PIP, DLA and AA
If this is your first visit, check out the community guide. You will have to Join us or Sign in before you can post.

Does anyone know what an MSO or an MSE is?

sleepy1sleepy1 Member Posts: 299 Pioneering
Just reading back through my PIP assessment to write out my Mandatory Reconsideration, in most of the descriptors it refers to things like revealed by the MSO or as evidenced by the MSE.

One example:
"Reported fatigue does fit however with her diagnosis and the MSE shows she looked tired.  Typical day shows difficulty due to effort involved which could be managed with aids"

Would love to know what aids are available to help someone with CFS

Replies

  • WorksopChrisWorksopChris Member Posts: 28 Connected
    The "MS" is musculoskeletal system, the "E" is probably examination depending on the context, its used when talking about the claimants ability to move, walk, reach, etc.


    From a benefits forum in June 2015.

    Not sure on mse.
    MSO: muscular skeleton observation
    Hope this helps


    From another benefits forum in July 2015.

    I hope the above assists ?
  • poppy123456poppy123456 Member Posts: 22,218 Disability Gamechanger
    MSE is musculoskeletal examination.
    Community champion and proud winner of the 2019 empowering others award. This award was given for supporting disabled people and their families for the benefit advice i have given to members here on the community.
  • atlas46atlas46 Member Posts: 827 Pioneering
    Hi

    MSE - Medical Services Examination.

    MSO - Medical Services Observations.

    Medical Services is the term used by DWP to use for Atos and Capita, who carry out PIP assessmennts.

    Please note the observations, are the "informal" ones carried out by the assessor, without telling the claimant.

    Let us know if this helps.
  • sleepy1sleepy1 Member Posts: 299 Pioneering
    Hi @WorksopChris, thanks for your reply Chris.  You were right about the MSO musculor skeletal observation, although apparently they now prefer to call it an overview rather than observation!

    MSE, stands for Mental State Examination.  From a little research it seems assessors often use these terms as reference in their reports when doing a check list (tick box) yet there is no official guidelines/laws or anything to suggest why they should be using them.

    My assessor was an occupational therepest so I don't see how that would qualify them to give a professional opinion about my mental state but this is just part of what they wrote in my MSE:

    APPEARANCE
    Looked well, looked tired, unkempt, was not  tremulous, casually dressed, no increased sweating.
    ..................................................................................................................................
    So you can look well but tired and unkempt at the same time! 
    Casually dressed lol my tuxedo was at the dry cleaners.  No increased sweating,  do they measure that before during and after........bonkers, some of these so called health professionals should try doing a self test to examine their own mental state. 


  • sleepy1sleepy1 Member Posts: 299 Pioneering
    Hi @poppy123456 and @atlas46, just seen your replies, thanks.  DWP have confirmed to me today that MSE is a Mental State Examination and having read my assessment (a page I missed) it does actually state that.

    As I said in my previous post (kind of) there is no justification why decision makers should be making any decisions using either of these terms being made by HCP's without any statutory consultation or approval and from what I have read they have NOTHING to back any of that tripe up

  • YadnadYadnad Posts: 2,856 Member
    sleepy1 said:
    Hi @WorksopChris, thanks for your reply Chris.  You were right about the MSO musculor skeletal observation, although apparently they now prefer to call it an overview rather than observation!

    MSE, stands for Mental State Examination.  From a little research it seems assessors often use these terms as reference in their reports when doing a check list (tick box) yet there is no official guidelines/laws or anything to suggest why they should be using them.

    My assessor was an occupational therepest so I don't see how that would qualify them to give a professional opinion about my mental state but this is just part of what they wrote in my MSE:

    APPEARANCE
    Looked well, looked tired, unkempt, was not  tremulous, casually dressed, no increased sweating.
    ..................................................................................................................................
    So you can look well but tired and unkempt at the same time! 
    Casually dressed lol my tuxedo was at the dry cleaners.  No increased sweating,  do they measure that before during and after........bonkers, some of these so called health professionals should try doing a self test to examine their own mental state. 



    Hi the MSE that the assessor attempts is a very simplified version of a MSE that takes place with a psychiatrist/psychologist. I have attached a reference to this type of test - see pages 15 to 24.

    http://www.bristol.ac.uk/media-library/sites/medical-school/migrated/documents/resourcepack.pdf

    There are other tests that will give insight into how a person feels and thinks. There are also memory tests but these take up to two days to complete.

    Suffice it to say that although I am certainly not an expert in this testing what I can say that I have been through them all over a period of 17 years and when locked up under section. The results of them saw me medicated, quite heavily for a number of years on a cocktail of anti depressants, anti psychotics all washed down with a large dose of Lithium.

    The assessor is actually 'playing' at being an expert as such an evaluation must be carried out by a professionally qualified person for it to mean anything.
     
  • sleepy1sleepy1 Member Posts: 299 Pioneering
    Thank you so much for that link Yadnad and your comments, very interesting.  I  hope you have now recovered from the onslaught of medication and the trauma you suffered.

    I think you are right in saying the assessor is actually playing at being an expert, which is disgraceful for someone who is not qualified in that field.  Is this another new ploy I wonder between the DWP and Atos to justify removing PIP from people who need it?
Sign in or join us to comment.