Does anyone know what an MSO or an MSE is?

sleepy1

Just reading back through my PIP assessment to write out my Mandatory Reconsideration, in most of the descriptors it refers to things like revealed by the MSO or as evidenced by the MSE.

One example:
"Reported fatigue does fit however with her diagnosis and the MSE shows she looked tired.  Typical day shows difficulty due to effort involved which could be managed with aids"

Would love to know what aids are available to help someone with CFS

WorksopChris

The "MS" is musculoskeletal system, the "E" is probably examination depending on the context, its used when talking about the claimants ability to move, walk, reach, etc.

From a benefits forum in June 2015.

Not sure on mse.
MSO: muscular skeleton observation
Hope this helps

From another benefits forum in July 2015.

I hope the above assists ?

poppy123456

MSE is musculoskeletal examination.

atlas46

Hi

MSE - Medical Services Examination.

MSO - Medical Services Observations.

Medical Services is the term used by DWP to use for Atos and Capita, who carry out PIP assessmennts.

Please note the observations, are the "informal" ones carried out by the assessor, without telling the claimant.

Let us know if this helps.

sleepy1

Hi @WorksopChris, thanks for your reply Chris.  You were right about the MSO musculor skeletal observation, although apparently they now prefer to call it an overview rather than observation!

MSE, stands for Mental State Examination.  From a little research it seems assessors often use these terms as reference in their reports when doing a check list (tick box) yet there is no official guidelines/laws or anything to suggest why they should be using them.

My assessor was an occupational therepest so I don't see how that would qualify them to give a professional opinion about my mental state but this is just part of what they wrote in my MSE:

APPEARANCE
Looked well, looked tired, unkempt, was not  tremulous, casually dressed, no increased sweating.
..................................................................................................................................
So you can look well but tired and unkempt at the same time! 
Casually dressed lol my tuxedo was at the dry cleaners.  No increased sweating,  do they measure that before during and after........bonkers, some of these so called health professionals should try doing a self test to examine their own mental state. 

sleepy1

Hi @poppy123456 and @atlas46, just seen your replies, thanks.  DWP have confirmed to me today that MSE is a Mental State Examination and having read my assessment (a page I missed) it does actually state that.

As I said in my previous post (kind of) there is no justification why decision makers should be making any decisions using either of these terms being made by HCP's without any statutory consultation or approval and from what I have read they have NOTHING to back any of that tripe up

Yadnad

sleepy1 said:

Hi @WorksopChris, thanks for your reply Chris.  You were right about the MSO musculor skeletal observation, although apparently they now prefer to call it an overview rather than observation!

MSE, stands for Mental State Examination.  From a little research it seems assessors often use these terms as reference in their reports when doing a check list (tick box) yet there is no official guidelines/laws or anything to suggest why they should be using them.

My assessor was an occupational therepest so I don't see how that would qualify them to give a professional opinion about my mental state but this is just part of what they wrote in my MSE:

APPEARANCE
Looked well, looked tired, unkempt, was not  tremulous, casually dressed, no increased sweating.
..................................................................................................................................
So you can look well but tired and unkempt at the same time! 
Casually dressed lol my tuxedo was at the dry cleaners.  No increased sweating,  do they measure that before during and after........bonkers, some of these so called health professionals should try doing a self test to examine their own mental state. 

Hi the MSE that the assessor attempts is a very simplified version of a MSE that takes place with a psychiatrist/psychologist. I have attached a reference to this type of test - see pages 15 to 24.

http://www.bristol.ac.uk/media-library/sites/medical-school/migrated/documents/resourcepack.pdf

There are other tests that will give insight into how a person feels and thinks. There are also memory tests but these take up to two days to complete.

Suffice it to say that although I am certainly not an expert in this testing what I can say that I have been through them all over a period of 17 years and when locked up under section. The results of them saw me medicated, quite heavily for a number of years on a cocktail of anti depressants, anti psychotics all washed down with a large dose of Lithium.

The assessor is actually 'playing' at being an expert as such an evaluation must be carried out by a professionally qualified person for it to mean anything.
 

sleepy1

Thank you so much for that link Yadnad and your comments, very interesting.  I  hope you have now recovered from the onslaught of medication and the trauma you suffered.

I think you are right in saying the assessor is actually playing at being an expert, which is disgraceful for someone who is not qualified in that field.  Is this another new ploy I wonder between the DWP and Atos to justify removing PIP from people who need it?