haven't been on holiday for over 10 years. I have difficulty walking more than a few yards, so I will be using the wheel chair to go to the tribunal, as I don't know how far I will have to walk, when I get there. But I think that I will walk into the tribunal room. as I want to prove that my walking isn't good. Thanks for your advice.
    I will post on here after my tribunal next week xx
  • Pippa_AlumniPippa_Alumni Scope alumni Posts: 5,851 Disability Gamechanger
    Wishing you all the best for your tribunal, @Cazann!
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    Cazann said:
    @Waylay and @Colino. I am pleased that you have got a good result from your tribunal's and have got it over with!  It is more than a year since I applied for PIP, after being on DLA for 13 years. Like many, I was turned down and then got only 4 points at MR. I am going with my daughter. She bought me a wheel chair last summer, so we could go on a weekend away, as I haven't been on holiday for over 10 years. I have difficulty walking more than a few yards, so I will be using the wheel chair to go to the tribunal, as I don't know how far I will have to walk, when I get there. But I think that I will walk into the tribunal room. as I want to prove that my walking isn't good. Thanks for your advice.
    I will post on here after my tribunal next week xx
    Using a wheelchair that you have bought presumably without having a wheelchair assessment could raise problems. 
    It is a well known fact that some claimants buy them off Ebay purely to show the Tribunal/assessor that they need it. Questions could be asked if the wheelchair is actually needed if you haven't had that assessment.
  • CazannCazann Member Posts: 88 Pioneering
    Yadnad said:
    Cazann said:
    @Waylay and @Colino. I am pleased that you have got a good result from your tribunal's and have got it over with!  It is more than a year since I applied for PIP, after being on DLA for 13 years. Like many, I was turned down and then got only 4 points at MR. I am going with my daughter. She bought me a wheel chair last summer, so we could go on a weekend away, as I haven't been on holiday for over 10 years. I have difficulty walking more than a few yards, so I will be using the wheel chair to go to the tribunal, as I don't know how far I will have to walk, when I get there. But I think that I will walk into the tribunal room. as I want to prove that my walking isn't good. Thanks for your advice.
    I will post on here after my tribunal next week xx
    Using a wheelchair that you have bought presumably without having a wheelchair assessment could raise problems. 
    It is a well known fact that some claimants buy them off Ebay purely to show the Tribunal/assessor that they need it. Questions could be asked if the wheelchair is actually needed if you haven't had that assessment.
    Hi Yadnad
    Why would I need an assassment to use a wheelchair. I understand that some people would use a wheelchair to pretent that they are worse than they really are but that's not me. My daughter bought it for me last summer, so I could go out on a weekend trip and for day's out. I know the venue (Law courts) is a massive building to walk through and I couldn't do it. My daughter has already wrote to the tribunal, telling them that I have the wheelchair, so why would it be a problem, or do you know something that we don't?. Appreciate the advice.
    Thanks.
  • CazannCazann Member Posts: 88 Pioneering
    Wishing you all the best for your tribunal, @Cazann!
    Thank you @Pippa_Scope
  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    Cazann said:
    Yadnad said:
    Cazann said:
    @Waylay and @Colino. I am pleased that you have got a good result from your tribunal's and have got it over with!  It is more than a year since I applied for PIP, after being on DLA for 13 years. Like many, I was turned down and then got only 4 points at MR. I am going with my daughter. She bought me a wheel chair last summer, so we could go on a weekend away, as I haven't been on holiday for over 10 years. I have difficulty walking more than a few yards, so I will be using the wheel chair to go to the tribunal, as I don't know how far I will have to walk, when I get there. But I think that I will walk into the tribunal room. as I want to prove that my walking isn't good. Thanks for your advice.
    I will post on here after my tribunal next week xx
    Using a wheelchair that you have bought presumably without having a wheelchair assessment could raise problems. 
    It is a well known fact that some claimants buy them off Ebay purely to show the Tribunal/assessor that they need it. Questions could be asked if the wheelchair is actually needed if you haven't had that assessment.
    Hi Yadnad
    Why would I need an assassment to use a wheelchair. I understand that some people would use a wheelchair to pretent that they are worse than they really are but that's not me. My daughter bought it for me last summer, so I could go out on a weekend trip and for day's out. I know the venue (Law courts) is a massive building to walk through and I couldn't do it. My daughter has already wrote to the tribunal, telling them that I have the wheelchair, so why would it be a problem, or do you know something that we don't?. Appreciate the advice.
    Thanks.
    Not having had a wheelchair assessment you would have to satisfy the Tribunal that it was purchased out of need and not out of choice.
    As you say, there are some that do buy them hoping to show to the Tribunal that they are far worse than they really are - you would be surprised of the antics that some people would get up to. I've even known claimants to buy two hearing aids off Ebay to show that they have difficulties with hearing.
  • CazannCazann Member Posts: 88 Pioneering
    Thank you for the advice. I don't know what you mean about an assessment for a wheelchair.I didn't know I had to be assessed to have one!  I had been on DLA indefinitely for 13 years but I, along with thousands of others had to apply for PIP. I was turned down, had a face to face assessment and MR= 4 points.
    I am about to go for my tribunal appeal, next week.
    I haven't had a holiday for over 10 years, had one day out last year and my daughter bought me a new wheelchair and booked a weekend away.
    Without the wheelchair I wouldn't have gone on that weekend and as for the day out, I would have been sat in the car, or on a bench looking at my grandchildren playing on the beach, without me.
    My tribunal is at the Law Courts and it's a very big building, with long corridor's.   Maybe they put these large venue's on for PIP appeals to try to catch people out but there is no way that I can walk it. My daughter will be pushing me into the building and upto the waiting room but I will walk to the tribunal room, if possible.
    I cannot see any other way.
    Thanks for your comments.

  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    When I had my appeal I wrote to the Clerk and asked for my Hearing to be moved to an accessible venue.  Clerk wrote back to say that PIP Hearings were heard on the ground floor of venue already allocated.  Only a few yards' walking was required.  My letter was included in the bundle and this would have supported my case.  All PIP appeals venues should be accessible including not much walking required.  You can phone the Clerk to ask about accessibility and distances.
  • CazannCazann Member Posts: 88 Pioneering
    Matilda said:
    When I had my appeal I wrote to the Clerk and asked for my Hearing to be moved to an accessible venue.  Clerk wrote back to say that PIP Hearings were heard on the ground floor of venue already allocated.  Only a few yards' walking was required.  My letter was included in the bundle and this would have supported my case.  All PIP appeals venues should be accessible including not much walking required.  You can phone the Clerk to ask about accessibility and distances.
    Hi Matilda Thank you for your input. In the letter from the tribunal, it states that the tribunal will be at the Law Courts and the nearest car park is about half a mile away. My daughter is taking me and will have to drop me off and park up. As I said to Yadnad, the court is a large building with long corridors. When you have waited over a year for the tribunal date, I didn't want to haggle about the venue. We will have to get there with plenty of time to spare...and worry!

  • MatildaMatilda Member Posts: 2,616 Disability Gamechanger
    We must all decide for ourselves.  Mine was a simple request to the tribunal service, not a 'haggle'.  I was trying to be helpful and your reply is rude.
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    edited January 2019
    I don't see any recent rude reply here. I see a thank you but nothing rude. It can very often be difficult to read text speak and sometimes a comment can come across as being rude, when in fact it's not.

    As for "haggling" i do agree that it's not about this. A simple request is most likely all it will take.
    Proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice I have given to members here on the community.
  • CazannCazann Member Posts: 88 Pioneering
    Matilda said:
    We must all decide for ourselves.  Mine was a simple request to the tribunal service, not a 'haggle'.  I was trying to be helpful and your reply is rude.
    Hi Matilda. I'm sorry if you thought that I was rude but it wasn't that at all.
    I only said that I didn't want to haggle about the venue because I had only just noticed where the car park was, in relation to the venue. I thought that it was too late to change things and thought that I would have had a problem on my hands getting it changed at such short notice.
    No way would I have been rude to you, or anyone who was kind enough to give advice. I do appreciate any advice...even Yadnads. :D
    Thank you all. xxx
  • CazannCazann Member Posts: 88 Pioneering
    I don't see any recent rude reply here. I see a thank you but nothing rude. It can very often be difficult to read text speak and sometimes a comment can come across as being rude, when in fact it's not.

    As for "haggling" i do agree that it's not about this. A simple request is most likely all it will take.
    Thank you Poppy. xx
  • WaylayWaylay Member Posts: 922 Pioneering
  • CazannCazann Member Posts: 88 Pioneering
    Waylay said:
    How did it go, @Cazann ?

    Hi Waylay.
    I had my tribunal adjourned until they can get more evidence ie: Medical evidence, even though I sent in all that my doctor had sent me. Also they wanted my old DLA award papers from 2006. I didn't know that they would want those. I had to sign a letter so they could obtain them and now will have to wait for another tribunal date. I sent it back by recorded delivery
    I just hope that it's not a long wait.
    xx

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